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Landing Site Imagery
OWW
post Dec 20 2004, 09:02 PM
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Will MGS and Odyssey still be operational in 2008? If MRO fails Phoenix has no other option than to communicate with the old MGS. Is it designed to do this?
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djellison
post Dec 20 2004, 10:42 PM
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Well - MGS is currently 8 years 1 month old and working just about fine, less the MOLA trigger - Odyssey currently 3 years 8 months old and working fine minus the MARIE instrument.

Come Mid 2008 - MGS would be 11 years 7 months old, Odyssey 7 years 4 months old

So - when Phoenix is on-form, Odyssey will be younger than MGS is now smile.gif And - to be honnest - I'm almost 100% sure that Odyssey will be FINE then, and MGS - well - it's a bit 50/50 - no reason why not in priciple, but batteries may be dead by then, Gyros, hydrazine etc etc - so I wouldnt put money on it - but it's Odyssey that's relayed the HUGE percentage of MER data - MGS hasnt relayed MER data for months - and I'd imagine that Phoenix will have similar bandwidth requirements as a single MER - so Odyssey alone could manage it - and assuming MRO arrives OK- there'll be plenty of assets available - and there's always DTE smile.gif

Doug
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Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Dec 24 2004, 03:44 AM
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Some communications during descent -- as well as a post-landing DTE link -- was regarded as a mandatory addition to the 2001 Lander even when they were still considering flying it in 2001 after the MPL failure. Phoenix definitely has it. (Phoenix also has retained the precision landing system -- involving active aerodynamic control during entry -- that was always planned for the 2001 Lander; but the landing obstacle detection and avoidance system that was originally supposed to be added to it has been rejected now as too power-consuming to be worthwhile for this mission. Thus the first Mars lander to feature active obstacle avoidance will be MSL two years later.)
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Phil Stooke
post Jun 16 2005, 07:11 PM
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Phoenix landing site: in case people didn't see it, a very interesting discussion with maps was presented at the Mars Express conference earlier this year:


http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/do...fobjectid=36770

I've had students looking at the area - it's not as bland as some early messages in this thread suggested, but some earler images were taken under very hazy conditions.

Phil


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ljk4-1
post Jul 14 2005, 02:01 PM
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Paper: astro-ph/0507317
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 10:40:53 GMT (888kb)

Title: Radiative Habitable Zones in Martian Polar Environments

Authors: C. Cordoba-Jabonero, M.-P. Zorzano, F. Selsis, M. R. Patel and C. S.
Cockell

Comments: 44 pages, 8 figures
Report-no: CAB-lcasat/04057
Journal-ref: Icarus 175 (2005) 360-371
DOI: 10.1016/j.icarus.2004.12.009

The biologically damaging solar ultraviolet (UV) radiation (quantified by the
DNA-weighted dose) reaches the Martian surface in extremely high levels.
Searching for potentially habitable UV-protected environments on Mars, we
considered the polar ice caps that consist of a seasonally varying CO2 ice
cover and a permanent H2O ice layer. It was found that, though the CO2 ice is
insufficient by itself to screen the UV radiation, at 1 m depth within the
perennial H2O ice the DNA-weighted dose is reduced to terrestrial levels. This
depth depends strongly on the optical properties ofthe H2O ice layers (for
instance snow-lile layes). The Earth-like DNA-weighted dose and
Photosynthetically Active Radiation (PAR) requirements were used to define the
upper and lower limits of the nortern and southern polar radiative habitable
zone (RHZ) for which a temporal and spatial mapping was performed. Based on
these studies we conclude that phtosynthetic life might be possible within the
ice layers of the polar regions. The thickness varies along each Martian polar
spring and summer between 1.5 m and 2.4 m for H2= ice-like layers, and a few
centimeters for snow-like covers. These Martian Earth-like radiative habitable
environments may be primary targets for future Martian astrobiological
missions. Special attention should be paid to planetary protection, since the
polar RHZ may also be subject to terrestrial contamination by probes.

\\ ( http://arXiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0507317 , 888kb)


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"After having some business dealings with men, I am occasionally chagrined,
and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance.
I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard,
and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does
not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is
indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have
no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft."

- Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853

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ustrax
post Dec 27 2005, 04:49 PM
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QUOTE (djellison @ Dec 20 2004, 02:13 PM)
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/guest/...23_phoenix.html

Some of those areas have NO features at all!! Even with a descent camera - I wonder how easy localisation will be smile.gif

Actually - given MRO's huge swath width and resolution, easy biggrin.gif

Doug
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Updating...

