My Assistant
Titan's changing lakes |
Jan 29 2009, 07:22 PM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3516 Joined: 4-November 05 From: North Wales Member No.: 542 |
Today's big news?
http://ciclops.org/view/5471/CASSINI_FINDS...ILL_TITAN_LAKES Changes in the south polar region were announced late last year. Is there more to this story now?? |
|
|
|
![]() |
Aug 23 2009, 06:08 AM
Post
#2
|
|
![]() Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 237 Joined: 22-December 07 From: Alice Springs, N.T. Australia Member No.: 3989 |
The variation in the height of the surface of Ontario Lacus has been constrained to within a range of a few millimetres.
There is an abstract (you will have to pay for the full research paper) pubished in Geophysical Research Letters on Aug19 on the - Smoothness of Titan's Ontario Lacus: Constraints from Cassini RADAR specular reflection data. Available at http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2009/2009GL039588.shtml It has recieved good publicity in the popular scientific press, such as http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1766...ping-rocks.html As an amateur who is fascinated by Titan - and in particular its lakes and 'methano-ethanological' cycle - I thought that this 19Aug abstract was v interesting. While not proof that Ontario Lacus is filled with liquid, I think that there would be few people who would bet a week's wages on it having any sort of solid surface after reading about how incredibly smooth it is. It is interesting to see how this research has been built on data from the T49 Dec08 pass. I read a paper a while ago by Ralph (Lorenz - who posts regularly right here) on this pass. Very interesting regarding the specular reflection. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/1990.pdf ....Now team member Lauren Wye (whose speciality is signal detection) has built on this, by working out a way to more accurately analyze the strength of the specular return by partly overcoming distortion factors caused by the flash. This has allowed an upper boundary in height variation of the surface to be set at 3mm. To me this looks like a brilliant conclusion to the work of a highly multiskilled team! Congratulations. (No pun intended - it is more than a flash in the pan!). |
|
|
|
Aug 23 2009, 06:26 PM
Post
#3
|
|
![]() Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 614 Joined: 23-February 07 From: Occasionally in Columbia, MD Member No.: 1764 |
To me this looks like a brilliant conclusion to the work of a highly multiskilled team! Congratulations. It was Lauren who did all the work. One of those discoveries that starts with 'that's odd....' (namely that the amplitude histogram of the echoes was nonGaussian. Essentially the surface is so flat that the echo power is dominated by returns from a small area (almost a point target) and the echoes are sufficiently in phase that the saddle-shaped histogram of the transmitted chirp is retained.) Thus we can get information showing that few-hundred-meter-wide areas on Ontario are flat at a fraction of a radar wavelength.) The effort was complicated by the saturation of the signal, which was then lossy-compressed, although Lauren managed to reverse-engineer the processing chain to recover some quantitative backscatter numbers nonetheless. This experience let us fine-tune the re-observation on T60 with stronger attenuator settings. Unfortunately that data were lost due to the DSN outage. So, the elevation profile (reported in my LPSC abstract) shows Ontario is flat to ~10m over tens of km, and the echo histogram data show it is flat to ~3mm over ~100m scales. Flat as a millpond, as they say |
|
|
|
Aug 24 2009, 08:01 AM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Founder ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
|
|
|
|
ngunn Titan's changing lakes Jan 29 2009, 07:22 PM
ngunn Aah, there's this:
http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/... Jan 29 2009, 07:32 PM
volcanopele Here are some the associated graphics:
http://pho... Jan 29 2009, 07:34 PM
volcanopele QUOTE (ngunn @ Jan 29 2009, 12:22 PM) Cha... Jan 29 2009, 07:35 PM
ngunn That's brilliant, thanks VP. Jan 29 2009, 07:45 PM
Jason W Barnes I actually much prefer that these press releases c... Jan 29 2009, 09:11 PM
ngunn QUOTE (Jason W Barnes @ Jan 29 2009, 09:1... Jan 30 2009, 02:14 AM
Jason W Barnes QUOTE (ngunn @ Jan 29 2009, 08:14 PM) Whi... Jan 30 2009, 05:33 PM
ngunn That is indeed most helpful. Although I'm stil... Jan 30 2009, 08:16 PM
rlorenz QUOTE (ngunn @ Jan 30 2009, 03:16 PM) Wha... Feb 4 2009, 03:36 PM
Decepticon Does anyone have a radar swath overlay-ed of the s... Feb 2 2009, 10:57 AM
titanicrivers QUOTE (Decepticon @ Feb 2 2009, 04:57 AM)... Feb 2 2009, 03:15 PM
ngunn Excellent!! Feb 4 2009, 09:11 PM
nprev Oh, goodygoodygoody...Santa Ralph hints that a bit... Feb 5 2009, 12:37 AM
Juramike Bam! There it is!
