My Assistant
An Xtra leg for Xtra power for Xtra imaging !, Tilting Phoenix for Xtra weeks of activity before winter... |
Jun 4 2008, 07:47 PM
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![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1098 Joined: 19-February 05 From: Close to Meudon Observatory in France Member No.: 172 |
... with some gathering of meteorological data as well ! I was impressed to see how quick the energy available will drop before the autumn equinox (see link : http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...t&p=116809) Knowing that the Robotic Arm (RA) is strong enough to lift the lander, why not using it as an Xtra leg to tilt her to gain Xtra sunlight on its solar panels and, thus, some Xtra weeks of imaging and meteo activities ? Rationale : - Anyway Phoenix will die from cold : no survability is expected after winter ; - After an extensive use for trenching, the RA will thus no longer be useful, except from being parked ; - could the RA be parked in any position ? - Luckily the RA is almost facing north... Then, why not using it to push firmly on the Martian surface to tilt the Lander towards the south, to help her solar panels receive Xtra weeks of sunlight ? ==> Tilting Phoenix with the RA for Xtra weeks of activities : a feasible dream ? What are the opinions of our s/c hardware specialists ? Was it discussed before ? (...and, please help, help MarsEngineer ! |
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Jun 11 2008, 09:05 PM
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![]() Dublin Correspondent ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 1799 Joined: 28-March 05 From: Celbridge, Ireland Member No.: 220 |
Interesting questions Ken.
The panels don't have heating elements - I'm almost certain of that. They are a very lightweight design that delivers approx 105W/kg at 1 AU (vs about 50W/kg for the MER type rigid panel), total mass of each wing is under 10kg. The minimum night time surface temperatures will drop towards the CO2 frost point [-123 C] sometime between LS 180 and 210 , that's approximately Sols 205 - 260. Modelling either the effect of frost on the panels or the rate at which it would burn off is well beyond me I'm afraid but it seems probable that a southerly tilt would favourably change the micro climate on the panels\deck so as to add a couple of Sols of extra working time. Once the frost begins to fall in earnest though it's going to be lights out very rapidly I think, whatever gymnastics are tried. As far as frost\CO2 deposition is concerned I've managed to extract the following from the Mars Climate Database. The basic data seems to only be available as averages across blocks of 30 Ls so I've only got a fairly crude values so far but what is there is interesting. At Phoenix's latitude a thin uniform layer ( <1mm) of frost will have begun to form by LS 210. After that the build up of CO2 proceeds at a rate of around 1cm for every 5 LS or thereabouts and it maxes out at 25cm of solid CO2. If that actually does build up on Phoenix itself there will be about 1.6 tons of CO2 ice on the solar panels (== detached solar panels) and about a ton of CO2 ice on the deck by the end of NH winter. I wouldn't be holding out much hope for a revival after that. LS..MinTemp.MaxTemp..CO2Ice...PanelIce Deg...Deg.C...Deg.C......cm......Kg 0......-124....-123......22....1470 30.....-120....-102......08.....529 60......-86.....-23......00.......0 90......-80.....-18......00.......0 120.....-91.....-23......00.......0 150....-108.....-49......00.......0 180....-123....-101......00.......3 210....-123....-123......02.....159 240....-123....-123......08.....508 270....-123....-123......14.....932 300....-123....-123......20....1365 330....-123....-123......25....1646 |
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vikingmars An Xtra leg for Xtra power for Xtra imaging ! Jun 4 2008, 07:47 PM
Oersted good job thinking outside the box! Jun 4 2008, 08:06 PM
kungpostyle It would be cool but I doubt the arm has the stren... Jun 4 2008, 08:12 PM
vikingmars QUOTE (kungpostyle @ Jun 4 2008, 10:12 PM... Jun 4 2008, 08:28 PM
pioneer QUOTE (kungpostyle @ Jun 4 2008, 09:12 PM... Jun 4 2008, 08:39 PM
Oersted The question of using the rockets was discussed in... Jun 4 2008, 08:45 PM
climber This is a great idea. They'll have to chose be... Jun 4 2008, 08:55 PM
djellison I can pull myself along easily with one arm.
I ca... Jun 4 2008, 09:00 PM
vikingmars QUOTE (djellison @ Jun 4 2008, 11:00 PM) ... Jun 4 2008, 09:21 PM
AndyG QUOTE (djellison @ Jun 4 2008, 10:00 PM) ... Jun 5 2008, 08:33 AM
jmknapp How about this idea to get a picture of the frost:... Jun 5 2008, 12:55 PM
Ant103 Or they could try to dig under one foot of the lan... Jun 4 2008, 09:31 PM
climber QUOTE (Ant103 @ Jun 4 2008, 11:31 PM) Or ... Jun 4 2008, 09:35 PM
helvick It's an interesting out of the box idea but I ... Jun 4 2008, 10:26 PM
Oersted What we should rather do is having the arm grab th... Jun 4 2008, 10:54 PM
MarsEngineer Hi Vikingmars!
