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DART & HERA, NASA/ESA Asteroid Redirection Missions |
Nov 24 2021, 07:27 AM
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#1
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Merciless Robot ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 8791 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Surprised we didn't already have a thread. DART launched successfully at 0621 UTC today (23 Nov 21). Mission page here, encounter (as in collision) with small satellite of 65803 Didymos in late Sep/early Oct 2022.
-------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Sep 27 2022, 02:45 PM
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#2
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Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2119 Joined: 13-February 10 From: Ontario Member No.: 5221 |
Wow, those streamers, it looks quite catastrophic! Much more violent than the SCI on Ryugu, as expected!
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Sep 27 2022, 04:21 PM
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#3
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![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1098 Joined: 19-February 05 From: Close to Meudon Observatory in France Member No.: 172 |
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Sep 27 2022, 05:04 PM
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#4
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Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2559 Joined: 13-September 05 Member No.: 497 |
Dimorphos must be made of very loose material and may have been partially destroyed, if not entirely. Regardless of what the images look like, that seems very unlikely, at least if you believe "Spacecraft Geometry Effects on Kinetic Impactor Missions", Owen et al, https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/PSJ/ac8932/pdf However, they did a ton of work and then at the end QUOTE It seems likely, based on observations during the surface sampling in the OSIRIS-REx mission... that the weak material limit is the most likely case. In fact, if Dimorphos’ surface is as weak as that observed during the SCI experiment, it could be significantly weaker than even the weak limit presented here. I haven't read the paper in enough detail to know if their modeling is truly appropriate or just detailed but in an unrealistic way. But the spacecraft only had a mass of about 500 kg and Dimorphos is of order 10**7 more massive and DART wasn't going that fast. On the other hand, I was thinking of this: Han Solo: That's what I'm trying to tell you, kid; it ain't there... It's been totally blown away. -------------------- Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
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Sep 27 2022, 09:55 PM
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#5
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![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4271 Joined: 17-January 05 Member No.: 152 |
Regardless of what the images look like, that seems very unlikely My guess was also that it was extremely unlikely that Dimorphos could be destroyed. Then I did a spherical-cow/back-of-the-envelope calculation: For mass 535 kg at 6.65 km/s, DART had kinetic energy of around 10^10 J. For a radius of 80 m and density of around 1.86 g/cm^3 (as assumed in Owen etal), the gravitational binding energy of Dimorphos is -3/5 GM^2/R ~ -10^7 J. So DART had ~1000 times as much kinetic energy as would be needed to completely disperse Dimorphos (ie to "rest at infinity"), ignoring any mechanical cohesion in the moon. That was surprizingly high to me - I guess the point is gravity is weak and Dimorphos is small. Still, in reality that huge kinetic energy has to overcome mechanical cohesion and much of it will also go into heat, rather than overcoming gravitational potential energy. And of course much of the ejecta will greatly exceed escape velocity, so you're "overdispersing" a small amount of ejecta at the expense of "underdispersing" (or not dispersing at all) the rest. So in the end the destruction (or not) of the moon is determined by the mechanical and thermal details, which presumably Owen etal have modeled sufficiently. |
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Sep 27 2022, 10:23 PM
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#6
