[X] My Assistant

[Guest_Oersted_*]

Rob Manning of EDL fame wrote this in another thread, which was closed, so I couldn't reply in there. Anyway, I think that this image surely deserves a thread of its own.

Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good. When my LMA friends, Wayne, Tim P and Tim G suggested that I seriously look into taking the Phoenix descent image, I had to push it. They were right on many levels. I am embarrassed to say that I never once looked into what we might see in the background as MRO/HiRISE scanned over the landing ellipse. We had the viewing geometry at our figure tips but we did not look. In fact we did not look at the wide shot with Heimdall in the background until late on Sol 1. I saw the image late yesterday and, like many people who see it the first time, I though it was a fake. A couple of minutes later I had it on my laptop in an email attachment from the HiRISE team. I had been so focused on whether the image would reveal sufficient parachute fault data (and earlier on whether it would result in a risk to MRO's UHF data collection during entry) that I failed to imagine the big picture. Maybe I couldn't.

Rob, it will become one of the signature images of space exploration.

Up there with
Apollo 8 Earthrise,
The Pillars of Creation, and
Pantheon, Earth and Moon.
...(just kidding about the last one, I took it of the oculus of the Pantheon in Rome )

What a wonderful story this is. Despite the meticulous planning that went into the HiRise shot, despite the effort of tracking, slewing, yawing and whatnot of the MRO, despite all of that, serendipity took you all on a crazy roller-coaster ride of discovery and threw in this awe-inspiring background by complete chance!

Part of what defines a great photo is the framing. And what do you know: ALL of Heimdal crater is included in the shot! - How perfect is that? - Had it been cropped, the image would still have been fantastic, just for the engineering effort that went into it and for capturing Phoenix. With the whole crater included it moves from engineering excellence to a Work of Art. Perfect framing, and perfect 16:9 aspect ratio for that Hi-definition viewing experience . It is an image that will make for great big-size poster art, so that it won't be marred by the close-up box in the corner, which must go away, just for the sake of beauty.

Part of what defines a great photo is timing, and as a result of that, composition. Henri Cartier-Bresson was the acknowledged master ("Man Jumping Over Puddle"). Again, you guys painstakingly did all you could to assure that HiRise would capture the right instant. But AGAIN serendipity totally took over and delivered perfect composition! - Little Phoenix could NOT have been placed better against the backdrop of the crater: with the crater's edge drawing an ellipse, the lander is almost exactly in the left-most focus point, with an uncluttered background and in perfect counterpoint to the more feature-rich right-side of the crater bowl.

In my country we have a saying that goes more or less like this: you have to strive for it, if you want to get lucky. The group behind "Phoenix over Heimdall crater" certainly got lucky, but you ONLY got lucky because you strived for this shot. You worked hard and intelligently, and for that Mother Nature rewarded you MORE than handsomely.

This picture will be there when we are all gone (my take on how to present it):



Poster-size version here

[As old as Voyage...]

It is a truley breathtaking image and composition.

Reminds me of Lunar Orbiter frame 162 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/lunarorbiter/frame/?2162

Another image whose beauty is mostly fortuitous.

Perhaps Phoenix, Backshell and Parachute against Heimdall will be the 'Picture of the century' for our time.

[kenny]

Agreed, it is an utterly iconic image.

However, the extremely high definition, large image size and miniature nature of the spacecraft image against the enormity of the crater, does raise portrayal issues. Unlike Apollo 8 moonrise, put the Phoenix image in a magazine full page spread, cropped to the width of Heimdall plus a bit more, and the average reader won't see the spacecraft. Most of us still haven't seen it without the blown-up sub-image showing the chute in the corner. Its scale is most unlike any other iconic space image -- if you want to show the enormous context of the whole of Heimdall.

So how this image will be shown in future, to best display its awesomeness, is a real issue. Maybe an entire wall in the Air & Space Museum?

[As old as Voyage...]

Blown up to huge proportions it would be stunning.

I think the image could pose reproduction problems in print but overall the small size and apparent fragility of the descending spacecraft really compliments the yawning maw of Heimdall.

Its like when you look at the famous Apollo 17 image of Jack Schmitt with the Split Rock on the South Massif, think its amazing and then spy the tiny glint of Lunar Module Challenger sitting lonely out on the valley floor.

Gives an image such perspective.

[Guest_Oersted_*]

It is a particuliarity about the image that the "center of interest" is utterly small, but I prefer to think of it as a strength rather than a problem. It tells a story about the small size of the man-made object vs. the enormity of an entire planet. What a way to visualize that!

I would think that a 300dpi glossy magazine spread would be sufficient to show the image without a box. There's practically no detail to Phoenix even in full-size, so not much is lost when it is just apparent as two small, spindly dots. Present-day computer screens don't hack it, that's for sure, but future screens might.

