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NASA Briefs Preliminary Plume Findings from Moon Mission
briv1016
post Nov 10 2009, 09:26 PM
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http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2009/nov/H...S_briefing.html
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tanjent
post Nov 15 2009, 04:41 AM
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Regarding the comparison of water to gold, remember that on the moon, water will be needed in much greater quantities than gold. This applies whether the need is for human consumption or, broken into its elemental components, as a fuel source. In the lunar environment, water would be more difficult to process than gold in one important respect - the gold wouldn't need to be constantly confined to prevent its escape to the vacuum of space. Any attempt to set up shop and utilize trace amounts of lunar water will have to invest heavily just in thermal insulation alone, otherwise those trace amounts are going to prove very difficult to corner. Remember those discarded Russian RTG's in Georgia that were located in the wintertime by hunters because they were surrounded by large circles of snow-free terrain? It's pretty hard to do industrial-scale work without generating waste heat, and at the local temperatures and vapor pressures prevailing in Cabeus, a little waste heat will quickly disrupt the delicate environmental balance that trapped the water in the first place.

This mission has told us a lot we didn't know. I'm intrigued by what these deposits can teach us when we determine where the water came from, and this should be answerable either by further work on the LCROSS data set or with some sort of sample return mission. But to significantly lower the costs of exploration we need at least a recognizable "dirty snowfield," not the Atacama desert.
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Holder of the Tw...
post Nov 15 2009, 05:56 AM
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As I recall from the blog site (someone correct me on this if I'm wrong), every bit of the hydrazine was successfully vented, or used.

QUOTE (tanjent @ Nov 14 2009, 10:41 PM) *
Any attempt to set up shop and utilize trace amounts of lunar water will have to invest heavily just in thermal insulation alone... But to significantly lower the costs of exploration we need at least a recognizable "dirty snowfield," not the Atacama desert.


I'm afraid I must disagree. In a vacuum, you don't have to invest heavily in thermal shielding. Proper reflection and disposal of waste heat (here, it would be upward toward the sky) and careful use of insulating materials in the proper location (thermally isolate the wheels on a rover, keep them cold) would enable the enviroment to be maintained as long as the rover didn't stay in one spot very long. Witness the Spitzer telescope, which maintains its innards during the current warm mission at 30 degree K, even in constant direct sunlight.

Earlier, use of the 100 ppm implanted regolith hydrogen was considered as a cost effective resource (by Harrison Schmidt, among others), even though it would require much higher roasting temperatures to obtain. Water ice will require less energy to get out.

