IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

18 Pages V  « < 2 3 4 5 6 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Hayabusa Post-Landing & Science Results
pandaneko
post Jul 5 2010, 02:42 PM
Post #46


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 538
Joined: 17-April 10
From: Kamakura, Japan
Member No.: 5323



QUOTE (pandaneko @ Jul 5 2010, 10:52 PM) *
2. Date and timing: 19:15 local 5 July

They found 2 grains of about 1/100 mm in size on the inside surface of the cannister and they were recovered.

Pandaneko



Something I neglected, in my haste to translate the main (?) points about the inside surface is that they also found a dozen 1 mm sized grains on the outer surface of the cannister. They were even visible by naked eyes.

I just wonder where they came from... Woomera?

Pandaneko

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
pandaneko
post Jul 5 2010, 03:04 PM
Post #47


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 538
Joined: 17-April 10
From: Kamakura, Japan
Member No.: 5323



QUOTE (pandaneko @ Jul 5 2010, 11:42 PM) *
Something I neglected, in my haste to translate the main (?) points about the inside surface is that they also found a dozen 1 mm sized grains on the outer surface of the cannister. They were even visible by naked eyes.

I just wonder where they came from... Woomera?

Pandaneko


Here again, I am totally at a loss. My understanding is that the cannister, at least the outer cannister surface was bombarded with dry ice particles and then plasma treated to remove its thin outer layer.

My assumption then was that the inner tube was in tact. So, why did they find visible particles on the outer skin of the inner tube? Can anybody help?

Pandaneko

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ElkGroveDan
post Jul 5 2010, 04:04 PM
Post #48


Senior Member
****

Group: Admin
Posts: 4657
Joined: 15-March 05
From: Sloughhouse, CA
Member No.: 197



QUOTE (pandaneko @ Jul 5 2010, 06:52 AM) *
10,000 Earth grains may have resided in the cannister in the first place before launch, given the storage condition of the capsule before launch! (How silly of them!)

So I am wondering WHERE they stored it. Outside the JAXA building in the flower beds? The beach? I am amazed that they didn't do a microscope analysis like the one planned for post-flight, prior to launch!


--------------------
If Occam had heard my theory, things would be very different now.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Stu
post Jul 5 2010, 04:06 PM
Post #49


The Poet Dude
****

Group: Moderator
Posts: 5548
Joined: 15-March 04
From: Kendal, Cumbria, UK
Member No.: 60



Sorry, my fault; it rolled under my sofa while I was looking after it. I thought I'd got it clean, but apparently not... laugh.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ElkGroveDan
post Jul 5 2010, 04:19 PM
Post #50


Senior Member
****

Group: Admin
Posts: 4657
Joined: 15-March 05
From: Sloughhouse, CA
Member No.: 197



The part where they lost the lid and decided to cover it with duct tape like you do when you lose the battery cover to your TV remote control probably had something to do with it.


--------------------
If Occam had heard my theory, things would be very different now.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
eoincampbell
post Jul 5 2010, 08:47 PM
Post #51


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 387
Joined: 28-August 07
From: San Francisco
Member No.: 3511



I hope we can get an official statement soon... the suspense is driving me "super-nuts"....


--------------------
'She drove until the wheels fell off...'
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
pandaneko
post Jul 5 2010, 11:57 PM
Post #52


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 538
Joined: 17-April 10
From: Kamakura, Japan
Member No.: 5323



QUOTE (eoincampbell @ Jul 6 2010, 05:47 AM) *
I hope we can get an official statement soon... the suspense is driving me "super-nuts"....


Did we know that there were two chambers inside the cannister? I am angry the way they provide info only bit by bit.

Anyway, this morning's Asahi Shimbun newspaper carried another article about the grains, even with a photo with the needle and the grain (I looked for the photo link, but I could not get it anywhere, even with other newspapers).

It said basically the same thing, except the existence of two chambers. So far, only one of them has been opened and "so far, two 0.01 mm size grains have been picked up". This "so far" may mean some more grains. That was the nuance of the article.

Those found on the outer skin are supposed be of Earth origin.

In any event Prof Kawaguchi said he was glad the cannister was not empty. I am not happy the way info is provided. I have not yet checked JAXA pages.

Pandaneko
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
pandaneko
post Jul 6 2010, 02:20 AM
Post #53


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 538
Joined: 17-April 10
From: Kamakura, Japan
Member No.: 5323



QUOTE (eoincampbell @ Jul 6 2010, 05:47 AM) *
I hope we can get an official statement soon... the suspense is driving me "super-nuts"....


A little more information.

1. JAXA Japanese website now carries an announcement about grain discovery, but it is so short and offers very little beyond newspaper reports. No info yet on English page site.

2. http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/zoom/20100705-OYT9I00953.htm

This is the photo from Nihon Keizai newspaper. Dark line is the needle shadow.

3. The same newspaper quoted Prof Kawaguchi's comment and it says he thinks those found on the outer skin (a dozen or so larger grains visible to naked eyes) and inside have equal probability of coming from Itokawa.

I am utterly confused now. Only yesterday newspaper reports were saying that the larger ones are supposed to be of Earth origin...

Pandaneko
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
pandaneko
post Jul 6 2010, 02:23 AM
Post #54


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 538
Joined: 17-April 10
From: Kamakura, Japan
Member No.: 5323




2. http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/zoom/20100705-OYT9I00953.htm

This is the photo from Nihon Keizai newspaper. Dark line is the needle shadow.

Admin, please delete this portion for copyright reasons.