No, what this image is made for is poster art: a huge big wonderful crater, and then this little white smudge that tells such a wondrous story.

We have to get rid of the abomination of the blow-up box, that is for sure. It is good engineering, but not good art I'm sure the image wizards here on UMSF can do something nice to the image, as Astrosurf has already done. If you really can't just show the original image for technical reasons, then maybe a black edge around the original image, and then a much smaller image box centered in the black edge below the big image, with a close-up of Phoenix.

[paxdan]

i'd like to see a video with a zoom in, ending on the full res parachute image.

[Guest_Oersted_*]

BTW, for those who don't know: Heimdall is a God of the Nordic Pantheon, one of a merry band that include Thor, Odin (Wotan), Loki, etc. Heimdall is the Guardian of the bridge from the land of human beings to the land of the Gods. The bridge was called Bifrost and do you know what it is? - The rainbow! - Isn't that a nice piece of mythology? - The rainbow being a bridge to the land of the Gods. Heimdall rode a chariot and had magnificent senses: he could hear the grass grow, see to the end of the world.

I'm sure our house UMSF poets can work wonders with that and the Bird rising from the Ashes

Here is a drawing of Heimdal (as we prefer to spell his name in Denmark) as he appears in a great series of comic books about the Nordic Gods by Peter Madsen. The series is called Valhalla (Castle of the Gods):

http://www.petermadsen.info/pages/vh/hv-er-hv/heimdal.html

This is cartoon based on the comic book series, for kids it is a great way of getting to know the Nordic Pantheon:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer...mp;search_type=

[GuyMac]

One of the Tucson newspapers, the Arizona Daily Star, has it above the fold in today's issue.

[PFK]

Rob, it will become one of the signature images of space exploration

Quite so; and as I mention in the other thread
http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=5173
it really should be able to be used as a massively inspirational educational tool. After all, just show a full scale blow up of that, explain exactly what it is and what is going on, and then you can branch off to just about any aspect of science you want - let's face it, you can link everything from chemistry to physics to geology to engineering to, well, you name it! You can even factor in the aesthetics of it and the history of science fiction literature etc etc etc.
I was about to say it's worth its weight in gold, but then I'm not sure how that would be quantified in the digital age

[TheChemist]

This image most surely needs a warning note though. Something like :

"ATTENTION: view at your own risk. Might result in permanent jaw damage."

[nprev]

It's a bit hard to describe what this image really signifies when considering how far we've come in such a brief period.

All I know is that it makes me proud to be a human being, and so happy to be alive at this point in history. This simple picture of a speck of our ingenuity blasting through the atmosphere of an alien world iconically represents the best within us.

[SpaceListener]

At the first, the mentioned picture has scared me since due to its optical illusion that Phoenix was falling into a very beautiful crater in fact that it has a very nice concave bowl! Later, after studying and analyzing the picture, my reaction has changed to start in thinking that the nature close to a very tiny Phoenix spacecraft is of a great beauty.

[nprev]

True...makes you think of the awesome vistas that must exist on Mars, even from orbit. There are so many craters just like Heimdall; imagine standing on its rim and hearing a faint sonic boom through your helmet as Phoenix made its passage!

[rlorenz]

True...makes you think of the awesome vistas that must exist on Mars, even from orbit. There are so many craters just like Heimdall; imagine standing on its rim and hearing a faint sonic boom through your helmet as Phoenix made its passage!

Also makes you wonder what MARDI would have seen if it had been taking images during descent. And
also calls into question whether you'd not also want side-looking, rather than just down-looking, images
during descent...

[nprev]

Also makes you wonder what MARDI would have seen if it had been taking images during descent.

(Sigh)...yes. I am certain that MSL will make up for this loss, and then some.

Somehow, I knew you had poetry in your soul, Ralph!

[mars loon]

It is an image that will make for great big-size poster art, so that it won't be marred by the close-up box in the corner, which must go away, just for the sake of beauty.

I agree. This is an iconic, jaw dropping image for the ages that evokes both the poetry and humanity which Rob described in that referenced post.

Personally I think the close up box is absolutely required for context: Parachute plus Crater makes the magic.

the position of the box is debatable

just a thought as I try to detach my jaw from the table

ken

[tuvas]

As to the frequent comments of looking for the heat shield, well, it should be there somewhere close, but it would be very hard to tell a tiny heat shield from the rocks at the bottom of the crater. The parachute being so bright and very much unnatural, well, helps alot... A heat shield would look alot like a rock...

I suspect that the way it will be found is by a future HiRISE image of the site, looking to see if any of the black dots in the area are missing...

