My Assistant
MSL EDL Hardware, Its state & fate |
Aug 7 2012, 06:15 PM
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#1
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![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4271 Joined: 17-January 05 Member No.: 152 |
Bigger than that - at 0.12 deg/px and 650 m distance I get 1.36 m/px, so the cloud is roughly 70 or 80 m across/high.
From hirise I measure an azimuth of -71 deg for the DS impact. IF the rhaz is pointing exactly along the rover axis, then the centre of the rhaz frames should be at -66 (using rover azimuth 114 deg). But the cloud is left of centre frame. So using the above scale, I get the cloud to be between az -72 and -80 degrees. So a bit off. But the assumption of rhaz on axis could easily be out by a few degrees. In fact, I'm way more willing to accept a few degree offset than a DD that magically appeared as we landed! edit: that scale refers to the full res (1024 pix wide) image. |
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Aug 7 2012, 06:17 PM
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#2
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 46 Joined: 14-January 06 Member No.: 645 |
Looking at the HiRISE imagery of the descent stage, does the distribution of the debris field represent the disintegration of the stage from impact only, or is it possible that some or all of the 140+/- kilos of Hydrozine exploded and expanded the debris field? [I understand the darker albedo material is from below the surface]
Does the thin martian atmosphere contain enough oxygen to support combustion/explosion? [guessing No, but my chem is insufficient] Were the hydrazine cells sufficiently designed to survive impact intact? I couldn't find anything on the net or in the specs, any ideas? |
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Aug 7 2012, 06:33 PM
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#3
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![]() The Insider ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 669 Joined: 3-May 04 Member No.: 73 |
From hirise I measure an azimuth of -71 deg for the DS impact. IF the rhaz is pointing exactly along the rover axis, then the centre of the rhaz frames should be at -66 (using rover azimuth 114 deg). But the cloud is left of centre frame. So using the above scale, I get the cloud to be between az -72 and -80 degrees. So a bit off. But the assumption of rhaz on axis could easily be out by a few degrees. The dust cloud could have drifted somewhat since the crash. Looking at the crests of those black dunes, it appears that the prevailing winds are roughly north to south. If we're looking at west-northwest with the rear hazcam, I find it plausible that some drifting toward the left may have occurred due to wind. Since we now have the direction roughly correct, it all depends on the exact timing of the images to really nail it down. |
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Aug 7 2012, 10:17 PM
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#4
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 166 Joined: 20-September 05 From: North Texas Member No.: 503 |
The dust cloud could have drifted somewhat since the crash. Looking at the crests of those black dunes, it appears that the prevailing winds are roughly north to south. If we're looking at west-northwest with the rear hazcam, I find it plausible that some drifting toward the left may have occurred due to wind. Since we now have the direction roughly correct, it all depends on the exact timing of the images to really nail it down. Since the parachute landed generally south of the line of the other impactors, we can safely assume that the wind was from north to south, which might support that hypothesis of a drifting cloud of dust. But of course, the parachute was drifting with the winds above the ground. We don't know for certain that the wind at the surface was also from north to south. David |
