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Temperature and pressure at Gale, Suitable (for short periods) for liquid water?
Seryddwr
post Sep 30 2012, 03:23 PM
Post #31


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Just a quick query from someone with no background in science. Obviously, MSL has AFAIK not returned evidence of recent (i.e. years/decades) liquid water in its vicinity; however, I was interested by the following graphs:

08.21.2012: First Pressure Readings on Mars

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/images/?ImageID=4501

08.21.2012: Taking Mars' Temperature

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/images/?ImageID=4502

The first indicates that the pressure between 15 Aug and 18 Aug never dropped below c. 690 millibars; the second shows that, for a period of a couple of hours on 16 Aug, the temperature rose above freezing. If water had been present on the surface, then, would it have been liquid during this brief period? The pressure and temperature seemed to satisfy the conditions for liquid water as I understand them (indeed, the pressure seems to be high enough (just) on a 24-hour basis to allow for the presence of liquid water). Thanks in advance for your opinions (corroborative or not!) on this.
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- Seryddwr   Temperature and pressure at Gale   Sep 30 2012, 03:23 PM
- - mshell   I searched the web and couldn't find a phase d...   Oct 1 2012, 09:04 PM
|- - vikingmars   QUOTE (mshell @ Oct 1 2012, 11:04 PM) I u...   Oct 2 2012, 07:59 AM
|- - serpens   QUOTE (vikingmars @ Oct 2 2012, 08:59 AM)...   Oct 2 2012, 08:20 AM
||- - vikingmars   QUOTE (serpens @ Oct 2 2012, 10:20 AM) ...   Oct 2 2012, 09:31 AM
||- - serpens   QUOTE (vikingmars @ Oct 2 2012, 10:31 AM)...   Oct 2 2012, 04:31 PM
||- - Tom Dahl   QUOTE (vikingmars @ Oct 2 2012, 05:31 AM)...   Oct 2 2012, 04:50 PM
|- - Eyesonmars   QUOTE (vikingmars @ Oct 2 2012, 08:59 AM)...   Oct 2 2012, 06:09 PM
|- - vikingmars   QUOTE (Eyesonmars @ Oct 2 2012, 08:09 PM)...   Oct 3 2012, 08:15 AM
- - djellison   Beautiful work mshell - that you very much ( and G...   Oct 1 2012, 09:09 PM
- - nprev   Indeed, I can only echo the Chairman of UMSF's...   Oct 2 2012, 12:08 AM
- - marsophile   That is a fine statement of first-order behavior, ...   Oct 2 2012, 06:23 AM
- - Harder   As mshell rightly mentions, the phase diagram is f...   Oct 2 2012, 07:31 AM
|- - marsophile   QUOTE (Harder @ Oct 1 2012, 11:31 PM) ......   Oct 2 2012, 03:10 PM
- - abalone   What would also be interesting is the depth below ...   Oct 2 2012, 07:46 AM
|- - Explorer1   On a related note, did anything ever come of the ...   Oct 2 2012, 08:10 AM
- - abalone   An interesting paper http://online.liebertpub.com/...   Oct 3 2012, 03:17 AM
- - mshell   This is an update of my up-thread post here where ...   Oct 5 2012, 07:44 PM
- - Explorer1   Very impressive work Mark! So the pressure wil...   Oct 5 2012, 09:10 PM
- - mshell   In a private message to me, Eyesonmars indicated t...   Oct 11 2012, 04:43 AM
- - Explorer1   There's also the fact that the Martian axis is...   Oct 11 2012, 06:38 AM
- - Eyesonmars   Calculations suggest that the obliquity of Mars va...   Oct 11 2012, 06:05 PM
|- - Gsnorgathon   QUOTE (Eyesonmars @ Oct 11 2012, 10:05 AM...   Oct 11 2012, 07:14 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (Gsnorgathon @ Oct 11 2012, 12:14 P...   Oct 11 2012, 08:23 PM
|- - Eyesonmars   Of course, I do have it backward. Atmospheric mas...   Oct 11 2012, 08:45 PM
