My Assistant
Phoenix Final Descent Trajectory |
May 28 2008, 05:27 PM
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#1
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![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1098 Joined: 19-February 05 From: Close to Meudon Observatory in France Member No.: 172 |
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May 28 2008, 06:30 PM
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#2
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 89 Joined: 27-August 05 From: Eccentric Mars orbit Member No.: 477 |
Actually this is about what I expect. The powered descent is not random. The lander specifically looked at its radar to see which way it was travelling across the surface. From how the parachute is blown, I would say that it is basically from due north. Having measured that, after it separated, it purposely flew upwind (to the north) a ways as parachute avoidance, then tipped back over the other way to slow down its horizontal velocity and land. It flew straight upwind because it was supposed to.
There is a PDF slide presentation posted here which shows the details of this "backshell avoidance maneuver". I guess what I'm saying is that I think your interpretation is plausible. |
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May 29 2008, 03:18 AM
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#3
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 340 Joined: 11-April 08 From: Sydney, Australia Member No.: 4093 |
There is a PDF slide presentation posted here which shows the details of this "backshell avoidance maneuver". As a non-engineer, I just love the engineering English [engenglish???] (from above document): QUOTE ... there is an increased probability the backshell/parachute will recontact the lander ... Mmm yeah, recontactI was actually hoping to include more of these events (BAM. gravity turn, alignment etc) into my real-time simulation but could not get the necessary information. Maybe next time. -------------------- |
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May 29 2008, 04:16 PM
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#4
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Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1018 Joined: 29-November 05 From: Seattle, WA, USA Member No.: 590 |
As a non-engineer, I just love the engineering English [engenglish???] As an engineer and a linguist, I'd call that jargon, and what I find cool is that it follows its own domain-dependent rules. Consider how NASA uses the word "nominal." I like this one because I'm still puzzling over how they got "nominal" to mean "good," when it usually means "in name only." So if I said, "the orbiter is nominally functioning," that means that despite appearances to the contrary, I don't think it's working correctly, BUT, if I say "the orbiter is functioning nominally," that means there are no known problems, and I think it's working fine. Only the second is the "correct" way to use "nominal" when talking about space probes, and if you misuse it, you identify yourself as an outsider. As for "recontact," I'd guess that arises from the fact that you can't say "contact," since these things are in contact to begin with. It crisply captures the idea of "to collide with, at any speed, but after separation." Standard English lacks such a term, since the circumstance is uncommon in daily life. (We'll ignore the fact that lots of people still think it's a solecism to use "contact" as a verb.) :-) --Greg |
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May 29 2008, 08:46 PM
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#5
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 340 Joined: 11-April 08 From: Sydney, Australia Member No.: 4093 |
As for "recontact," ... It crisply captures the idea of "to collide with, at any speed, but after separation." No doubt it is very precise language. Just imagine the press conference if the backshell did actually "recontact" with the lander on the ground! Official: Ahm we've had an anomaly during landing as the backshell deviated from its nominal trajectory and recontacted the lander on the ground. We're currently working on the issue Bewildered reporter: Huh, you mean the backshell crashed into the lander on the ground? Official: It seems that an unplanned recontact was made and we're working the problem. We will update you during the next press conference (which I hope I wont have to attend ...) -------------------- |
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vikingmars Phoenix Final Descent Trajectory May 28 2008, 05:27 PM
bgarlick Is it possible that what you are seeing is wind di... May 28 2008, 05:38 PM
fredk I'm not convinced - there are comparable dark ... May 28 2008, 05:49 PM
bcory Also one must consider at what swing angle the dec... May 28 2008, 05:55 PM
kenny Phoenix was of course programmed to thrust away fr... May 28 2008, 06:02 PM
MahFL Yes Phoenix was programmed to fly away. Mind you I... May 28 2008, 06:05 PM
ugordan Indeed. I was also surprised how close to the heat... May 28 2008, 06:19 PM
MahFL Then again the atmosphere is very very thin and al... May 28 2008, 06:25 PM
Adonis QUOTE (ugordan @ May 28 2008, 08:19 PM) I... May 29 2008, 06:58 PM
vikingmars OK, good points. Maybe I'm wrong then : let... May 28 2008, 06:17 PM
AndyG engenglish???
...Eng2lish?
Andy May 29 2008, 09:09 AM
mhall Engl-ish ? May 29 2008, 11:57 AM
dmuller Building on VikingMars' work, assumed wind (st... May 30 2008, 09:06 AM
ugordan Dmuller, doesn't that north vector contradict ... May 30 2008, 10:34 AM
dmuller QUOTE (ugordan @ May 30 2008, 08:34 PM) D... May 30 2008, 11:16 AM
dilo Agree, Daniel. I reached same conclusions looking ... May 30 2008, 09:12 PM
djellison The vehicle intentionally rotated during terminal ... May 30 2008, 10:39 AM
ugordan Quite. If anything, I'd say north is about 12 ... May 30 2008, 10:46 AM
Adonis Is anywhere information about the final landing ch... May 31 2008, 04:05 PM
MahFL The project manager said it would take several mon... May 31 2008, 04:19 PM
ahecht There is an updated version of the EDL movie that ... Jun 13 2008, 05:00 PM
cndwrld MEX Failed To Image The Descent
I'm not sure ... Jul 9 2008, 12:46 PM
1101001 The MRO team has given the Phoenix-on-parachute pi... Jul 9 2008, 10:05 PM
Pertinax Kudos again to the MRO team and a Mars bar to T-Ma... Jul 9 2008, 10:58 PM
jmknapp With the imaging by HIRISE, is there a definitive ... Jul 9 2008, 11:18 PM
Pertinax QUOTE (jmknapp @ Jul 9 2008, 07:18 PM) Wi... Jul 9 2008, 11:59 PM
Juramike QUOTE (Pertinax @ Jul 9 2008, 07:59 PM) A... Jul 10 2008, 03:44 AM
jmknapp QUOTE (Juramike @ Jul 9 2008, 11:44 PM) I... Jul 10 2008, 10:13 AM
Pertinax QUOTE (Juramike @ Jul 9 2008, 11:44 PM) I... Jul 10 2008, 06:09 PM
akuo The position was already reported in an earlier po... Jul 10 2008, 10:26 AM
jmknapp QUOTE (akuo @ Jul 10 2008, 06:26 AM) The ... Jul 10 2008, 11:00 AM
edstrick At approximately 0 km elevation, the average press... Jul 10 2008, 10:59 AM
akuo Works for me. I guess this is another way to put i... Jul 10 2008, 11:08 AM
jmknapp Hmmm... still don't see it. Anyway, the locati... Jul 10 2008, 01:33 PM
kwan3217 I just did my hourly check of the spice kernels at... Jul 30 2008, 04:02 PM
dmuller QUOTE (kwan3217 @ Jul 31 2008, 02:02 AM) ... Jul 31 2008, 12:02 AM