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Aug 7 2012, 11:12 PM
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#5
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![]() Forum Contributor ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1374 Joined: 8-February 04 From: North East Florida, USA. Member No.: 11 |
Since the parachute landed generally south of the line of the other impactors, we can safely assume that the wind was from north to south, which might support that hypothesis of a drifting cloud of dust. But of course, the parachute was drifting with the winds above the ground. We don't know for certain that the wind at the surface was also from north to south. David Don't forget the DS does a rather large avoidance maneuver to prevent the back shell/parachute from impacting the DS as it slows down. |
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bigdipper MSL EDL Hardware Aug 7 2012, 06:17 PM
ugordan QUOTE (bigdipper @ Aug 7 2012, 08:17 PM) ... Aug 7 2012, 06:24 PM
kwan3217 QUOTE (ugordan @ Aug 7 2012, 11:24 AM) No... Aug 7 2012, 06:43 PM
Skyrunner QUOTE (kwan3217 @ Aug 7 2012, 08:43 PM) I... Aug 7 2012, 07:05 PM
dvandorn The image of the descent stage impact site(s) is r... Aug 7 2012, 06:34 PM
Explorer1 When it comes to finding the ballast impacts, reme... Aug 7 2012, 06:57 PM
Roby72 As for searching the ballast impacts sites I sugge... Aug 7 2012, 08:15 PM
atomoid MRO really got a good clear shot of everything in ... Aug 7 2012, 11:07 PM
gallen_53 QUOTE (atomoid @ Aug 7 2012, 11:07 PM) ..... Aug 7 2012, 11:39 PM
dmg QUOTE (gallen_53 @ Aug 7 2012, 04:39 PM) ... Aug 7 2012, 11:55 PM
NickF Are those three dark splodges in the crater NW of ... Aug 7 2012, 11:56 PM
gpurcell QUOTE (NickF @ Aug 7 2012, 05:56 PM) Are ... Aug 8 2012, 12:04 AM
elakdawalla Ah, good point. Still, one can deduce wind directi... Aug 7 2012, 11:24 PM
erwan QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Aug 7 2012, 11:24 PM... Aug 7 2012, 11:29 PM
fredk QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Aug 7 2012, 11:24 PM... Aug 7 2012, 11:37 PM
Holder of the Two Leashes QUOTE (bigdipper @ Aug 7 2012, 12:17 PM) ... Aug 7 2012, 11:33 PM
Explorer1 By aeroshell do you mean the heat shield or the ba... Aug 7 2012, 11:54 PM
john_s I seem to remember there was some concern that Opp... Aug 7 2012, 11:54 PM
MahFL QUOTE (john_s @ Aug 7 2012, 11:54 PM) I s... Aug 8 2012, 01:46 AM
gallen_53 QUOTE (MahFL @ Aug 8 2012, 01:46 AM) Reme... Aug 8 2012, 07:34 PM
kwan3217 QUOTE (gallen_53 @ Aug 8 2012, 01:34 PM) ... Aug 8 2012, 08:00 PM
gallen_53 QUOTE (kwan3217 @ Aug 8 2012, 09:00 PM) S... Aug 8 2012, 09:27 PM
James Sorenson I'm not sure if this was discussed, I apologiz... Aug 8 2012, 12:08 AM
fredk QUOTE (James Sorenson @ Aug 8 2012, 12:08... Aug 8 2012, 12:35 AM
Mongo QUOTE (fredk @ Aug 8 2012, 01:35 AM) Good... Aug 8 2012, 12:43 AM
nprev Please post all comments regarding the ancillary h... Aug 8 2012, 12:14 AM
Explorer1 James: if it is one of the ballast masses it's... Aug 8 2012, 12:25 AM
James Sorenson Okay thanks Explorer1. The dark ejecta from that f... Aug 8 2012, 12:33 AM
fredk Here are a couple more little dark splotches, that... Aug 8 2012, 12:46 AM
Explorer1 Yes, there's something to be said for a compli... Aug 8 2012, 12:48 AM
MahFL QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Aug 8 2012, 12:48 AM) ... Aug 8 2012, 01:39 AM
elakdawalla I'm glad I didn't have time to write up th... Aug 8 2012, 01:23 AM
James Sorenson WOW!! GM showes a rough distance of 2,300 ... Aug 8 2012, 01:27 AM
dvandorn Methinks if we ever use a skycrane type of landing... Aug 8 2012, 01:32 AM
B Bernatchez QUOTE (dvandorn @ Aug 7 2012, 08:32 PM) M... Aug 8 2012, 03:24 AM
dvandorn I've taken a closer look at the descent stage ... Aug 8 2012, 02:36 AM