Your suggestion about using th... Jun 4 2008, 11:32 PM
hendric How many amp-hours are the lander batteries anyway... Jun 5 2008, 01:39 PM
helvick There are two rated at 25 Amp Hours each - that... Jun 5 2008, 01:57 PM
MahFL I think we are going to see plenty of frost anyway... Jun 5 2008, 02:12 PM
vikingmars QUOTE (MahFL @ Jun 5 2008, 04:12 PM) I th... Jun 5 2008, 08:42 PM
lyford If they do end up tilting or dragging themselves a... Jun 5 2008, 04:36 PM
Oersted Using the
Dysfunctional Rove Arm Grabbing proce... Jun 5 2008, 04:57 PM
ngunn Can the arm push as hard as it can pull? If so wou... Jun 5 2008, 04:53 PM
ngunn Phoenix Unplanned Sideways Hike Jun 5 2008, 05:02 PM
climber Let's Discover Ice Guys, first Jun 5 2008, 05:14 PM
Oersted Nooooooooo Jun 5 2008, 05:41 PM
climber Hi PhoenixMars!
I take you idea very seriously... Jun 5 2008, 08:54 PM
vikingmars Hello Climber ! Nice words from you !
No, ... Jun 5 2008, 09:31 PM
vikingmars QUOTE (climber @ Jun 5 2008, 10:54 PM) Us... Jun 5 2008, 11:24 PM
brianc Apologies if Jun 6 2008, 10:16 AM
djellison Compare the charts on post 12 of this thread. At ... Jun 6 2008, 11:15 AM
MahFL One of the Phoenix team said they will see frost b... Jun 6 2008, 11:51 AM
vikingmars QUOTE (djellison @ Jun 6 2008, 01:15 PM) ... Jun 6 2008, 01:15 PM
brianc Apologies if not correct Forum as I'm normally... Jun 6 2008, 03:05 PM
MahFL That sounds like a good idea. Jun 6 2008, 04:30 PM
vikingmars QUOTE (brianc @ Jun 6 2008, 05:05 PM) Thi... Jun 6 2008, 08:21 PM
alan It Phoenix was able to use its arm to change its t... Jun 6 2008, 07:00 PM
Stu Guys, guys... if we're going to do this, let... Jun 6 2008, 08:51 PM
phase4 QUOTE (Stu @ Jun 6 2008, 10:51 PM) Guys, ... Jun 6 2008, 09:49 PM
hendric Well, we do have lights on the end of the RAC now,... Jun 9 2008, 08:29 PM
fredk Plant a rock on top? Hmmm... Remember this is an... Jun 9 2008, 08:55 PM
Ken McLean (Long time lurker, first time poster. Hi)
Just go... Jun 10 2008, 02:40 PM
Ken McLean QUOTE (helvick @ Jun 12 2008, 07:05 AM) A... Jun 19 2008, 11:41 AM
tasp Surprising amount of interest has been shown here ... Jun 11 2008, 09:44 PM
MahFL QUOTE (tasp @ Jun 11 2008, 09:44 PM) Surp... Jun 19 2008, 12:00 PM
Greg Hullender Since a kilogram is a unit of mass, not force, it ... Jun 19 2008, 02:30 PM
Ken McLean QUOTE (Greg Hullender @ Jun 20 2008, 12:3... Jun 20 2008, 04:30 AM
Juramike Wow!
Interesting discussion and thank you ver... Jun 19 2008, 03:00 PM
helvick QUOTE (Juramike @ Jun 19 2008, 04:00 PM) ... Jun 19 2008, 05:58 PM
imipak QUOTE (helvick @ Jun 19 2008, 06:58 PM) .... Jun 19 2008, 06:52 PM
jekbradbury Solar panels, by their very nature, are intended t... Jun 19 2008, 03:14 PM
Juramike I'm guessing that the CO2 deposition would sta... Jun 19 2008, 08:08 PM
fredk But frost deposition would start at night, and at ... Jun 19 2008, 08:48 PM
Juramike I'm assuming that the transfer of heat by air ... Jun 20 2008, 01:19 AM
dvandorn There's one phenomenon we're all forgettin... Jun 20 2008, 05:34 AM
lyford Thar she blows! Jun 20 2008, 02:34 PM
Oersted Well, seems we just found out that Phoenix is sitt... Jun 21 2008, 09:00 AM
tuvas Hmmm... I asked about the possibilities of using t... Jul 11 2008, 04:52 AM![]() ![]() |
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