|- - Eyesonmars   QUOTE Although the albedo effect resulted in thick...   Oct 11 2012, 09:14 PM
- - serpens   I've never been able to get my mind around the...   Oct 11 2012, 10:06 PM
- - climber   I watched the jump record of Baumgartner a few min...   Oct 14 2012, 06:26 PM
- - MichaelT   Dear all, I am trying to find out if it is possib...   Nov 1 2012, 09:46 AM
|- - marsophile   QUOTE (MichaelT @ Nov 1 2012, 02:46 AM) D...   Nov 1 2012, 03:37 PM
|- - MichaelT   Thanks Marsophile! That is exactly what I h...   Nov 1 2012, 04:16 PM
|- - PaulH51   Has anyone been able to extract usable REMS data f...   Mar 6 2013, 09:23 AM
- - djellison   No - as the PDS release clearly states, they are r...   Mar 6 2013, 04:25 PM
- - jmknapp   The columns are listed in this file: http://atmos...   Mar 6 2013, 08:05 PM
- - fredk   Mods - shouldn't these last few posts go in th...   Mar 6 2013, 08:57 PM
- - jmknapp   Took a look at an air temperature curve from the u...   Mar 7 2013, 02:14 AM
|- - PaulH51   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Mar 7 2013, 10:14 AM) To...   Mar 7 2013, 07:20 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (PaulH51 @ Mar 6 2013, 11:20 PM) Ho...   Mar 7 2013, 12:23 PM
- - jmknapp   March 20th would put it during their upcoming conf...   Mar 7 2013, 12:56 PM
|- - PaulH51   Thanks Joe, I envy your skills in extracting the d...   Mar 7 2013, 01:37 PM
- - djellison   The REMS instrument isn't a NASA/JPL instrumen...   Mar 7 2013, 03:28 PM
|- - PaulH51   QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 7 2013, 11:28 PM) ...   Mar 7 2013, 11:44 PM
- - jmknapp   It'll be interesting to compare to the calibra...   Mar 7 2013, 09:01 PM
|- - Gerald   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Mar 7 2013, 10:01 PM) .....   Mar 8 2013, 12:57 PM
|- - SpaceListener   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Mar 7 2013, 04:01 PM) It...   Mar 8 2013, 03:25 PM
- - CosmicRocker   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Mar 7 2013, 06:56 AM) .....   Mar 8 2013, 08:33 AM
- - jmknapp   Gerald, it may be correlated because the ASIC chip...   Mar 8 2013, 06:27 PM
- - Gerald   You are right: It's hard to tell, in which way...   Mar 8 2013, 07:30 PM
- - jmknapp   Here's a quick-and-dirty chart of the temperat...   Mar 12 2013, 10:21 AM
- - jmknapp   A couple of plots generated from the REMS data fee...   Aug 14 2013, 10:46 AM
|- - vikingmars   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Aug 14 2013, 12:46 PM) T...   Aug 15 2013, 09:46 AM
|- - PaulH51   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Aug 14 2013, 06:46 PM) D...   Aug 15 2013, 10:02 AM
- - jmknapp   Paul-- Good idea--I was trying to see how I could ...   Aug 15 2013, 12:16 PM
- - jmknapp   OK, here are the plots with selectable units: Tem...   Aug 15 2013, 03:57 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Aug 15 2013, 10:57 AM) O...   Aug 15 2013, 09:23 PM
|- - vikingmars   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Aug 15 2013, 05:57 PM) O...   Aug 18 2013, 12:09 PM
- - jmknapp   I put in a dotted line to mark the H2O freezing po...   Aug 16 2013, 07:02 PM
- - Explorer1   Looks like the colors at around sol 73 or so are s...   Aug 16 2013, 08:16 PM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Aug 16 2013, 04:16 PM)...   Aug 16 2013, 08:30 PM
|- - Deimos   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Aug 16 2013, 08:30 PM) T...   Aug 16 2013, 10:13 PM
- - Harder   The dotted line at 32 F is too pessimistic when yo...   Aug 16 2013, 09:17 PM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (Harder @ Aug 16 2013, 05:17 PM) An...   Aug 16 2013, 11:54 PM
