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Phoenix Site
remcook
post Jan 22 2005, 01:21 PM
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did it got mentioned that the site was launched last week or so?


http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/
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Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Aug 27 2005, 01:05 AM
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Bob, the really big qualitative difference between Phoenix and the MERs is that the latter were designed primarily to investigate ROCKS (for which you have to travel long distances horizontally), while Phoenix is designed to investigate SOIL -- which is far more evenly mixed in the horizontal dimension.

This was a major consideration in the design of Polar Lander. I have several 1995 documents from its science definition team during their consideration of its proper payload, which stated that its single most important goal was to look at the makeup of "evenly mixed substances" on Mars -- namely, the soil and the atmosphere -- for the clues they could provide on the very-long-term climate history of Mars over its entire global extent. Rocks were described as very minor scientifically for MPL. Phoenix has exactly the same traits, except that it will place more emphasis than MPL would have on the biological habitability of the near-surface ice layer.

By the way, the science groups determining the exploration strategy for Europa have also emphasized that the need for horizontal mobility on Europa is relatively trivial -- it's vertical mobility that is of overwhelming importance there. It will be a long time before we see any Europa rover.
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Bob Shaw
post Aug 27 2005, 01:15 AM
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QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Aug 27 2005, 02:05 AM)
Bob, the really big qualitative difference between Phoenix and the MERs is that the latter were designed primarily to investigate ROCKS (for which you have to travel long distances horizontally), while Phoenix is designed to investigate SOIL -- which is far more evenly mixed in the horizontal dimension. 

This was a major consideration in the design of Polar Lander.  I have several 1995 documents from its science definition team during their consideration of its proper payload, which stated that its single most important goal was to look at the makeup of "evenly mixed substances" on Mars -- namely, the soil and the atmosphere -- for the clues they could provide on the very-long-term climate history of Mars over its entire global extent.  Rocks were described as very minor scientifically for MPL.  Phoenix has exactly the same traits, except that it will place more emphasis than MPL would have on the biological habitability of the near-surface ice layer.

By the way, the science groups determining the exploration strategy for Europa have also emphasized that the need for horizontal mobility on Europa is relatively trivial -- it's vertical mobility that is of overwhelming importance there.  It will be a long time before we see any Europa rover.
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Bruce:

I accept all that you say, but they *would * say that, wouldn't they? © Christine Keeler 1962.

It'd still be a tragedy if, after driving miles across Gusev (etc) we're defeated by inches when Phoenix lands.

As for Europa, the icy surface is of little interest compared to the depths, but even there some horizontal discretion could be the difference between boom and bust...

