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MSL - SAM and CHEMIN, Discussion of the science/results from these instruments |
Nov 21 2012, 11:46 AM
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#1
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![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 3108 Joined: 21-December 05 From: Canberra, Australia Member No.: 615 |
ADMIN NOTE: Hi All, a new topic for the discussion of the science from the SAM and Chemin instruments.
There has been a very important amendment to Rule 1.3 which is explained here. Please remember Rule 1.3 at all times when discussing matters in this section. |
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Nov 22 2012, 07:35 PM
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#2
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Newbie ![]() Group: Members Posts: 18 Joined: 17-May 05 From: FL & WV Member No.: 390 |
I have not seen any specific statements from the Curiosity science team regarding the ability of SAM to detect organics if perclorates are present in a soil/rock sample. Since SAM first heats the sample up to a high termperature (e.g., 1000 deg.) to vapaorize the sample, would this not destroy organics if perclorates are also present in that sample? Since we have known about the potential for perclorates in the Martian soil since the Pheonix results reported in 2008, I asume this has been considered in some detail by the Curiosity team. Anyone have any information on what level of perclorates would be sufficient to cause significant problems for SAM being able to detect organics (I assume that would also depend on the level of organics in the sample)?
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Nov 23 2012, 03:54 AM
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#3
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 507 Joined: 10-September 08 Member No.: 4338 |
...would this not destroy organics if perclorates are also present in that sample? All you have to do is wash the sample in water before pyrolyzing it. That would remove water-soluble components like perchlorate while retaining hydrophobic organic substances if any are present. I was under the impression that Curiosity has this capability or something like it. |
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Nov 23 2012, 06:49 AM
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#4
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Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2559 Joined: 13-September 05 Member No.: 497 |
All you have to do is wash the sample in water before pyrolyzing it...I was under the impression that Curiosity has this capability or something like it. Not that I'm aware of. SAM has its wet chemistry cells but the SAM instrument paper referenced above doesn't indicate that this is their purpose -- see section 4.6, "Solid Sample Measurements Based on Wet Chemical Processing". Note that Springer-Verlag has made all of the MSL instrument papers free-access until the end of the year, so there's no excuse not to read up if you're interested -- http://link.springer.com/journal/11214/170/1/page/1 -------------------- Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
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Astro0 MSL - SAM and CHEMIN Nov 21 2012, 11:46 AM
pospa MSL Status Report 11.20.2012:
"... Although C... Nov 21 2012, 05:24 PM
Fran Ontanaya Something for reference: http://proceedings.spiedi... Nov 21 2012, 06:45 PM
Don1 SAM is of course capable of detecting gases evolve... Nov 22 2012, 06:23 AM
nprev Mod note: Two posts discussing rule 1.3 changes mo... Nov 22 2012, 06:34 PM
mcaplinger QUOTE (RonJones @ Nov 22 2012, 12:35 PM) ... Nov 22 2012, 07:43 PM
marsophile QUOTE (marsophile @ Nov 22 2012, 08:54 PM... Nov 23 2012, 07:24 PM
nprev One fascinating finding would be if perchlorates a... Nov 22 2012, 07:44 PM
Burmese No data yet to work with until they present their ... Nov 22 2012, 08:55 PM
RonJones I suspect that if any new finding by MSL would be ... Nov 23 2012, 01:56 AM
nprev Very good comment, Burmese; thank you!