|- - Harder   The term "explode" came to my mind from ...   Aug 17 2013, 04:11 PM
||- - jmknapp   QUOTE (Harder @ Aug 17 2013, 12:11 PM) I ...   Aug 17 2013, 05:55 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Aug 16 2013, 04:54 PM) t...   Aug 17 2013, 04:45 PM
- - Explorer1   The lowest regions of the planet do have higher pr...   Aug 17 2013, 04:46 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Aug 17 2013, 08:46 AM)...   Aug 17 2013, 04:55 PM
- - Explorer1   That's the point I was making as well; unlike ...   Aug 17 2013, 06:23 PM
- - Harder   I stand corrected.. Where I went too fast was in a...   Aug 17 2013, 08:28 PM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (Harder @ Aug 17 2013, 04:28 PM) I...   Aug 17 2013, 11:39 PM
|- - PaulH51   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Aug 18 2013, 07:39 AM) ....   Aug 19 2013, 03:03 AM
|- - Gerald   QUOTE (PaulH51 @ Aug 19 2013, 05:03 AM) I...   Aug 19 2013, 11:07 AM
|- - PaulH51   QUOTE (Gerald @ Aug 19 2013, 07:07 PM) Ne...   Aug 19 2013, 12:53 PM
- - Explorer1   I do wonder if the Exomars rover's drill would...   Aug 17 2013, 10:16 PM
- - serpens   It is a little difficult to correlate the theories...   Aug 17 2013, 11:28 PM
- - Gerald   If, as it looks, perchlorates are more or less ubi...   Aug 18 2013, 12:29 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Gerald @ Aug 17 2013, 04:29 PM) Su...   Aug 18 2013, 01:49 AM
- - Gerald   At 10 mbar the boiling point of a saturated Mg(ClO...   Aug 18 2013, 03:52 AM
- - jmknapp   I sent them an email to ask if they could add the ...   Aug 19 2013, 10:11 AM
|- - Deimos   Re: the IR sky sensor: Spirit and Opportunity had ...   Aug 19 2013, 02:11 PM
- - jmknapp   Thanks Deimos--didn't know that MiniTES did th...   Aug 19 2013, 02:47 PM
- - djellison   With MSL - the pointing problems mainly stem from ...   Aug 19 2013, 06:10 PM
- - jmknapp   Looks like they've resumed updating the REMS d...   Aug 21 2013, 11:03 AM
- - Gerald   That's probably the most beautiful phase diagr...   Aug 23 2013, 04:44 PM
- - jmknapp   Or, as Harder and you have mentioned, throw enough...   Aug 23 2013, 06:38 PM
- - Deimos   I may mangle this, and I'll certainly oversimp...   Aug 23 2013, 07:45 PM
- - nprev   That rings true to me, Deimos. I was even more sim...   Aug 24 2013, 03:12 PM
- - jmknapp   Yes, Deimos, thanks for simplifying it--can sort o...   Aug 24 2013, 05:11 PM
- - Drkskywxlt   Yes, the repeatable pressure variations that REMS ...   Aug 30 2013, 04:06 PM
- - jmknapp   FYI, the SETI Institute has a talk scheduled for 1...   May 12 2014, 01:43 AM
- - jmknapp   FWIW, the high temperature for the last few sols h...   Sep 12 2014, 02:27 AM
|- - Vultur   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Sep 12 2014, 03:27 AM) T...   Sep 12 2014, 05:23 AM
|- - Gerald   QUOTE (nprev @ Sep 12 2014, 05:29 AM) I w...   Sep 12 2014, 09:25 AM
- - serpens   Those anomalous dips in both max and min temperatu...   Sep 12 2014, 02:57 AM
- - nprev   The data could've been corrupted in a variety ...   Sep 12 2014, 03:29 AM
- - jmknapp   The link to ground temperature on that page will s...   Sep 12 2014, 09:31 AM
- - Gerald   Near the boundary of high- and low-thermal-inertia...   Sep 12 2014, 09:47 AM
- - jmknapp   Ah, those are good points. Around sol 678 here...   Sep 12 2014, 10:15 AM
- - jmknapp   Pressure throughout the day over the first ~540 so...   Sep 17 2014, 12:15 PM
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