[X] My Assistant

[Wes]

I've been percolating on these spherules for a while now, and while trying to fathom how they could have formed, I have to keep reminding myself that conditions on the surface are a lot different than here on Earth. We base many the theories we formulate on what we can relate to here on Earth.

For example, we don't get to experience many major meteor strikes. Especially meteor strikes significant enough to impart enough energy to splash and/or spray molten rock around. Nor did any of the rare examples of energetic strikes occur in in very, very cold and thin atmosphereic conditions. I'm just itching for someone to melt a bucket of rocks and fire a gun into it into a deep freeze. Or drop the molten juice from a very high-flying aircraft where it is cold and the droplets have a chance to "freeze" in a thin, cold atmosphere. What would the resulting spray/ejecta look like? Would the droplets freeze into a spherical shape? If its syrupy, would some of the droplets have a trailing "stem"? Would many of the "stems" break off on contact or erode more quickly, except the ones that happened to "spear" their way into some salty sludge where they got preserved?

Also, we ARE looking in a crater where the things we are looking at have been traumatized by another lesser meteor strike. What of what we are looking at is a result of that event, and what is a result of other processes and/or events?

Don't get me wrong. I would like nothing more than for these spherules to have been (or be!) alive. I just suspect we don't really have much experience with microscopic geologic physical processes under the conditions on Mars where gravity is much less, temperatures are much colder, and the atmosphere is much thinner. Things WILL act differently.

We don't even know what is common and what is rare because we don't have the experience. Yet. So many questions. So few answers.

[chaosman]

NASA thinks that both Meteor Strike and Vulcanism are not the cause of both, the spheres and the outcrop itself.

All the evidence is here:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/pre.../20040302a.html

So the only good explanation left is that the spheres are concretions...and (just my opinion) fossils/lifeforms. I think NASA is also cosidering that possiblity, but can't tell it to the public. The media hype would blow them away and they won't take the L... word into their moth before they have conclusive evidence. That may never be reached during the actual mission...

...but this is amazing stuff anyway...more that I ever dreamt of...

[Shimon]

http://www.aboh44.ukgateway.net/gallery/jordan4.html
Here is a pic of natural salt concretions in the Dead Sea on Earth. They occur as clumps as shown in pic or as rough-surfaced spheres that roll around on the sea bottom. The waters of the Dead Sea are super saturated with mainly sodium salts and phosphates. It could be that a sea on Mars would have left similar concretions as it dried up.
Here is a link to another pic of salt columns on the Dead Sea shoreline. They have been weathered into weird shapes by wind and rain erosion. I can't recall seeing any neat stems like in the Mars pic.

http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~shand/images/Salt_pillar_high.JPG

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[chaosman]

That doesn't even come close to the marbles...well for the outcrop itself...there is a slight similarity.

[djellison]

I've been to the dead sea, and it just looks like it's full of Icebergs. Nothing like rock at all - it's just salt.

Doug

[chaosman]

Look at the attached image "shell_structures". This is part of a NASA image

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all...42P2375L7M1.jpg

(colored version is at http://www.keithlaney.com/OCI/O7.jpg ).


Is it just me or do I see indications of shell like, hollow structures ? (look at the shadows that indicate hollow structure (yellow arrows) ?

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[jmknapp]

I think that the "hollow" effect is a very common optical illusion in these types of shots. It's easy to get craters to look convex or concave in many MOC photos. Even the glorious ME shot of the Olympus Mons caldera, the largest known volcano in the solar system, is easily visualized as a hole in the ground!

What intrigues me about these shots of ground is the splotchy, thin surface coloring. Not sure if it might be a trick of light and shadow, but here is a close-up:



A single-celled organism might produce an effect like that. We know there is water near the surface at Meridiani and there is sunlight in this one of the warmest places on Mars, in an area that may have been inundated at one time.

[chaosman]

Huh..the color didn't came through.

This looks much too red.

Regarding the hollow structure.

There can be an optical illusion if there is only one feature to judge.

But I think in this case the situation is very clear.

There are lots of "normal" spheres and at least two hollow ones.

(See yellow arrow in ATTACHED image at very bottom of post !!!)

[chaosman]

Here is the attached image again.

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[lars_J]

There appears to be several spherules in the dirt there that have been split in half (or near half) - perhaps due to thermal stresses? I think those "shell" or "hollow" spherules are just split spherules that happened to split concave or convex, and then the sand has partially covered them.

[chaosman]

Very interesting indeed.

Seems that we have a couple of new interesting marbles in the newest images:


1. A flattened type (like a sphere deformed from pressure from one or two sites)

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all...44P2933M2M1.JPG


2. A marble with a "leaf like" substructure

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all...44P2953M2M1.JPG

(upper-left)


Does it point toward any haypothesis or against any hypothesis ?

Any explanations ? New Hypothesis ?

All I can say is "strange, strange, strange..." but that means nothing...

The "leaf" looks particular starange, doesn't it ?

[djellison]

Leaf like?

You mean the one that's split in two?

Some people have very active imaginations w.r.t. describing things

DOug

[chaosman]

Where do you see two ( one split in two ) ? I only see one with a "disk like" appendage (if you like that term more than "leaf").



wow !....

Look at that new one...at

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all...74P2952M2M1.JPG

It looks like (JUST SPECULATION !!!) the big "thing" has two "channels" connecting it to one of the marbles.

The lower left marble shows bifurcation (mirror symetry) again....

[djellison]

Where do you see two ( one split in two ) ? I only see one with a "disk like" appendage (if you like that term more than "leaf").
.

Sorry - I had the two mixed up. I cant see ANYTHING even slightly leaflike in the one you actually mean. I thought the one thats been split in two was what you were describing as leaf like (not that I would have thought as much myself)

I cant see any relation between the projected disk, and a leaf.

Oh - hang on. Now I get what you mean. Nahh - doesnt look like a leaf


Doug

[chaosman]

Well O.K.: Lets say "disc like feature".

But "projected disc" ???

What do you mean ?

I'm not longer sure we are talking about the same feature...what a pity :-(