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/guest/...02_phoenix.html


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djellison
post Dec 27 2005, 05:07 PM
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What I thought was fairly mundane terrain is looking a little more interesting...

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/guest/.../S02-01184m.gif

Look at all the boulders at top left - it's a 50cm CPROTO image.

Doug
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ustrax
post Dec 27 2005, 05:21 PM
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QUOTE (djellison @ Dec 27 2005, 05:07 PM)
What I thought was fairly mundane terrain is looking a little more interesting...

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/guest/.../S02-01184m.gif

Look at all the boulders at top left - it's a 50cm CPROTO image.

Doug
*



You're right Doug, I have sympathized with this particular place...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v352/ustrax/Phoenix1.jpg

Original:
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/guest/.../S02-00184d.gif

Can we make requests?... rolleyes.gif


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Toma B
post Dec 27 2005, 05:31 PM
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Guys how about somebody makes a scaled down version of that enormous image? sad.gif
Doug?, Ustrax?


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The scientist does not study nature because it is useful; he studies it because he delights in it, and he delights in it because it is beautiful.
Jules H. Poincare

My "Astrophotos" gallery on flickr...
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ustrax
post Dec 27 2005, 05:36 PM
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QUOTE (Toma B @ Dec 27 2005, 05:31 PM)
Guys how about somebody makes a scaled down version of that enormous image? sad.gif
Doug?, Ustrax?
*


I can't access Doug's link...
sad.gif


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um3k
post Dec 27 2005, 06:05 PM
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QUOTE (Toma B @ Dec 27 2005, 12:31 PM)
Guys how about somebody makes a scaled down version of that enormous image? sad.gif
Doug?, Ustrax?
*

Here:
Attached Image
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mcaplinger
post Dec 27 2005, 06:37 PM
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QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Dec 23 2004, 07:44 PM)
Some communications during descent -- as well as a post-landing DTE link -- was regarded as a mandatory addition to the 2001 Lander even when they were still considering flying it in 2001 after the MPL failure.  Phoenix definitely has it. 
*


I'm not so sure they did retain the post-landing DTE capability on PHX except for EDL tones. The latest renderings of the lander on the PHX web site don't show a steerable DTE antenna, though earlier ones did. I really haven't kept track of how this ended up.

I believe that for PHX relay MRO is the prime and Odyssey is the backup. It might be possible to send data through MGS in a pinch, but as with MER, they prefer not to do that since it's lower rate and incurs some loss because of the way the MGS relay works (it doesn't have handshaking like the later designs.)


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Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
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Steve G
post Dec 31 2005, 09:07 PM
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QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Dec 27 2005, 11:37 AM)
I'm not so sure they did retain the post-landing DTE capability on PHX except for EDL tones.  The latest renderings of the lander on the PHX web site don't show a steerable DTE antenna, though earlier ones did.  I really haven't kept track of how this ended up.

I believe that for PHX relay MRO is the prime and Odyssey is the backup.  It might be possible to send data through MGS in a pinch, but as with MER, they prefer not to do that since it's lower rate and incurs some loss because of the way the MGS relay works (it doesn't have handshaking like the later designs.)
*


I'm looking forward to see the science the mission will bring us. It will be a lot more interesting than the pictures. The MERs have spoiled us with the pretty postcards, but that's not why PHX is going to Mars. The science is going to be great.
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RNeuhaus
post Dec 31 2005, 09:29 PM
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QUOTE (Steve G @ Dec 31 2005, 04:07 PM)
The MERs have spoiled us with the pretty postcards, but that's not why PHX is going to Mars.
*

We have not only received post cards but also graphs about the minerology content of some interesting stones, Thermal analysis of Martian atmosphere and surface. PHX have another kind of scientific instruments that will complement to MER starting with its drilling and sampling data for post-analysis.

It is still a long time to learn news from PHX since it will land on Mars by the first months of the year 2008...it is 2 years from now.

Rodolfo
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gndonald
post Jan 16 2006, 04:06 AM
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QUOTE (Steve G @ Jan 1 2006, 05:07 AM)
I'm looking forward to see the science the mission will bring us.  It will be a lot more interesting than the pictures. The MERs have spoiled us with the pretty postcards, but that's not why PHX is going to Mars.  The science is going to be great.
*


Quite right, the science definitely be worth it, all of the previous surface level weather measurement has been done at the lower latitudes (47 deg N for Viking 1/2, 19 deg N for Pathfinder), thus a look at the high altitude weather patterns should hopefully provide a contrast to them.

I just find it a pity that NASA can't get funding to send a second lander to the South Polar region in the same year (even of the Pathfinder variety).
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