[Tesheiner]

I, like others, am also of the opinion that the zoomed box is required.
The WOW factor on the image is based not only on our knowledge that those little "dots" are the parachute & lander but (and more important, imo) on the fact that (almost) all of us already saw the zoom image the day before and have that picture on our minds. But this image with the crater is not only for us here at this and similar forums, it's for the whole mankind; it should be understood by anybody else looking at the picture. Without the zoom, those little dots are just that: little dots.

BTW, yesterday I submited a request to APOD and I'm pretty sure I was not alone...

[ugordan]

BTW, yesterday I submited a request to APOD and I'm pretty sure I was not alone...

Judging by this line on the APOD site: "Tomorrow's picture: dramatic oblique", I think we know what's coming up tomorrow!

[fredk]

About the zoom box, I almost feel guilty nitpicking this image, but my only criticism is that the diagonal lines don't connect corresponding corners...

[um3k]

I noticed that too, fredk.

[Ant103]

Fredk : maybe something like this?

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[fredk]

Beautiful, Ant! And I see you've got the small box more accurately indicating the zoomed area, too.

[elakdawalla]

Looks a bit pumpkin-orange to me -- I'd prefer more muted colors.

--Emily

[Ant103]

Okay Emily . An other try with a bit desaturation :

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[GuyMac]

We have made higher resolution versions available of the crater and the contrast enhanced spacecraft (look for "unannotated" near the bottom of the page).

I've put together a new version of the descent image with inset using the higher-resolution versions. It is 4096x2038 and 5.1 MB.

[elakdawalla]

Awesome, GuyMac, thanks. I assume the answer to this question is "no" but I'll ask anyway: was any color data taken at the time that this photo was shot?

EDIT: Just saw this at the bottom of the page Guy linked to: "HiRISE is currently producing its standard product images for this observation, but it is unlikely that a color version will be available, since the above image is not within the camera’s color swath."

--Emily

[volcanopele]

I've put together a new version of the descent image with inset using the higher-resolution versions. It is 4096x2038 and 5.1 MB.

Sweet! I presume that's the version up on the HiWall now?

[ElkGroveDan]

I was thinking the same thing about the color in the Heimdall image. I'm guessing not. If we could encourage someone to arrange for a color image from either HIRISE or other device at a similar angle at a time in the near future, it wouldn't be difficult to drop in the color behind the original.

[GuyMac]

Awesome, GuyMac, thanks. I assume the answer to this question is "no" but I'll ask anyway: was any color data taken at the time that this photo was shot?

EDIT: Just saw this at the bottom of the page Guy linked to: "HiRISE is currently producing its standard product images for this observation, but it is unlikely that a color version will be available, since the above image is not within the camera’s color swath."

--Emily

Right, we may be able to get the center of the crater in color, but it failed the automatic color co-registration, probably because the CCD offset and overlap corrections don't match anything we've done before.

[MarsEngineer]

Wow. I am glad that you all feel the same about this image as I do. (actually you may feel stronger about it ... I am simply way too biased)

Oersted, while being compared with Henri Cartier-Bresson would make my photo-loving wife laugh her head off ... the truth of the matter is a bizarre multistate photography session.

In Denver CO: the MRO team first points the UHF antenna (and camera by default)
In Pasadena CA: (in a final PHX EDL risk review) they casually mention that we really ought to click
In Pasadena CA: I frantically yell "CLICK!" (many meetings ensue to discuss risk - all the way to the east coast)
In Tucson AZ: the HiRISE team adjusts the exposure settings (via a new small sequence)
In Denver CO: the MRO team adjusts the pointing orientation and sets the camera to go "click" (a 50-something sec long click)
In Pasadena CA: We say GO!
Everywhere: Days later we discover what we where really taking a piicture of!

In addition to the great HiRISE team (did I mention I love HiRISE?), I had to thank the "can-do" MRO S/C team, and especially MRO's Jim Erickson who understood the technical importance (for fault reconstruction) and I (assume) also the potential historical importance. Also I stressed out some members of the PHX team (they were stressed as it was and I made them more worried we would be "breaking" something on the MRO side that was working).

One of the ironies is that in our presentation to upper management that stressed the fault reconstruction benefits (and balanced them against the risk of causing a loss of MRO Electra UHF open loop record data or worse) we did not talk about whether this image might have historical or "cool" importance ... we did not have to.

Thanks again all!

You all made my day!

-Rob Manning

[helvick]

I like the idea of making it a colour image but I agree with Emily - I'd prefer to see (far more) muted colours.

[GuyMac]

I've put together a new version of the descent image with inset using the higher-resolution versions. It is 4096x2038 and 5.1 MB.

Just re-did it at 16 bits per pixel to match the TIFFs, the file is now 7.4 MB.

