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Unmanned landing sites from LRO, Surveyors, Lunas, Lunakhods and impact craters from hardware impacts
Byran
post Mar 25 2010, 04:54 PM
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Luna-16
http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/news/?archives/206-Luna-16.html


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nprev
post Mar 26 2010, 05:30 AM
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That's one of the clearest shots yet.


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Geert
post Apr 10 2010, 10:23 AM
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The list at the LROC site states a preliminary position for Luna 18 at 3.760 N 56.655 E on image M119482862R pixel coordinates 3189 X 28221.
Given that the pixel coordinates relate to the raw image (flipped), this translates to coordinates 1875 X 28221 on the image as published, leading us to below position.

Attached Image


Conform the same logic, Luna 20 can indeed be found on the same image at pixel coordinates 4086 X 29618, so hopefully my mathematics are correct.

If this is indeed Luna 18, the craft seems to have landed on the edge of a crater, but how much damage it sustained is impossible to tell. Hopefully we get clearer images later.
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Phil Stooke
post Apr 10 2010, 01:53 PM
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I didn't know we had access to that image yet.

Phil


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Geert
post Apr 10 2010, 03:11 PM
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QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Apr 10 2010, 08:53 PM) *
I didn't know we had access to that image yet.


The site doesn't give you direct access to that image, but when I ran a search for it in the library the raw TIFF nevertheless showed up and could be downloaded.

http://wms.lroc.asu.edu/lroc_browse/view/M119482862R

Tried the same to get Surveyor 7 but that image as yet seems unaccessable.
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Phil Stooke
post Apr 10 2010, 05:35 PM
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Thanks for the tip!

I'm learning a lot here. Locating both those landers on that image, I find that they are further north than I had expected. Also, that raw image is south-up. If it's rotated 180 degrees it is right-reading - no further flip needed. When I compare the two landers - I mean the candidate Luna 18 lander as it's not confirmed yet - I find the 'Luna 18' is quite a bit smaller than Luna 20:

Attached Image


Maybe it's not the right object, but large rocks are very rare in this region.

Phil


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ElkGroveDan
post Apr 10 2010, 05:45 PM
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How far apart are they in the image Phil, is it possible that we are looking at a perspective issue here? No doubt that the Luna 20 candidate is a man made object, you can even discern the shadow of narrow cross-section antennas or whatever they are protruding from the top.

EDIT: Also, is it possible the impact caused it to embed in the regolith somewhat or some of the protruding devices to separate, giving it that smaller appearance?
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Phil Stooke
post Apr 10 2010, 05:53 PM
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This is a locator image for Luna 20 and the Luna 18 candidate:

Attached Image


The black box (approx. 1500 m wide) has Luna 20 in the upper left corner and the Luna 18 candidate in the lower right corner. But while searching through the image I found this object:

Attached Image


It's inside that large crater at the bottom of the locator image. It appears to be exactly the same size and form as Luna 20.

Phil


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ElkGroveDan
post Apr 10 2010, 06:05 PM
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Wow...good eye


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Phil Stooke
post Apr 10 2010, 06:15 PM
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The large crater in that locator image is 4 km north of the expected landing site.

Phil


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Phil Stooke
post Apr 10 2010, 06:47 PM
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Here's the new comparison image. (PS I really ought to be doing some work around the house... but who can leave this stuff alone?)

Attached Image


Phil



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djellison
post Apr 10 2010, 06:54 PM
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I can almost convince myself that the crash landing has caused the ascent stage to fall over to the north.
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Phil Stooke
post Apr 10 2010, 08:00 PM
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If this is Luna 18 it obviously landed - rather than crashed - but presumably landed hard enough to do some serious damage to the spacecraft, especially its communication system.

The difference in shadow lengths between the two objects is related to local slopes - Luna 18 (my candidate for it anyway) is on a crater wall sloping toward the sun.

Phil


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Geert
post Apr 11 2010, 12:15 AM
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QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Apr 11 2010, 03:00 AM) *
If this is Luna 18 it obviously landed - rather than crashed - but presumably landed hard enough to do some serious damage to the spacecraft, especially its communication system.


Impossible to tell whether your candidate or the 'official' candidate is Luna 18, we have to wait until they release some new images, preferably with a low sun angle.

We should keep in mind that Luna 18 (like Luna 23) should have its ascent stage still on top (contrary to Luna 16/20), so it should be a lot higher (unless the thing has toppled over on landing and is lying on its side as might be the case with the official candidate).
Probably Luna 18 can best be compared with Luna 23, but then we need two images with similar sun-angle.
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djellison
post Apr 11 2010, 12:28 AM
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QUOTE (Geert @ Apr 11 2010, 01:15 AM) *
Impossible to tell whether your candidate or the 'official' candidate is Luna 18,


I'd say it's a very very very very very very very very very very very good candidate.

If it's NOT Luna 18, then someone else landed a replica Luna spacecraft at some point.
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