As far as infrastructure, a landed vehicle could be refueled over time using its own propellant tanks for storage. You just need the rover dropping off its load multiple times.
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Posts in this topic
- briv1016   NASA Briefs Preliminary Plume Findings from Moon Mission   Nov 10 2009, 09:26 PM
- - stewjack   NASA TV Schedule November 13, Friday 10 a.m. - Co...   Nov 12 2009, 05:43 PM
- - Holder of the Two Leashes   News conference is ready to start right now. Edit...   Nov 13 2009, 04:59 PM
- - Phil Stooke   NIR pic of the crater - nice! Phil   Nov 13 2009, 05:08 PM
- - Holder of the Two Leashes   Infrared detection of water vapor and ice, ultravi...   Nov 13 2009, 05:21 PM
|- - Juramike   QUOTE (Holder of the Two Leashes @ Nov 13 200...   Nov 13 2009, 08:40 PM
||- - Holder of the Two Leashes   QUOTE (Juramike @ Nov 13 2009, 02:40 PM) ...   Nov 13 2009, 10:01 PM
|- - stevesliva   QUOTE (Holder of the Two Leashes @ Nov 13 200...   Nov 13 2009, 11:23 PM
- - glennwsmith   Cool!!!!!!!!!...   Nov 13 2009, 05:45 PM
- - bugs_   Congratulations LCROSS team. Incredible. You guy...   Nov 13 2009, 07:10 PM
- - Webscientist   Great News from this not so boring moon! Is t...   Nov 13 2009, 07:45 PM
- - remcook   Cool! Did they say why the hydroxyl signal le...   Nov 13 2009, 07:52 PM
|- - ustrax   From the press release: "there are hints of o...   Nov 13 2009, 08:45 PM
- - nprev   Apparently, there's evidence of at least simpl...   Nov 13 2009, 08:47 PM
- - P Hayne   QUOTE (remcook @ Nov 13 2009, 11:52 AM) D...   Nov 13 2009, 09:06 PM
- - ngunn   Before the specific mention of methane as a 'p...   Nov 13 2009, 10:23 PM
|- - Beauford   QUOTE (ngunn @ Nov 13 2009, 04:23 PM) Bef...   Nov 13 2009, 10:38 PM
|- - SFJCody   QUOTE (ngunn @ Nov 13 2009, 10:23 PM) Bef...   Nov 13 2009, 10:55 PM
- - Fran Ontanaya   They said the plume was magnitude 8 and had a narr...   Nov 13 2009, 11:38 PM
- - elakdawalla   Re: what else other than water was in the plume: C...   Nov 13 2009, 11:46 PM
- - Gsnorgathon   Any idea what mass fraction that 100kg represents?...   Nov 14 2009, 12:46 AM
|- - ngunn   QUOTE (Gsnorgathon @ Nov 14 2009, 12:46 A...   Nov 14 2009, 09:03 AM
- - nprev   Rats. Swear I saw an estimate for the dimensions o...   Nov 14 2009, 01:11 AM
- - tanjent   Colaprete mentioned that at the time the target wa...   Nov 14 2009, 03:07 AM
- - elakdawalla   The Centaur crater is 20 or 30 meters in diameter.   Nov 14 2009, 03:54 AM
- - nprev   Thanks, Emily. Well, here's my (probably wron...   Nov 14 2009, 04:43 AM
- - nprev   Actually, thinking about this some more, I don...   Nov 14 2009, 09:41 AM
- - Fran Ontanaya   It could be from the strength of the spectral sign...   Nov 14 2009, 01:02 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Fran Ontanaya @ Nov 14 2009, 08:02...   Nov 14 2009, 05:41 PM
|- - Zvezdichko   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Nov 14 2009, 06:41...   Nov 14 2009, 06:08 PM
|- - P Hayne   QUOTE (Zvezdichko @ Nov 14 2009, 10:08 AM...   Nov 14 2009, 07:44 PM
- - remcook   My guess for the additional fitted gases in their ...   Nov 14 2009, 05:43 PM
- - nprev   Z, the crater diameter is actually 20-30 meters, n...   Nov 14 2009, 07:44 PM
- - ngunn   Well we've now got three estimates in the same...   Nov 14 2009, 08:33 PM
|- - Holder of the Two Leashes   I really appreciated Colaprete being willing to op...   Nov 14 2009, 10:27 PM
|- - PFK   Just out of interest - what would the total organi...   Nov 15 2009, 12:00 AM
|- - P Hayne   QUOTE (PFK @ Nov 14 2009, 04:00 PM) Just ...   Nov 15 2009, 04:44 AM
- - Phil Stooke   I've put together a little finder guide to the...   Nov 14 2009, 09:01 PM
- - Fran Ontanaya   But you are using estimates for pure, solid ice an...   Nov 14 2009, 09:52 PM
|- - P Hayne   QUOTE (Fran Ontanaya @ Nov 14 2009, 01:52...   Nov 15 2009, 04:39 AM
- - nprev   That's an excellent point.   Nov 15 2009, 12:08 AM
- - Phil Stooke   I don't know offhand but it's obviously ve...   Nov 15 2009, 01:13 AM
- - tanjent   Regarding the comparison of water to gold, remembe...   Nov 15 2009, 04:41 AM
|- - Holder of the Two Leashes   As I recall from the blog site (someone correct me...   Nov 15 2009, 05:56 AM
- - nprev   Did the Centaur actually have hydrazine? The main ...   Nov 15 2009, 04:47 AM
|- - P Hayne   QUOTE (nprev @ Nov 14 2009, 08:47 PM) Did...   Nov 15 2009, 04:55 AM
- - Geert   Last night we had quite a bit of rain here in the ...   Nov 16 2009, 06:26 AM
- - nprev   Um...we're sorry?   Nov 16 2009, 06:36 AM
- - Stu   Better get under cover Geert; there should be a na...   Nov 16 2009, 06:41 AM
- - JohnVV   QUOTE No kidding, this is the official news bullet...   Nov 16 2009, 07:20 AM
- - marsophile   One interesting question is: to what degree does t...   Nov 16 2009, 06:12 PM
- - Holder of the Two Leashes   I don't have the LRO results. This paper, whi...   Nov 16 2009, 06:49 PM
|- - PFK   Just to be clear, when I mentioned the organic con...   Nov 16 2009, 10:50 PM
- - nprev   Most of the organics on the booster would presumab...   Nov 17 2009, 12:35 AM
- - Phil Stooke   There is also a lot of doubt about how a manufactu...   Nov 17 2009, 01:29 AM
- - Greg Hullender   Note that the impact was at only 2.5 kps. http://...   Nov 17 2009, 05:25 AM
- - marsbug   New scientist has confused me. I know I shouldn...   Nov 20 2009, 03:52 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (marsbug @ Nov 20 2009, 07:52 AM) N...   Nov 20 2009, 04:01 PM
|- - marsophile   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Nov 20 2009, 09:01 AM...   Nov 20 2009, 06:20 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (marsophile @ Nov 20 2009, 10:20 AM...   Nov 20 2009, 06:52 PM
- - marsbug   I think you're right!   Nov 20 2009, 04:11 PM
- - Ron Hobbs   I think you all may find the comments of William M...   Nov 20 2009, 06:53 PM


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