[Tman]

Could that be the heat shield? It looks rounder and sharper than most of the other "spots".

http://www.greuti.ch/mro/phoenixheatshield.jpg

[ugordan]

Looks to me to be in the wrong direction. I'd expect it to be somewhere in the extension of the parachute-backshell line and somewhat downwards. This appears to be sideways too much and there are some other dark pixels like that in other places of the image.

Btw, GuyMac, I'm curious how you managed to produce such a nice enhanced color view of the chute, I was under the impression the source data was badly underexposed and noisy? Nice work!

[djellison]

I'd expect the heat shield to be below, and a little downrange (right) of the chute - that spot looks feasible to me - we're what, 20s after chute deploy, roughly 10s after heatshield jettison - it's not going to be a million miles away.

Doug

[tuvas]

The dot being the heat shield is a strong possibility, but the proof will only come when a HiRISE picture of the crater comes minus the lander. You are at least the 3rd person to independently suspect that that is indeed the heat shield though (myself included).

[ugordan]

I'd like to know more about the geometry of the observation and which direction relative to this image Phoenix was heading. Using the EDL HUD anim as reference, the stack was moving at a 45 degree angle downward so this image gives me the impression of Phoenix moving principally toward MRO. That's why the dark speck seems too far right to me, although I have to admit it does look conspicuous. I'm not totally convinced, a full resolution crop would probably show if this is an artefact of the sharpening process.

[stevelu]

I like the idea of making it a colour image but I agree with Emily - I'd prefer to see (far more) muted colours.

I'll have to cast another vote for muted colors. Ant103 -- your effort is much appreciated! But to be honest, if your first desaturated version was "one click" desaturated, I would say at least 3 or 4 clicks.

However, it sounds to me like somehow, by hook or crook, they will probably contrive some 'real' coloration for us at some point. So do as you will, we can easily enough desaturate our own

Shifting to the main topic, I agree with others: a stunning and historic image. I am waiting to see if TIME or Newsweek put it on their cover, but that is ephemera.

As one of the first posters in the thread observed, we have one of the truly iconic images of space here. Perhaps it will come to be seen as more than that, as some of the early space age images of the Earth did, this one iconic of the hope and wonder, the fragility and persistence, of humanity's dreams and aspirations as we move into the 21st century.

A deep thanks to all whose work, vision, and tense shoulders made this happen!

[dburt]

Quite so; and as I mention in the other thread
...After all, just show a full scale blow up of that, explain exactly what it is and what is going on, and then you can branch off to just about any aspect of science you want ...

Agree. What I especially like is what that georgeous image (and I prefer desaturated too) seems to say about why Phoenix was able to find a boulder-free area for its landing - that nearby crater didn't kick out any big rocks, because its target area apparently didn't contain any (or many). In terms of impact science, we might have visual confirmation of William K. Hartmann's contention (2003, A Traveler's Guide to Mars, p. 272) that "A cosmic impact into such weakly consolidated old materials may produce only a kablooey blast of steam and dust but no rocks shot into space" (made in relation to energy dissipation and the ages of martian meteorites found on Earth).

-- HDP Don

[Stu]

I kinda like these colours...



Hope you don't mind me playing about with your gorgeous original, Ant...

[Tman]

I'd like to know more about the geometry of the observation and which direction relative to this image Phoenix was heading. Using the EDL HUD anim as reference, the stack was moving at a 45 degree angle downward so this image gives me the impression of Phoenix moving principally toward MRO. That's why the dark speck seems too far right to me, although I have to admit it does look conspicuous. I'm not totally convinced, a full resolution crop would probably show if this is an artefact of the sharpening process.

There's an animation from the second briefing (min 2:50) that shows approximately the geometry of the observation (moving away to MRO path during the exposure) http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/...media/9247.html
Therefrom I'd expect too that the heat shield is a little right of the chute, which also corresponds with the final landing spots on the ground.

[ugordan]

My goofy whack at colorization here.

[imipak]

I kinda like these colours...

Mmmm, sepia. Yummy

[ahecht]

About the zoom box, I almost feel guilty nitpicking this image, but my only criticism is that the diagonal lines don't connect corresponding corners...

If you download the 25MB 4k image the lines are fixed.

[ilbasso]

My first reaction on seeing Phoenix over the crater was to recall Alan Bean's excited shouts on Apollo 12, just after the LM pitched over for final approach: "There it is! There it is! Son of a gun! Right down the middle of the road!"

[dvandorn]

Yep -- except that was Pete Conrad yelling, not Al Bean.

-the other Doug

[Shaka]

My goofy whack at colorization here.

goofy? You're too modest, Gordo. I find your version both tasteful and serene. The one to hang in my living room above the sofa.