Pandaneko
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nprev
post Jul 6 2010, 02:39 AM
Post #55


Senior Member
****

Group: Moderator
Posts: 7027
Joined: 8-December 05
From: Los Angeles
Member No.: 602



Pandaneko, don't be too distressed. In English-speaking countries at least, we're quite used to media confusion & inaccuracy in scientific matters. (This appears to be rather common in other non-English Western countries as well from what I gather).

It's therefore perhaps not too surprising that you may be seeing something similar in the mass Japanese media outlets concerning Hayabusa's findings.

Personally, I would have been surprised if the researchers had assumed that all exterior particles (within the reentry capsule but outside the sample container) were of terrestrial origin. After prolonged contact with Itokawa, it seems quite possible that a few dust particles from the asteroid might adhere to the capsule.


--------------------
A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ElkGroveDan
post Jul 6 2010, 03:23 AM
Post #56


Senior Member
****

Group: Admin
Posts: 4657
Joined: 15-March 05
From: Sloughhouse, CA
Member No.: 197



Let's not forget that a significant number of Itokawa particles surely rained down over Australia as Hayabusa burned up. Too bad we couldn't have captured the entire craft. But I'll still stand up and cheer for one small grain.


--------------------
If Occam had heard my theory, things would be very different now.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
pandaneko
post Jul 6 2010, 09:03 AM
Post #57


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 538
Joined: 17-April 10
From: Kamakura, Japan
Member No.: 5323



QUOTE (nprev @ Jul 6 2010, 11:39 AM) *
Personally, I would have been surprised if the researchers had assumed that all exterior particles (within the reentry capsule but outside the sample container) were of terrestrial origin. After prolonged contact with Itokawa, it seems quite possible that a few dust particles from the asteroid might adhere to the capsule.


I quite agree with you, actually. My gut feeling now is that all of the grains so far found are from Itokawa, because

1. Post-landing cleaning of the cannister, I cannot imagine that they did not do similar cleaning before launch.

2. The capsule came down by parachute. It must have been a gentle landing.

3. All newspaper reports so far say that all the sealings were found closed when the whole thing was brought into the curation room. How can Earth origin particles, no matter how small, could have got into the sealed system.

How exactly sealed, I do not know, of course. I had not even thought about the mechanism because I never thought it will come back.

4. I was not there to witness the landing on Itokawa, but from the CG I did see an extremely violent reverse shower due to retro firing and the escape velocity out there must be extremely small. On Earth, can you imagine 1 mm size particles, somehow, wiggling into the sealed system against gravity?

5. Can you also imagine that the team, when assembling the capsule, did not notice naked-eye visible grains on the outer surface of the inner tube? It is only a small tube, after all. And, you knew how small Itokawa grains could be when captured into the inner tube.

Pandaneko





Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Leither
post Jul 6 2010, 12:19 PM
Post #58


Junior Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 58
Joined: 1-August 06
From: Vienna, Austria
Member No.: 1002



BBC web page now showing JAXA picture of particles inside the container.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science_and_env...nt/10519895.stm

No doubt they are being ultra cautious as to their origin, but.......
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
pandaneko
post Jul 6 2010, 12:30 PM
Post #59


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 538
Joined: 17-April 10
From: Kamakura, Japan
Member No.: 5323



QUOTE (nprev @ Jul 6 2010, 11:39 AM) *
Pandaneko, don't be too distressed. In English-speaking countries at least, we're quite used to media confusion & inaccuracy in scientific matters. (This appears to be rather common in other non-English Western countries as well from what I gather).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB43JKnTo8Y

Above is the link to a press conference that took place on 5 July. No sound from the panell.

The announcer here is saying two things.

1. 0.01 mm grains were found inside the tube.

2. 1 mm size grains, about a dozen of them, were found on the outside of the inner tube.

3. One of the captions says that serious investigations will start from end of September.

By the way, other earlier newspaper reports said that investigations ( and in fact sample distribution) will start earlier, in August.

At this conference they were apparently saying that 1 mm grains are thought to have come from Earth. However, that was yesterday (5 July), and between this press briefing and this morning (6 July) Prof Kawaguchi must have mentioned to Nihon Keizai Shimbun newspaper, at least, that

he thinks that both inner and outter grains have equal probability of originating from Itokawa. That is my logical thinking by the look of the article carried by the same newspaper this morning (6 July).

Why prof Kawaguchi did not mention it at this briefing in the first place, I do not know. Perhaps, other press people except Nihon Keizai had left the venue earlier than Nihon Keizai reporters?

I really wish that they would send one of the 1 mm grains to NASA and see what they have to say before they go into summer vacation period...

Pandaneko



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
elakdawalla
post Jul 6 2010, 01:06 PM
Post #60


Bloggette par Excellence
****

Group: Admin
Posts: 4437
Joined: 4-August 05
From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth
Member No.: 454



Here's the [Google translated] link to the source of those images on the JAXA website: http://translate.googleusercontent.com/tra...cneaWy8vvX1fi1Q


--------------------
My blog - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

18 Pages V  « < 2 3 4 5 6 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 23rd September 2014 - 06:18 AM
RULES AND GUIDELINES
Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting.

IMAGE COPYRIGHT
Images posted on UnmannedSpaceflight.com may be copyrighted. Do not reproduce without permission. Read here for further information on space images and copyright.

OPINIONS AND MODERATION
Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators.
SUPPORT THE FORUM
Unmannedspaceflight.com is a project of the Planetary Society and is funded by donations from visitors and members. Help keep this forum up and running by contributing here.