Bob Shaw


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Remember: Time Flies like the wind - but Fruit Flies like bananas!
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Posts in this topic
- remcook   Phoenix Site   Jan 22 2005, 01:21 PM
- - tedstryk   Thanks for the link! This is much better than ...   Jan 22 2005, 01:34 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Indeed it is -- although the other previous one ( ...   Jan 22 2005, 07:34 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   From Doug Lombardi: "We have made a slight ...   Feb 2 2005, 02:01 AM
- - Gsnorgathon   Bruce - Do you know if there are any plans for fl...   Feb 2 2005, 07:29 AM
- - YesRushGen   Regarding the patchyness of the ice mantle, they s...   Feb 2 2005, 03:40 PM
- - tedstryk   The payload wouldn't survive a MER landing. A...   Feb 2 2005, 03:46 PM
- - djellison   QUOTE (YesRushGen @ Feb 2 2005, 03:40 PM)The ...   Feb 2 2005, 03:51 PM
- - TheChemist   I have much appreciated the MERs after reading the...   Feb 2 2005, 05:16 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   In reply to Gsnorgathon: I believe (although I...   Feb 5 2005, 09:26 PM
- - Gsnorgathon   Thanks, Bruce. Guess we'll just have to be pat...   Feb 6 2005, 12:52 AM
- - tedstryk   Some Phoenix SSI info (courtesy the SSI team). Th...   Feb 7 2005, 06:05 AM
- - RedSky   I ran across this page of the Phoenix landing anim...   Aug 24 2005, 05:00 AM
|- - helvick   That link led me to dig around on the site a bit a...   Aug 24 2005, 06:08 PM
|- - Redstone   QUOTE (RedSky @ Aug 24 2005, 05:00 AM)I ran a...   Aug 24 2005, 08:17 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   I'm very skeptical of that part about the land...   Aug 25 2005, 12:17 AM
- - Decepticon   The lander will only last a few months!? I fi...   Aug 25 2005, 01:08 AM
|- - ElkGroveDan   QUOTE (Decepticon @ Aug 25 2005, 01:08 AM)The...   Aug 25 2005, 03:49 AM
|- - jamescanvin   QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ Aug 25 2005, 01:49 PM)Ph...   Aug 25 2005, 04:38 AM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Aug 25 2005, 04:38 AM)It...   Aug 25 2005, 11:34 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Yes, the problem with this one (as with Polar Land...   Aug 25 2005, 05:18 AM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Aug 25 2005, 05:18 AM)An...   Aug 25 2005, 11:33 PM
- - edstrick   I really wish it were possible to put minimal craw...   Aug 25 2005, 08:29 AM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (edstrick @ Aug 25 2005, 09:29 AM)That ...   Aug 25 2005, 09:49 AM
- - akuo   But Phoenix has a real microscope and even an atom...   Aug 25 2005, 09:02 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Actually, there is one real reason to wish it had ...   Aug 25 2005, 08:25 PM
|- - Gsnorgathon   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Aug 25 2005, 08:25 PM)Ac...   Aug 26 2005, 07:33 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Gsnorgathon @ Aug 26 2005, 07:33 AM)Is...   Aug 26 2005, 07:47 AM
- - Decepticon   Another issue I have is the depth that the lander ...   Aug 26 2005, 12:21 AM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Decepticon @ Aug 26 2005, 12:21 AM)Ano...   Aug 26 2005, 12:52 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Yep -- and I can tell you they're virtually ce...   Aug 26 2005, 03:04 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   I've been told flatly by Peter Smith: can...   Aug 26 2005, 01:01 PM
|- - tedstryk   Again I will say, lets be honest. We are image ju...   Aug 26 2005, 02:06 PM
|- - paxdan   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Aug 26 2005, 03:06 PM)Again...   Aug 26 2005, 10:36 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   Imagine if Phoenix had set down where Opportunity ...   Aug 26 2005, 10:47 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (paxdan @ Aug 26 2005, 11:36 PM)...but ...   Aug 26 2005, 11:17 PM
|- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (helvick @ Aug 26 2005, 04:17 PM)As one...   Aug 27 2005, 12:19 AM
- - gpurcell   I agree..but I also think we're going to find ...   Aug 26 2005, 02:50 PM
- - Decepticon   Can phoenix be put into Hibernation during the win...   Aug 26 2005, 02:54 PM
- - Gsnorgathon   I dunno if there will be a rise 15 meters away, or...   Aug 26 2005, 08:33 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   It can't be put into hiberation any more than ...   Aug 26 2005, 09:19 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Bob, the really big qualitative difference between...   Aug 27 2005, 01:05 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Aug 27 2005, 02:05 AM)Bo...   Aug 27 2005, 01:15 AM
||- - algorimancer   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Aug 26 2005, 08:15 PM)As fo...   Aug 30 2005, 06:07 PM
|- - gpurcell   Bruce, I really wonder about that. I really think...   Aug 27 2005, 02:27 AM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (gpurcell @ Aug 27 2005, 03:27 AM)Bruce...   Aug 27 2005, 05:31 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Once again: the reason they're willing to fly ...   Aug 27 2005, 05:05 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Network missions aside (and of course very small l...   Aug 28 2005, 12:30 AM
- - RNeuhaus   I think that the "main problem" of the P...   Aug 29 2005, 03:23 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Aug 29 2005, 03:23 PM)1) la...   Aug 29 2005, 03:36 PM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (djellison @ Aug 29 2005, 10:36 AM)1) C...   Aug 29 2005, 03:56 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (djellison @ Aug 29 2005, 03:36 PM)1) C...   Aug 29 2005, 04:50 PM
- - djellison   Phoenix is important as a GRS groundtruth for near...   Aug 29 2005, 04:01 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Bruce said: "As a way to investigate Meridia...   Aug 29 2005, 04:31 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Aug 29 2005, 04:31 PM)Br...   Aug 29 2005, 04:53 PM
|- - vjkane2000   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Aug 29 2005, 09:53 AM)we ne...   Aug 29 2005, 11:08 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (vjkane2000 @ Aug 29 2005, 11:08 PM)Whi...   Aug 30 2005, 12:27 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Yeah -- it was actually sloppy language on my part...   Aug 29 2005, 05:26 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Aug 29 2005, 05:26 PM)Ye...   Aug 29 2005, 08:43 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Detection of relatively recently exposed ice -- or...   Aug 30 2005, 06:24 PM
- - craigmcg   what impact will the descent thrusters have on the...   Aug 31 2005, 01:06 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (craigmcg @ Aug 31 2005, 02:06 AM)what ...   Aug 31 2005, 11:19 AM
|- - Marcel   QUOTE (craigmcg @ Aug 31 2005, 01:06 AM)what ...   Aug 31 2005, 12:13 PM
- - djellison   "As the ice starts advancing off Marsí northe...   Aug 31 2005, 01:56 PM
|- - Marcel   QUOTE (djellison @ Aug 31 2005, 01:56 PM)...   Aug 31 2005, 02:17 PM
- - RNeuhaus   The Phoenix's probably specific landing site w...   Aug 31 2005, 04:42 PM


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