[Nix]

I messed around a bit in PS with the 'match color' function, and as a sourcefile a soil-only-crop of one of the full-colour press-release images. Fun

http://www.awalkonmars.com/PSP_008579_9020...6sx2038lweb.jpg (large res)

Nico

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[GuyMac]

Looks to me to be in the wrong direction. I'd expect it to be somewhere in the extension of the parachute-backshell line and somewhat downwards. This appears to be sideways too much and there are some other dark pixels like that in other places of the image.

Btw, GuyMac, I'm curious how you managed to produce such a nice enhanced color view of the chute, I was under the impression the source data was badly underexposed and noisy? Nice work!

Well it's not color, but you're right, the original is under-exposed, very low signal to noise, like our AEB images. This version is reduced from the original by a factor of 5 instead of 10. So really, it's the averaging every 25 pixels into 1 that takes care of the noise. We will release everything once we can make our RED RDR product, which we think is days away (pointing kernels for this obs should be ready now).

Tim Parker earlier noted the spot that is mentioned and suggested that it could be the heat shield since it is darker than other spots, about in the right location and looks less jagged. We are planning a Heimdall observation upcoming (it will not be oblique however).

[ugordan]

LOL, yes I didn't mean color, it was a typo. I understand the S/N improved when you downsized the whole image, but I was actually commenting on the full resolution lander inset. It's light years ahead of the dark, original release. Maybe it's just due to the brighter background, I dunno.

It would be utterly cool if you were to find there's no corresponding dark spot in the Heimdall observation. This image just seems to have ways of getting better and better. Maybe we should be looking for fragments of the cruise stage somewhere in there as well

[Astro0]

OK, here's my version of the Heimdall image.
Colourisation and surrounding terrain added.
Removed the inset and actual vehicle.
Added a parachute and backshell taken from the EDL animation.

Two versions on offer...
Wide poster (larger version available on request)

Enjoy
Astro0

EDIT: WARNING! ARTIST@WORK - NOT SCIENTIST!

[Astro0]

And the desktop version.

Astro0

PS: There is a movie version on the way.

[Guest_Oersted_*]

Astro, sorry, thanks but no thanks! - I think it doesn't do the picture a favour to include a big image of Phoenix. I really like your black border in the original shot though.

What I'm envisioning is the original picture, a black border and then the Phoenix inset placed somewhere in the black border, maybe centered below the main image, and with some discreet indication in the black border of where to look for the lander in the main image. Basically, an inset that doesn't tamper with the original shot, but rather has a box somewhere outside the main image.

[helvick]

Agree 100% with Oersted on this - there is the potential for an absolutely breathtaking presentation of what is technically a unique image here provided we are careful enough to present the key features subtly enough.

I'm not being critical of anyone's work - I can't do this sort of thing at all - but I feel that there is a magnificent composition within reach here that nobody has quite reached yet.

[Astro0]

Sorry you didn't like it
It's an "artist's impression" after all.
Is this more satisfactory?



Astro0

Edit: Desktop-ified for lyford

[ElkGroveDan]

I liked it.

[tim53]

It would be utterly cool if you were to find there's no corresponding dark spot in the Heimdall observation. This image just seems to have ways of getting better and better. Maybe we should be looking for fragments of the cruise stage somewhere in there as well

Don't laugh! I actually think that's a good idea.

At the MPF site, there are several bright "flecks" spread over a few hundred meters around the proposed heatshield impact site (one of these was visible in the 'presidential pan' from the ground) that are puzzling. At first I thought, 'can't be the heatshield after all, because they're too far apart and if the heatshield were inclined to fall apart while descending, it would have done so first thing upon hitting the atmosphere'. So, I started to wonder if they were pieces of the Cruise Stage. Initially, Rob Manning was thinking that it should have burned up completely, but I think he now believes that some of it should make it to the ground (correct me if I'm wrong, Rob).

But lately I've been thinking that those flecks are instead pieces of the mylar insulation on the inside of the heatshield that were exposed to the wind after heatshield separation and tumbling. The bulk of the heathsield is identifiable - particularly when viewing the area in stereo - but there are a lot of big rocks at the MPF site and so we might not know for sure for a long time.

If the Cruise stage hit the atmosphere somewhere in the Heimdall HiRISE scene, perhaps the best chance of finding falling fragments would be to look for anomalously bright (or bluish, if there's color) pixels. But unless Rob has a pretty good idea of where it should be relative to the lander, it might be a ginormous task. Chances might be better around the landing site, provided it's not too far away.

I've been looking for remnants of the cruise stages for the MER rovers and MPF, but haven't found anything suspicious yet (with the exception of the bright flecks at MPF, that is).

-Tim.