Lorenz et al. LPSC (2... Feb 7 2009, 04:48 PM
ngunn Brilliant discovery - brilliant paper title!
... Feb 7 2009, 07:20 PM
rlorenz QUOTE (ngunn @ Feb 7 2009, 02:20 PM) Bril... Feb 9 2009, 06:22 PM
Jason W Barnes QUOTE (rlorenz @ Feb 9 2009, 12:22 PM) Bu... Feb 10 2009, 01:52 AM
ngunn Taking this together with earlier VIMS results, ma... Feb 8 2009, 08:37 AM
nprev Hmm. Sorry to hear that, Ralph; it was indeed a gr... Feb 9 2009, 07:57 PM
ngunn Or perhaps other 'disadvantaged' topics we... Feb 9 2009, 09:15 PM
rlorenz QUOTE (ngunn @ Feb 9 2009, 04:15 PM) Perh... Feb 15 2009, 04:21 AM
ngunn Great - another potentially variable lake property... Feb 15 2009, 07:51 PM
Jason W Barnes VIMS Ontario Lacus paper is now out in print from ... Apr 10 2009, 11:32 PM
ngunn A huge thank you (again) for making another fascin... Apr 11 2009, 07:26 AM
titanicrivers As above. A very readable and yet compelling pape... Apr 11 2009, 12:28 PM
ngunn Is anybody going to have a go at matching the alti... Apr 11 2009, 10:04 PM
Jason W Barnes QUOTE (ngunn @ Apr 11 2009, 03:04 PM) Is ... Apr 12 2009, 06:25 PM
Gsnorgathon Hey! I got lucky and got the whole article. (D... Aug 23 2009, 05:29 PM
nprev It's a fascinating result, Ralph, and clearly ... Aug 23 2009, 09:08 PM
AndyG Reading this made me think of the artwork by Richa... Aug 24 2009, 08:26 AM
ngunn BIG changes observed at Ontario Lacus in the 4th a... Sep 1 2009, 11:24 AM
titanicrivers QUOTE (ngunn @ Sep 1 2009, 05:24 AM) BIG ... Sep 1 2009, 12:40 PM
Hungry4info QUOTE (titanicrivers @ Sep 1 2009, 06:40 ... Sep 1 2009, 01:15 PM
ngunn Strange, it works for me OK, although it does invo... Sep 1 2009, 01:34 PM
titanicrivers QUOTE (ngunn @ Sep 1 2009, 07:34 AM) Stra... Sep 1 2009, 05:20 PM
HughFromAlice QUOTE (titanicrivers @ Sep 2 2009, 02:50 ... Sep 1 2009, 11:30 PM
belleraphon1 All..
I found I had to outside the forum and go ... Sep 1 2009, 01:54 PM
belleraphon1 And, of course, I copy the wrong abstract... sorry... Sep 1 2009, 01:57 PM
remcook How well do the ISS and RADAR 'shorelines... Sep 1 2009, 02:36 PM
ngunn I have to admit I'm baffled by the numbers rig... Sep 1 2009, 03:09 PM
Sunspot So when will us common folk get to see the T57/T58... Sep 1 2009, 03:40 PM
ngunn I've edited my previous post 42 to correct a n... Sep 1 2009, 06:18 PM
volcanopele Well, hopefully they will broadcast the oral sessi... Sep 1 2009, 11:34 PM
ngunn This presentation will compare apparent shorelines... Sep 3 2009, 11:12 AM
Olvegg NASA Cassini Radar Observes Seasonal Change in Tit... Oct 7 2009, 06:11 PM
titanicrivers QUOTE (Olvegg @ Oct 7 2009, 01:11 PM) NAS... Oct 8 2009, 03:32 AM
ngunn Spectacular changes - and so plain to see! (No... Oct 7 2009, 08:38 PM
ngunn I am trying to post the VIMS image of the bottom r... Oct 7 2009, 09:50 PM
volcanopele I think the ISS/VIMS/RADAR story is coming along n... Oct 7 2009, 10:02 PM
Webscientist QUOTE (volcanopele @ Oct 8 2009, 12:02 AM... Oct 8 2009, 08:54 PM
ngunn Link from remcook:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/s... Oct 7 2009, 10:28 PM
volcanopele I guess my comment is that I think they have it ba... Oct 7 2009, 11:58 PM
Sunspot How wide is thay channel where it appears to open ... Oct 8 2009, 07:53 AM
volcanopele The landing site might depend on the season when t... Oct 8 2009, 09:03 PM
nprev Hmm. It does seem as if the 'desert' equat... Oct 8 2009, 09:13 PM
ngunn QUOTE (nprev @ Oct 8 2009, 10:13 PM) Huyg... Oct 8 2009, 09:53 PM