jmknapp QUOTE (dmuller @ Jul 30 2008, 08:02 PM) p... Jul 31 2008, 01:24 AM
gallen_53 QUOTE (kwan3217 @ Jul 30 2008, 04:02 PM) ... Jul 31 2008, 02:15 AM
gallen_53 Hold on, I just found the NAIF website at http://n... Jul 31 2008, 02:22 AM
kwan3217 I use the NAIF spice toolkit and IDL, but the one ... Jul 31 2008, 04:07 AM
gallen_53 Thank you. I'll try it in the morning. Do yo... Jul 31 2008, 06:35 AM
kwan3217 QUOTE (gallen_53 @ Jul 31 2008, 12:35 AM)... Jul 31 2008, 04:26 PM
djellison If someone can convert these into CSV's or som... Jul 31 2008, 07:51 AM
jmknapp QUOTE (djellison @ Jul 31 2008, 02:51 AM)... Jul 31 2008, 11:07 AM
gallen_53 QUOTE (jmknapp @ Jul 31 2008, 12:07 PM) H... Jul 31 2008, 05:43 PM
djellison Awesome - I'll have fun with that. Is this al... Jul 31 2008, 11:58 AM
jmknapp QUOTE (djellison @ Jul 31 2008, 07:58 AM)... Jul 31 2008, 03:01 PM
Juramike Thank you. That graph is so cool...
I think I ju... Jul 31 2008, 04:56 PM
djellison Oh wow - that IS good stuff....
For excel-monkeys... Jul 31 2008, 05:14 PM
jmknapp QUOTE (djellison @ Jul 31 2008, 12:14 PM)... Jul 31 2008, 05:48 PM
djellison QUOTE (jmknapp @ Jul 31 2008, 06:48 PM) 9... Jul 31 2008, 05:49 PM
kwan3217 Is there a good way to get the actual orientation ... Jul 31 2008, 05:26 PM
elakdawalla Goody goody goody....keep the awesome graphs comin... Jul 31 2008, 06:17 PM
kwan3217 On the CSVs with velocity, make sure you specify t... Jul 31 2008, 06:27 PM
fredk QUOTE (kwan3217 @ Jul 31 2008, 06:27 PM) ... Jul 31 2008, 07:25 PM
Juramike From the parachute deployment, the tether seems to... Jul 31 2008, 06:42 PM
CosmicRocker I'm a bit out of my element in this thread, bu... Aug 1 2008, 05:48 AM
jmknapp QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Aug 1 2008, 12:48 A... Aug 1 2008, 12:17 PM
mcaplinger QUOTE (jmknapp @ Aug 1 2008, 04:17 AM) Fo... Aug 1 2008, 02:12 PM
jmknapp QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Aug 1 2008, 09:12 AM)... Aug 1 2008, 05:05 PM
mcaplinger QUOTE (jmknapp @ Aug 1 2008, 09:05 AM) Ju... Aug 1 2008, 09:02 PM
djellison The joys of 'plot' - a freeware app for OS... Aug 1 2008, 09:36 AM
Ant103 I have made a KMZ file to see what it look in 3D b... Aug 1 2008, 09:46 AM
jmknapp QUOTE (Ant103 @ Aug 1 2008, 04:46 AM) I h... Aug 1 2008, 12:40 PM
djellison What about cheating - just add 2.5k to every alt v... Aug 1 2008, 09:50 AM
Ant103 Yes, but how? There are a huge quantity of numbers... Aug 1 2008, 10:01 AM
djellison Last 55s or so of landing.
Altitude on black line... Aug 1 2008, 12:18 PM
djellison FWIW , Excel '08 on my Mac can open the CSV In... Aug 1 2008, 01:41 PM
nprev I was kind of curious about that altitude data. Is... Aug 1 2008, 01:50 PM
jmknapp QUOTE (nprev @ Aug 1 2008, 08:50 AM) I wa... Aug 1 2008, 04:50 PM
Ant103 jmknapp : thanks.
Your updated file is great, but,... Aug 1 2008, 03:01 PM
jmknapp QUOTE (Ant103 @ Aug 1 2008, 10:01 AM) jmk... Aug 1 2008, 04:35 PM
dmuller Again without having looked at the files, I recall... Aug 1 2008, 05:08 PM
djellison A few close-ups of the accel during deployments et... Aug 3 2008, 07:47 PM
jmknapp QUOTE (djellison @ Aug 3 2008, 02:47 PM) ... Aug 3 2008, 08:39 PM