[lyford]

Is this more satisfactory?

Hello new desktop!

[nprev]

Astro0, I like both the artist's impression (which you certainly are!) and the desktop...spectacular work as always, thank you!

[Shaka]

AstroO, me old matey, I'd parachute from a plane for your "composite images"!
If we didn't have the 'miracle' of the real photograph, your version would be indispensable.

[Astro0]

Shaka, you bring up an interesting point. If we didn't have the actual image, then no one would believe that an artist's view like mine were feasible at all. Wait for the movie version which I hope to get done over the weekend. Found a great soundtrack to go with it.
Astro0

[glennwsmith]

I think this image captures the essence of the human condition, much as Sagan's "pale blue dot", and which can be summed up in the word "poignant" -- the paradox that it is the very vastness of the cosmos that renders our personal experiences -- the love for a stillborn infant, for example -- meaningful. "Poignant" comes from the same root as "point", as in the pin that can collapse an entire balloon. Or from the Sermon on the Mount, "Blessed are the meek" . . . So Rob, right on man! I am so damn proud to be part, in a small way, of all of this!

[ilbasso]

I think this image captures the essence of the human condition, much as Sagan's "pale blue dot", and which can be summed up in the word "poignant" -- the paradox that it is the very vastness of the cosmos that renders our personal experiences...

There's a similar scene in the IMAX movie, "Walking on the Moon in 3D." As the Apollo 15 LM, Falcon, is descending, there's a long shot that shows the tiny LM almost completely invisible, silhouetted against the vastness of the Hadley area. In fact, while I could see the LM in that shot in the IMAX theatre, I almost cannot discern it when viewing that scene on my 42" HDTV. Even if the Moon or Mars are relatively small compared to Earth, our measly space vessels easily are almost as nothing compared to the "magnificent desolation" that surrounds them. We're used to seeing close-up shots of our vessels, and that makes them seem bigger and somehow more impressive than they really are.

[Pando]

I made a quick movie out of this. Crank up the sound and enjoy!

Click on the link, then click on Heimdall1.mpg

http://www.speedyshare.com/290615381.html

(credit goes to Nico who's colorized image I used, and of course NASA/JPL/University of Arizona)

[Shaka]

If I were Ustrax, I'd hug you, Pando, if you didn't look so much like Mr. Bean.
A supernatural inspiration, but I never saw the parachute. You need to bring in the full-res enhanced parachute right below the word "parachute" and then linger on the closeup before panning out. (Sure, you might have to double up on Zarathustra, but Strauss won't mind.)

[ugordan]

I've been looking for remnants of the cruise stages for the MER rovers and MPF, but haven't found anything suspicious yet (with the exception of the bright flecks at MPF, that is).

Since we opened this can of worms, what is (in principle) the delta-V imparted on the cruise stage at sep and how different is the entry trajectory supposed to be? If the thing is tumbling while burning up in the atmosphere, shouldn't that produce an even larger landing impact ellipse than the lander's ellipse due to lift/drag effects?

[imipak]

I made a quick movie out of this. Crank up the sound and enjoy!

Very nice - could I suggest the zoom out / reveal should be a little slower?

[Tesheiner]

The dot being the heat shield is a strong possibility, but the proof will only come when a HiRISE picture of the crater comes minus the lander. You are at least the 3rd person to independently suspect that that is indeed the heat shield though (myself included).

Add myself to the list...
I downloaded the big image by GuyMac a few minutes before reaching Tman's post and thought the same about that "black dot".

Judging by this line on the APOD site: "Tomorrow's picture: dramatic oblique", I think we know what's coming up tomorrow!

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080530.html

[dmuller]

Since we opened this can of worms ...

to open it even further ... anybody ever looked for remnants of the Mars Climate Orbiter?

[ugordan]

to open it even further ... anybody ever looked for remnants of the Mars Climate Orbiter?

I'd say that one is an impossibility. It entered the atmosphere at such a low angle that the ellipse would probably be in the hundreds of kilometers length by several tens of km in width. We'd have more chance of finding Beagle 2, I'd say...

[Tman]

Add myself to the list...
I downloaded the big image by GuyMac a few minutes before reaching Tman's post and thought the same about that "black dot".

To be honest, creating that cutout, every tenth second I was thinking "hurry up, hurry up"

[Guest_Oersted_*]

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080530.html

Ouch, the crop....

[Guest_Oersted_*]

Sorry you didn't like it
It's an "artist's impression" after all.
Is this more satisfactory?



Astro0

Edit: Desktop-ified for lyford

Astro, I love this one on the other hand! Almost exactly what I was looking for.

