AMSAT UK Colloquium 2009 Options

[djellison]

Thought I'd kick off a thread just for this.

Todays program is here
http://www.uk.amsat.org/content/view/679/266/1/1/
Ed and Fergus from CU Spaceflight are on at 1440

Tomorrow
http://www.uk.amsat.org/content/view/679/266/1/2/
I'm on at 1120

Live streaming is available - http://batc.tv/ch_live.php (and is up now)

Enjoy.

[djellison]

Great news - http://www.uk.amsat.org/content/view/696/68/

[Stu]

Anyone watching Doug's presentation? he should be on in a minite... no sign of anything happening on the live streaming tho, unless I have the wrong link...

[Stu]

Ah, here we go...

http://www.batc.tv/ch_live.php

[Stu]

Hope some of you managed to watch Doug's presentation. The audience was very appreciative, laughed a lot, and he got a great round of applause at the end. The streaming vid coverage was, I have to say, excellent, so well done whoever was in charge of that.

As you'd expect, Doug really highlighted the excellent work done by many UMSFers, but, more importantly, he made the point - VERY strongly- that ESA needs to do a lot, lot better when it comes to Outreach and Education. There were some ESA people in the room, so hopefully they'll take the message onboard and go back convinced that they can, and must, do better.

[djellison]

Videos are getting added a few at a time to www.batc.tv in the film archive section. Ed & Fergus's balloon talk is up, mine will follow soon I presume. Presentations themselves at PDF's ( without movies etc ) are here : http://www.uk.amsat.org/component/option,c...per/Itemid,278/

[imipak]

Here's the download link - .flv format, 250Mb.

[Juramike]

As you'd expect, Doug really highlighted the excellent work done by many UMSFers, but, more importantly, he made the point - VERY strongly- that ESA needs to do a lot, lot better when it comes to Outreach and Education. There were some ESA people in the room, so hopefully they'll take the message onboard and go back convinced that they can, and must, do better.

I just read this on Michael Kahn's blog. I didn't realize that ESA doesn't own the instruments or the rights to the data. Hopefully that can change in a positive way...

Unlike many other space agencies and their missions, typically ESA receives funding only for the design, building, launch and operation of their scientific spacecraft. The instruments are financed separately, which means that ESA then has no right to the data obtained and no say on how they should be disseminated. This also means that ESA has limited control over the breadth and depth of public outreach activities for most of its missions.

If the outside parties (t)hat are in possession of the copyright on the obtained data engage in adequate public outreach, then ESA enthusiastically supports this and includes all provided material on the web site of the respective mission. If the parties in question for any reason do not provide such material, then there is not much scope for real pressure that ESA could bring to bear.

I guess I can't fault them for not releasing data they don't own....

[Stu]

ESA should make it a condition of flight that organisations etc make their instruments' images and data available for public release and outreach use. It's not rocket science.

[nprev]

Yeah. That seems like a very odd sort of arrangement. I presume that ESA is responsible for all spacecraft tracking, telemetry & control; surely they should be entitled to a share of the science return in exchange (and at the VERY least, enough of that to conduct effective outreach activities!)

Strange.

[djellison]

That's the problem - everyone in ESA member states paid for MEX and Rosetta....but because we didn't all pay for HRSC, or, say, OSIRIS....those specific instruments think they can get away with near zero outreach. It's near criminal.

As a result - as I presented in that talk - some researches asked school kids aged 12-15 here in the uk
"Can you name any organisation from anywhere in the world that carries out space research?"

the top answers were NASA, followed massively behind by 'don't know' and 'Russian'.

And I quote

“ESA had one more response
than Area 51 and just two more
responses than ‘Men in
Black’....the British National
Space Centre (BNSC) was not
mentioned once!”

This was the summer after Mars Express and Huygens did their thing. It's not like ESA wasn't up to anything.

It gives me rage.

[Juramike]

ESA should make it a condition of flight that organisations etc make their instruments' images and data available for public release and outreach use.

I agree. It's not like there are a lot of "service providers" for getting into Mars orbit. ESA should be able to negotiate for whatever they want.

An agreement like that would pay huge dividends for ESA and everyone else down the road. (Especially in light of the survey Doug presented.)

A paradigm shift at the highest levels is required.

[dvandorn]

Yep -- ESA should have a "no bucks, no Buck Rogers" talk with the European scientific community. Remind them that they can do whatever they want in terms of funding the instruments, but without a ride to the planet of their choice, they'll never be able to use them. And that, with such pathetic data flow imposed upon ESA by the PIs and no apparent interest in outreach by the scientific community, the rides will all go away -- sooner rather than later -- unless something changes soon.

While I am 100% behind scientific research, it is very true that too many of these people have been living in ivory towers for so long that they don't have a clue how things work out here in the Real World. The educators need an education.

-the other Doug

[cotopaxi]

Yep -- ESA should have a "no bucks, no Buck Rogers" talk with the European scientific community. Remind them that they can do whatever they want in terms of funding the instruments, but without a ride to the planet of their choice, they'll never be able to use them. And that, with such pathetic data flow imposed upon ESA by the PIs and no apparent interest in outreach by the scientific community, the rides will all go away -- sooner rather than later -- unless something changes soon.

It is more complex. The contribution from the member states is ESA´s only significant funding source. And the member states are not necessarily interested in the data rights being transferred from "their" national institutes to ESA. Many policy decisions are prepared by ESA´s advisory structure, and the national delegates there are frequently representants from the same organisations as those who build the instruments (in certain cases even the same people).

Data release certainly needs to be quicker and archiving faster, and I am confident it will. But given the constellation, it will need some time.