fredk And we can see glints off the descent stage debris... Aug 8 2012, 02:59 AM
jklier Any chance HIRISE caught the skycrane phase of the... Aug 8 2012, 03:21 AM
Explorer1 If it had, we'd have seen it by now. Aug 8 2012, 03:25 AM
elakdawalla There was an interesting discussion about that on ... Aug 8 2012, 03:25 AM
James Sorenson Doug, according to the HiRISE images in GM, those ... Aug 8 2012, 03:27 AM
dvandorn QUOTE (James Sorenson @ Aug 7 2012, 10:27... Aug 8 2012, 03:34 AM
fredk Here's a flicker gif between two R rhaz frames... Aug 8 2012, 03:33 AM
James Sorenson Fred that is interesting! Looks the same to me... Aug 8 2012, 03:43 AM
fredk QUOTE (James Sorenson @ Aug 8 2012, 03:43... Aug 8 2012, 04:40 AM
elakdawalla I thought "lens flare" too, when I saw i... Aug 8 2012, 04:04 AM
dvandorn Well, even if we steer wide and clear of the desce... Aug 8 2012, 04:09 AM
Explorer1 There's a tiny spot just to the right of the s... Aug 8 2012, 04:18 AM
mcaplinger QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Aug 7 2012, 08:18 PM) ... Aug 8 2012, 05:31 AM
MarsInMyLifetime I have a hard time getting my head around the inte... Aug 8 2012, 06:52 AM
Kaputnik 200mph was the speed of the whole spacecraft under... Aug 8 2012, 07:07 AM
djellison QUOTE (MarsInMyLifetime @ Aug 7 2012, 11... Aug 8 2012, 07:13 AM
MarsInMyLifetime I could not find a predicted impact velocity, but ... Aug 8 2012, 09:37 AM
Hungry4info Marginally related, but now that we've firmly ... Aug 8 2012, 02:22 PM
ugordan QUOTE (Hungry4info @ Aug 8 2012, 04:22 PM... Aug 8 2012, 03:25 PM
eoincampbell We'll also see any shifting of the chute mater... Aug 8 2012, 02:28 PM
fredk Interesting thoughts, MarsInMyLifetime. If the ba... Aug 8 2012, 02:58 PM
gpurcell Given the extremely thin atmosphere on Mars I doub... Aug 8 2012, 03:24 PM
Explorer1 They found the ballasts! See the press conf... Aug 8 2012, 05:21 PM
JTN QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Aug 8 2012, 06:21 PM) ... Aug 8 2012, 06:01 PM
Oersted ...And well... The biggest visible opening in the ... Aug 8 2012, 06:11 PM
Explorer1 Yeah, they're really not as out of reach as wa... Aug 8 2012, 06:16 PM
charleski I haven't seen anyone talk about this, and it ... Aug 8 2012, 08:55 PM
Kaputnik QUOTE (charleski @ Aug 8 2012, 09:55 PM) ... Aug 8 2012, 08:59 PM
MaG QUOTE (charleski @ Aug 8 2012, 09:55 PM) ... Aug 8 2012, 09:02 PM
ugordan QUOTE (charleski @ Aug 8 2012, 10:55 PM) ... Aug 8 2012, 09:03 PM
gallen_53 QUOTE (charleski @ Aug 8 2012, 09:55 PM) ... Aug 8 2012, 09:12 PM
MoreInput QUOTE (charleski @ Aug 8 2012, 10:55 PM) ... Aug 8 2012, 09:39 PM
Ian R Given the phase angle here, could it be a shadow c... Aug 8 2012, 09:08 PM
ugordan A shadow would be placed pretty much in the middle... Aug 8 2012, 09:11 PM
elakdawalla C'mon, guys, Mike Caplinger answered that very... Aug 8 2012, 09:12 PM
charleski QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Aug 8 2012, 10:12 PM... Aug 8 2012, 09:33 PM
Bunker9603 QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Aug 8 2012, 05:12 PM... Aug 8 2012, 09:55 PM
elakdawalla It will be very simple to answer that question as ... Aug 8 2012, 10:16 PM
gallen_53 QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Aug 8 2012, 10:16 PM... Aug 8 2012, 11:30 PM
mcaplinger QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Aug 8 2012, 02:16 PM... Aug 9 2012, 12:41 AM
EdTruthan I recently found the forum here and have to say i... Aug 8 2012, 10:29 PM
Gladstoner . Aug 8 2012, 11:18 PM
DFinfrock Welcome to umsf! That's a great way to il... Aug 8 2012, 10:44 PM
fredk Great illustration, EdTruthan!
I'll look ... Aug 8 2012, 10:57 PM
Ian R It is, indeed, crud:
Aug 8 2012, 11:47 PM
gallen_53 QUOTE (Ian R @ Aug 9 2012, 12:47 AM) It i... Aug 8 2012, 11:58 PM
Oersted DPReview interview with Mike Ravine of Malin Space... Aug 9 2012, 12:36 AM![]() ![]() |
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