Don't take my critique of the other composite to badly, it is just my opinion, others I'm sure like it a lot. I'm sure you appreciate that I give you my true opinion and don't just praise even that which I don't like too much. The major thing is that it is great to have all you image wizards churning out lot's of different artistic visions.

[tim53]

to open it even further ... anybody ever looked for remnants of the Mars Climate Orbiter?

I asked Rob about how long the error ellipse might be, and I think he said "envision a great circle around the planet".

Finding the Soviet landers is going to be hard enough - requiring upwards of 1,000 HiRISE images each.

I honestly gave up the idea of finding MCO.

...for the time being, that is

-Tim.

[djellison]

What are your thoughts on B2 Tim? I can consign our failure to find an MPL 'chute to the changing environment, the 'rise and fall' as it were of the frost and ice etc. But the B2 chute should be as easy to find as that of MER, MPF etc.

Doug

[Reed]

Full inline quote removed - Doug

It will be very interesting to see what the Phoenix stuff looks like after a season. Personally, I think there's a pretty good chance that MPL just isn't in any of the hirise images taken thus far.

[PFK]

I made a quick movie out of this. Crank up the sound and enjoy!

Good stuff. Made me think of having a go. Again, a bit of sound cranking wouldn't go amiss, but you definitely need bass...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O3AgfBLNHg

[tim53]

What are your thoughts on B2 Tim? I can consign our failure to find an MPL 'chute to the changing environment, the 'rise and fall' as it were of the frost and ice etc. But the B2 chute should be as easy to find as that of MER, MPF etc.

Doug

Hi Doug:

So far, HiRISE has taken 3 images of the Beagle 2 landing ellipse, all toward the east, downrange end (because both MERs went downrange of the center of their ellipses, and the atmopheric conditions were similar to Beagle 2). It looks like maybe 20% or so of the ellipse itself is covered (going on the ellipse posted on Malin's website during the MOC search). There's another image east of the end of the ellipse. I've looked at all 4 images, and haven't found anything obvious... ...but I'm planning on starting over, now that I know what another lander and its "stuff" looks like on the surface of Mars now.

I forget how big the Beagle chute was, but there were two of them - a drogue and a main, IIRC. Even the main is small compared to MER, but I think you're right and, if it worked, it ought to be fairly easy to spot.

-Tim.

[tim53]

Full inline quote removed - Doug

It will be very interesting to see what the Phoenix stuff looks like after a season. Personally, I think there's a pretty good chance that MPL just isn't in any of the hirise images taken thus far.

There is a good chance, since as Rob pointed out, initial targeting fell west of the center of the ellipse - and so there's a "painful gap" just east of the center of the ellipse by a few kilometers.

I can't wait for the sun to come back up.

-Tim.

[Eric Hartwell]

There's an RGB slice of the crater rim in Heimdall Crater Rim PSP_005717_2485. Looks more grey than red.

[Guest_jumpjack_*]

Sorry guys, I can't understand a thing:
is thise image a detail of the overall "heimdall image"?


If yes, why is it black, and why is the lander moving in the opposite direction wrt big image?!?
If no... where is the remaining of the HiRISE image?!?

Other question: why "hi res" images of heimdall still do not show lander and parachute in full resolution?!?

Final question: first caption in descent image said it was under investigation if lander shadow is visible on crater rim: is this investigation still going on?!?

[djellison]

If yes, why is it black,

Because the dynamic range of the image is huge - the parachute is much much brighter than the background, thus to render the parachute visible, one has to tone down the rest of the image.

and why is the lander moving in the opposite direction wrt big image?!?

Opposite direction to what? EDL started from the left of that image, the landing site is below it - that orientation is correct


They're still working on the full image - it's a very unusual and off-nominal observation for HiRISE to do, so it take manual processing to get it right.

Doug

[Guest_Oersted_*]

It IS true that the smaller image shown above for some reason is flipped horizontally compared to the big image. But Hirise took just one image, so that is the one we see in all the different versions.

Note that Rob Manning didn't get to see the big shot either in the very beginning. He only saw that complete image of Heimdall crater later on and thought it was a fake, until he realized it was true enough.

BTW this week's The Economist carries the amazing picture prominently:

http://www.economist.com/science/displayst...FTOKEN=15088232

- Good article.

[DaveM]

full inline quote removed - Doug

The parachute image is not flipped, it's just rotated differently. When the HiRISE team was looking for Phoenix, they had no idea they had caught Heimdall crater in the background because it was too big to see in the individual CCD images. When they found the parachute, they just cropped it out and rotated it manually to make it look nice. It was only later when they stitched together the other CCDs and saw the picture of the crater in the background that they were able to rotate the image to the proper orientation.