In gen... Nov 22 2012, 09:11 PM
Astro0 ADMIN NOTE: Can I remind everyone that this thread... Nov 23 2012, 02:30 AM
MrNatural Can we discuss SAM's stereochemistry capabilit... Nov 23 2012, 03:08 PM
mcaplinger QUOTE (MrNatural @ Nov 23 2012, 08:08 AM)... Nov 23 2012, 04:09 PM
stone QUOTE (MrNatural @ Nov 23 2012, 04:08 PM)... Feb 4 2013, 07:53 AM
elakdawalla Actually they're only free through Nov 30 -- o... Nov 23 2012, 05:18 PM
Don1 SAM has a number of different modes of operation. ... Nov 24 2012, 04:49 AM
Holder of the Two Leashes QUOTE (Don1 @ Nov 23 2012, 10:49 PM) On h... Nov 26 2012, 07:08 PM
Don1 QUOTE (Holder of the Two Leashes @ Nov 26 201... Nov 27 2012, 05:50 AM
Spin0 From AGU's 2012 Fall Meeting scientific progra... Nov 26 2012, 10:28 AM
elakdawalla Provided there's wi-fi or cellular signal, I... Nov 26 2012, 05:43 PM
vjkane QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Nov 26 2012, 09:43 A... Nov 26 2012, 06:54 PM
serpens I would suspect that the end products (and interme... Nov 27 2012, 04:40 AM
mcaplinger http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2012/pdf/2008... Nov 27 2012, 06:21 AM
serpens QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Nov 27 2012, 06:21 AM... Nov 27 2012, 11:18 PM
belleraphon1 AGU Press Conference Schedule:
http://fallmeeting.... Nov 27 2012, 01:01 PM
Lucas Well, this is interesting... apparently all the hy... Nov 28 2012, 04:57 PM
fredk It certainly does look like bad reporting, at leas... Nov 28 2012, 07:28 PM
EdTruthan Press release on the Dec. 3rd AGU press conference... Nov 29 2012, 08:58 PM
marsophile I have video but no audio of the press conference.... Dec 3 2012, 05:43 PM
fredk Details at the press release if anyone hasn't ... Dec 3 2012, 06:04 PM
dvandorn And yet the media still hear what they want to hea... Dec 3 2012, 06:59 PM
serpens QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 3 2012, 07:59 PM) A... Dec 3 2012, 10:07 PM

mcaplinger QUOTE (serpens @ Dec 3 2012, 03:07 PM) Pa... Dec 3 2012, 11:06 PM
MahFL QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 3 2012, 06:59 PM) A... Dec 3 2012, 10:58 PM
Hungry4info Well, in fairness, they did say they detected simp... Dec 3 2012, 07:02 PM
silylene The chlorinated methanes are interesting. CH3Cl, ... Dec 3 2012, 07:14 PM
nprev The discontinuity seems to be:
1. "Organics... Dec 3 2012, 11:08 PM
Antonb Not only was 'organic' not precisely defin... Dec 4 2012, 02:24 PM
JRehling If you currently do a Google News search for ... Dec 4 2012, 03:27 PM
Fran Ontanaya Can we go back to discussing the actual results. N... Dec 4 2012, 04:40 PM
marsophile For some context, we had the following results fro... Dec 4 2012, 04:43 PM
marsophile QUOTE (marsophile @ Dec 4 2012, 09:43 AM)... Dec 5 2012, 04:03 PM
dvandorn QUOTE (marsophile @ Dec 5 2012, 11:03 AM)... Dec 5 2012, 04:59 PM
mcaplinger QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 5 2012, 09:59 AM) W... Dec 5 2012, 07:51 PM

NickF QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Dec 5 2012, 01:51 PM)... Dec 5 2012, 08:47 PM

mcaplinger QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Dec 5 2012, 12:51 PM)... Dec 5 2012, 08:59 PM
stone QUOTE (dvandorn @ Dec 5 2012, 05:59 PM) W... Jan 31 2013, 10:47 PM
mcaplinger QUOTE (stone @ Jan 31 2013, 03:47 PM) I l... Feb 1 2013, 12:17 AM
stone ADMIN TIP: When replying to a post immediately pre... Feb 1 2013, 06:59 AM
Don1 I think we're looking at a work in progress wi... Dec 5 2012, 02:01 AM
djellison QUOTE (Don1 @ Dec 4 2012, 06:01 PM) I thi... Dec 5 2012, 02:20 AM
serpens QUOTE (Don1 @ Dec 5 2012, 02:01 AM) The m... Dec 5 2012, 08:32 AM