djellison QUOTE (jmknapp @ Aug 3 2008, 09:39 PM) We... Aug 3 2008, 09:31 PM
dmuller QUOTE (djellison @ Aug 4 2008, 05:47 AM) ... Aug 4 2008, 04:24 AM

climber QUOTE (dmuller @ Aug 4 2008, 06:24 AM) I ... Aug 4 2008, 12:33 PM

ilbasso QUOTE (climber @ Aug 4 2008, 08:33 AM) No... Aug 4 2008, 12:44 PM

djellison Yeah - the heatshield would have been quite a lot ... Aug 4 2008, 01:27 PM
Oersted QUOTE (djellison @ Aug 3 2008, 09:47 PM) ... Aug 4 2008, 09:03 AM
Skyrunner QUOTE (Oersted @ Aug 4 2008, 11:03 AM) Wo... Aug 4 2008, 10:15 AM
Ant103 QUOTE (jmknapp @ Aug 1 2008, 06:35 PM) OK... Aug 4 2008, 10:24 AM
djellison Now that would be interesting. Ditto the exact mom... Aug 4 2008, 10:54 AM
dmuller If anybody is creating a very detailed timeline of... Aug 4 2008, 11:14 AM
jmknapp Well, the three legs didn't touch down at the ... Aug 4 2008, 01:33 PM
kwan3217 More CSV goodness, this time rotation matrices
As... Aug 4 2008, 02:49 PM
kwan3217 This one is in IAU Mars, which rotates with the su... Aug 4 2008, 02:53 PM
jmknapp QUOTE (kwan3217 @ Aug 4 2008, 09:53 AM) 2... Aug 4 2008, 04:53 PM
jamescanvin QUOTE (jmknapp @ Aug 4 2008, 05:53 PM) An... Aug 4 2008, 05:09 PM
Ant103 It's hard to find it and deduce it by seeing g... Aug 4 2008, 03:34 PM
kwan3217 QUOTE (Ant103 @ Aug 4 2008, 08:34 AM) It... Aug 4 2008, 03:50 PM
dmuller I agree with earlier suggestions that the heatshie... Aug 4 2008, 03:35 PM
Ant103 Yes, I've seen it. But, the timeline is show a... Aug 4 2008, 04:01 PM
jamescanvin Ant, in this post the x-axis is given in time past... Aug 4 2008, 04:16 PM
kwan3217 QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Aug 4 2008, 09:16 AM... Aug 4 2008, 05:00 PM![]() ![]() |
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