volcanopele Yeah, and storms are not unheard of at the latitud... Oct 8 2009, 09:18 PM
nprev Gotcha. I'm definitely thinking flash floods a... Oct 8 2009, 09:36 PM
djellison Some posts have been removed from this thread, as ... Oct 9 2009, 04:33 PM
titanicrivers Check out Photojournal http://photojournal.jpl.nas... Oct 10 2009, 03:01 PM
ngunn VIMS sees specular reflection from Kraken Mare:
Q... Oct 25 2009, 09:48 PM
Jason W Barnes QUOTE (ngunn @ Oct 25 2009, 02:48 PM) On ... Oct 26 2009, 02:00 PM
ngunn And there's so much more - here:
(struggling ... Oct 25 2009, 10:50 PM
ngunn Personal anecdote: perhaps not many people remembe... Oct 26 2009, 12:01 AM
Jason W Barnes QUOTE (ngunn @ Oct 25 2009, 05:01 PM) The... Oct 26 2009, 05:32 PM
rlorenz QUOTE (Jason W Barnes @ Oct 26 2009, 01:3... Nov 1 2009, 03:11 PM
Jason W Barnes QUOTE (rlorenz @ Nov 1 2009, 08:11 AM) As... Nov 2 2009, 06:54 PM
rlorenz QUOTE (Jason W Barnes @ Nov 2 2009, 01:54... Nov 6 2009, 08:58 PM
volcanopele QUOTE (rlorenz @ Nov 6 2009, 01:58 PM) Wo... Nov 6 2009, 09:26 PM
Jason W Barnes QUOTE (rlorenz @ Nov 6 2009, 01:58 PM) Hm... Nov 7 2009, 05:54 AM
ngunn Another morsel from the conference abstracts. Any... Oct 26 2009, 01:34 PM
ngunn Catching the lakeshine:
Radar 21st December ... Oct 26 2009, 02:33 PM
Jason W Barnes QUOTE (ngunn @ Oct 26 2009, 07:33 AM) Cat... Oct 26 2009, 02:46 PM
ngunn Yeah, you caught the sun's direct reflection a... Oct 26 2009, 03:04 PM
ngunn Thanks, Jason. Congrats to the team and good luck ... Oct 27 2009, 12:41 PM
ngunn Excuse a very basic question: would that be one pi... Nov 1 2009, 07:25 PM
Juramike QUOTE (ngunn @ Nov 1 2009, 02:25 PM) Excu... Nov 1 2009, 08:05 PM

ngunn QUOTE (Juramike @ Nov 1 2009, 08:05 PM) a... Nov 1 2009, 09:17 PM
Jason W Barnes QUOTE (ngunn @ Nov 1 2009, 12:25 PM) Excu... Nov 2 2009, 06:56 PM
ngunn Article on seasonal and longer term change:
http:/... Nov 30 2009, 10:53 AM
volcanopele We shall see. I still think its seasonal. Nov 30 2009, 05:17 PM
Jason W Barnes QUOTE (volcanopele @ Nov 30 2009, 10:17 A... Nov 30 2009, 05:37 PM
volcanopele Where are the south polar dry lakes? What do you ... Nov 30 2009, 05:53 PM
Jason W Barnes QUOTE (volcanopele @ Nov 30 2009, 10:53 A... Nov 30 2009, 07:05 PM
ngunn QUOTE (Jason W Barnes @ Nov 30 2009, 07:0... Nov 30 2009, 09:06 PM

Juramike QUOTE (ngunn @ Nov 30 2009, 04:06 PM) Of ... Nov 30 2009, 09:54 PM
rlorenz QUOTE (Jason W Barnes @ Nov 30 2009, 02:0... Dec 1 2009, 11:23 PM
Jason W Barnes QUOTE (rlorenz @ Dec 1 2009, 04:23 PM) Ti... Dec 2 2009, 05:54 PM
ngunn I don't have access to the full paper, but fro... Nov 30 2009, 06:00 PM
Juramike I really, really, like the idea of the longer term... Nov 30 2009, 07:51 PM
ngunn I've been checking authors' websites, but ... Nov 30 2009, 08:32 PM
volcanopele Very nice article! Thanks for the link. Thou... Nov 30 2009, 08:50 PM
Juramike QUOTE (volcanopele @ Nov 30 2009, 03:50 P... Nov 30 2009, 09:46 PM
ngunn Yes. And if the lakes 'breathe' into and o... Nov 30 2009, 10:27 PM
remcook So, what is new in this paper? The speculation abo... Dec 2 2009, 08:35 AM![]() ![]() |
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 17th December 2024 - 06:46 AM |
|
RULES AND GUIDELINES Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting. IMAGE COPYRIGHT |
OPINIONS AND MODERATION Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators. |
SUPPORT THE FORUM Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member. |
|