silylene As I suggested in my prior post in this thread, I ... Dec 5 2012, 07:29 PM
marsophile One thing that seems puzzling is why chloromethane... Dec 6 2012, 04:18 AM
Don1 Elements like potassium and sodium have several di... Dec 6 2012, 09:10 AM
Gerald For the 44th Lunar and Planetary Science Conferenc... Feb 1 2013, 07:11 PM
stone With the Viking data showing chlorohydrocarbons an... Feb 1 2013, 09:16 PM
marsophile The cited paper allows for the possibility that th... Feb 1 2013, 09:29 PM
stone QUOTE (marsophile @ Feb 1 2013, 10:29 PM)... Feb 2 2013, 11:12 AM
Don1 Yes there is news from SAM and it ain't good. ... Feb 2 2013, 09:28 AM
marsophile Couldn't they simply use up the supply of the ... Feb 3 2013, 01:38 AM
stone The MTBSTFA is used to search for amino acids and ... Feb 3 2013, 07:16 AM
marsophile Then it seems there is a catch-22 situation: They... Feb 4 2013, 03:41 AM
Mr Valiant I had no idea that the GC was so, so...definative.... Feb 4 2013, 11:27 AM
marsophile Drilling is probably the best bet for getting a pe... Feb 11 2013, 06:03 AM
stone If the perchlorates are ancient the vein should be... Feb 11 2013, 07:43 AM
rickyjames Could somebody please elaborate on the statement m... Feb 15 2013, 02:41 PM
stone "Although none of them have been punctured ye... Feb 15 2013, 05:07 PM
marsophile If the SAM and CHEMIN instruments performed measur... Mar 9 2013, 02:40 AM
stone The heating like done by SAM is not done often on ... Mar 9 2013, 10:52 AM
jmknapp Check this report of SAM tests on Earth:
Mars Sci... Mar 9 2013, 11:11 AM
stone I know what the SAM team had at AMASE in 2010 and ... Mar 9 2013, 04:44 PM
Don1 Many Mars meteorites contain organics at levels th... Mar 10 2013, 09:38 AM
stone The detection level is a very complicated topic fo... Mar 10 2013, 10:14 AM
fredk QUOTE (Don1 @ Mar 10 2013, 09:38 AM) ther... Mar 10 2013, 03:22 PM
Don1 QUOTE (fredk @ Mar 10 2013, 07:22 AM) But... Mar 10 2013, 08:17 PM
stone The MTBSTFA gives you a nice background and makes ... Mar 10 2013, 09:46 PM
xflare But don't we already know Mars has/had organic... Mar 10 2013, 10:50 AM
t_d QUOTE (xflare @ Mar 10 2013, 06:50 AM) Bu... Mar 10 2013, 01:11 PM
centsworth_II QUOTE (xflare @ Mar 10 2013, 05:50 AM) Bu... Mar 10 2013, 05:36 PM
Cardinal From what I can tell, the actual press conference ... Mar 11 2013, 08:28 PM
nprev Repeat: Don't get too excited. This will be an... Mar 11 2013, 08:43 PM
xflare QUOTE (nprev @ Mar 11 2013, 08:43 PM) Rep... Mar 11 2013, 09:45 PM
belleraphon1 Agree with nprev.
Analysis by CheMin and SAM of ... Mar 11 2013, 09:24 PM
jmknapp True--in terms of announcing subsystem firsts, the... Mar 11 2013, 09:56 PM
Don1 Today's announcement looks like a mixture of g... Mar 12 2013, 09:24 PM
marsophile Did they specifically identify perchlorate, or is ... Mar 12 2013, 10:15 PM
fredk All I remember is a statement that they saw perchl... Mar 12 2013, 11:12 PM
Don1 They see oxygen released at a temperature consiste... Mar 13 2013, 02:10 AM
t_d Wouldn't heating the sample for twenty minutes... Mar 13 2013, 03:20 AM
Phil Stooke Yes, and they measure them all.
Phil Mar 13 2013, 03:26 AM
centsworth_II Here is a transcript of SAM PI Paul Mahaffy's ... Mar 13 2013, 04:22 AM
elakdawalla I thought I heard "nanomoles," not ... Mar 13 2013, 04:35 AM
centsworth_II QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Mar 12 2013, 11:35 P... Mar 13 2013, 04:57 AM
Doug M. A number of articles are mentioning the presence o... Mar 13 2013, 08:55 AM
orbitmars P2O5 has been detected in Gusev, Meridiani and Gal... Mar 13 2013, 09:57 AM![]() ![]() |
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