[djellison]

I've put together an animation of what I think will help put this breathtaking image into context. I've made a very crude chute and backshell model, put it over Tim's May 25m map of the landing ellipse, and start off with as similar view to that of HiRISE as I can fudge, and then zoom right in, fly around it, and fly out and above it to show the landing site below. It's rendering now, I wont have time to get it finished and online before I do my uStream lecture at 2230BST, but it'll be online tomorrow.

Doug

[Guest_Oersted_*]

sounds good, can't wait!

[Stu]

OVER HEIMDALL

Look…

Two specks. Two snowflake flecks of white
drifting through a fire-threaded sky:
a sign that for a brief, bright golden time
Mankind reached out across the Black
and grasped the many mysteries of Mars…

Far behind and far, far below, the great hole
of Heimdall gazes at the sky, an empty eye
socket in the ice-scraped skull of the northern
plains, stained and tamed by Time,
sighing as the Phoenix flew on by…

Just two full stop dots on a portrait of
a planet far away, but their presence proves
the paws of curious apes reached out and touched
the face of Mars; built a glittering steel butterfly
to try and tell them if they really are Alone…

Two mere pin pricks on a pixelled picture, but they
scream into the dark “We failed but tried a second time!”
And like a lamp, lighting up the abyssal martian night,
those Phoenix flames ignited the sense of wonder yet again
in all who watched her landing.

© Stuart Atkinson 2008

[djellison]

Zooming from 700km to 50m, 1 deg FOV to 45deg FOV is quite a long camera pull, and it wasn't really working - so I'm re-rendering now - shouldn't take took long. Here's a preview JPG of just using the initial shot ( 1deg fov ) with a subset I added on of 0.1deg FOV. I fudged the elevation around the crater, I don't have the MOLA data to do something cleverer than that - but if you compare and contrast with the HiRISE image - it's 'representative' if not accurate.

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[Julius]

was checking the phoenix landing site on MOLA map by MGS and noted the relatively low altitude below the average reference ground level for Mars;I think it must be between 0 to 4km below the average;then i just checked the southern cap which lies on a considerably higher ground(between 0 to 3km above the reference point);it looks like Phoenix had an extra 4km or so of atmosphere to slow down compared to MPL which we know crashed....any ideas /suggestions on this?

[Julius]

dont know whether it is the right place to comment about this,but any ideas as to the origin of hills on the horizon of the phoenix landing site..we're sitting at the edge of Alba patera;could these represent ash/volcanic deposits from Alba and as to The 'green valley',is this a fracture from the same Alba??

[dmuller]

it looks like Phoenix had an extra 4km or so of atmosphere to slow down compared to MPL which we know crashed....any ideas /suggestions on this?

If I recall correctly, a "low" altitude that was one of the engineering constraints for the landing site selection. Wasn't it like min MOLA -2.5km or so? The extra atmosphere (length of flight and density) does add to the effectiveness of the parachute. But they knew the landing altitude for the MPL lander and the EDL there was designed accordingly - a possible cause being discussed is that the MPL 'thought' it had touched the ground when it was actually still 50m or so up, rather than the atmosphere being too thin (as was a problem for Beagle2 / Spirit / Opportunity)

[djellison]

Simulation movie - http://www.dougellison.com/?p=19 - not 100%, but I think it'll help put it into context

[ilbasso]

Beautifully done! That puts it into context very well. The only thing I might add would be to have a view from the right side of the current picture - perpendicular to the HIRISE image, that shows both the lander and the crater in the same shot. You could achieve that by "pulling back" from the viewpoint about halfway through your movie. I thought the changing focus effect was particularly good, when you pull focus on the lander and the background goes fuzzy.

[Airbag]

Simulation movie - http://www.dougellison.com/?p=19 - not 100%, but I think it'll help put it into context

Very nice Doug; really shows that the lander is very much in front of the crater and not "in" it. My personal preference would be to remove the somewhat jarring zoom out from the crater and back in again and just zoom right in on the lander instead.

Airbag

[Ant103]

Very good animation who showing exactly the context .

[djellison]

The 'zoom out- zoom in' is actually the camera going from a 1deg fov to a 45 deg fov, whilst zooming in from 700km to <1km - it is a bit jarring, but it'll do

Doug

[Airbag]

Or perhaps start with the wide angle view, then "zoom" to the "classic" view and continue from there with the closer zoom in etc. to the model? Well, it is your animation of course so who am I to say what is best!

Airbag

[glennwsmith]

Stu, you have lived up to your title of Poet Laureate! The skull conceit is more than clever.

Doug, fabulous animation man -- really gives you an idea of the huge expanse that MRO/Hirise was challenged to cover.

[nprev]

Whoa... ...VERY cool animation, Doug, thanks!

Stu's poems are always on target, and I liked the skull metaphor as well. Waiting patiently for the collection in book form!