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Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2559 Joined: 13-September 05 Member No.: 497 |
I guess the point is gravity is weak and Dimorphos is small. If you believe "REACTION OF DIMORPHOS' STRUCTURE TO THE DART IMPACT" https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2021/pdf/2041.pdf then only 2.5e-3 of the kinetic energy isn't dissipated inelastically. That's still more than the gravitational binding energy, but I suspect the real system is a lot more complicated than any of these models. The whole concept of gravitational binding energy is somewhat abstract and ignores how the energy would be transported through the body, other sources of cohesion, etc. TBH, I'm still not quite sure how this mission came to be or if it really tells us anything practical about how to deflect asteroids, but it was cool -------------------- Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
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nprev DART & HERA Nov 24 2021, 07:27 AM
Antdoghalo Yay! We get to map two new objects for the pri... Nov 24 2021, 11:54 PM
Explorer1 I remember watching Deep Impact live; what an expe... Nov 25 2021, 12:15 AM
JRehling I had the thrilling good fortune to watch this lau... Nov 25 2021, 02:14 AM
stevesliva QUOTE (JRehling @ Nov 24 2021, 09:14 PM) ... Nov 25 2021, 04:18 AM
nprev True, but we will get some science nevertheless, a... Nov 25 2021, 03:43 AM
Marcin600 From NASA Twitter: 55 minutes into its flight, the... Nov 25 2021, 10:29 PM
JohnVV dose anyone have any news on any SPICE kernels for... Nov 26 2021, 12:42 AM
Tom Tamlyn QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Nov 24 2021, 07:15 PM)... Nov 26 2021, 03:40 AM
TrappistPlanets QUOTE (Tom Tamlyn @ Nov 26 2021, 04:40 AM... Nov 26 2021, 01:31 PM
nprev Good idea, since they are indeed closely related t... Nov 26 2021, 09:13 PM
monty python So much international effort almost serendipitousl... Nov 27 2021, 05:31 AM
Explorer1 I recall that Hera (originally called AIM) and DAR... Nov 27 2021, 03:02 PM
TrappistPlanets what would be the highest resolution image possibl... Nov 27 2021, 04:06 PM
Floyd I assume you mean images from the LICIACube. Goog... Nov 27 2021, 09:34 PM
TrappistPlanets QUOTE (Floyd @ Nov 27 2021, 10:34 PM) I a... Nov 28 2021, 12:17 PM
bobik Nice overview paper on ESA's Hera expedition. Jul 20 2022, 08:16 AM
Explorer1 Didymos ahead in DRACO!
Not much given they we... Sep 8 2022, 04:31 PM
Explorer1 LICIACube has been released. Sep 17 2022, 02:35 AM
Phil Stooke https://twitter.com/JHUAPL/status/1572409029640716... Sep 21 2022, 11:21 PM
jasedm Fascinated to see the results from this mission - ... Sep 22 2022, 09:35 AM
Explorer1 This brings me big memories of Deep Impact that su... Sep 22 2022, 02:03 PM
jasedm 5 hours to go......
https://www.youtube.com/watch... Sep 26 2022, 06:18 PM
Marcin600 Live Feed from NASA's DART Spacecraft on Appro... Sep 26 2022, 09:13 PM
Marcin600 live Sep 26 2022, 09:36 PM
Explorer1 Can't see the binary distinguished yet... but ... Sep 26 2022, 09:37 PM
Marcin600 still tiny Sep 26 2022, 09:43 PM
Marcin600 only artifacts? Sep 26 2022, 10:06 PM
Hungry4info On the stream they just mentioned that they're... Sep 26 2022, 10:09 PM
fredk Looks pretty convincing:
400% zoom with gamma twe... Sep 26 2022, 10:12 PM
Marcin600 yes Sep 26 2022, 10:27 PM
Explorer1 Target lock!
Didymos is already looking irreg... Sep 26 2022, 10:28 PM
Marcin600 things are speeding up Sep 26 2022, 10:36 PM
Hungry4info Didymos is now resolved. Sep 26 2022, 10:40 PM
Marcin600 bigger Sep 26 2022, 10:49 PM
Phil Stooke Beginning to see possible structure on the termina... Sep 26 2022, 10:55 PM
Marcin600 interesting shape, with a clearly protruding part ... Sep 26 2022, 10:56 PM
nprev Precision lock achieved!!! Sep 26 2022, 10:56 PM
Marcin600 two craters (?) and a "constriction" (?) Sep 26 2022, 11:03 PM
Phil Stooke A bit more detail. The protrusion will probably r... Sep 26 2022, 11:03 PM
Phil Stooke Getting clearer...
Phil
Sep 26 2022, 11:07 PM
Marcin600 craters (?) Sep 26 2022, 11:08 PM
Marcin600 more craters (?) Sep 26 2022, 11:12 PM
Phil Stooke .....!
Phil
Sep 26 2022, 11:14 PM
nprev IMPACT.
Absolutely incredible terminal images. Sep 26 2022, 11:18 PM
fredk The final full frame:
Sep 26 2022, 11:18 PM
nprev RE: DART & HERA Sep 26 2022, 11:20 PM
Explorer1 Wow! Takes me back to 14 years old....
And th... Sep 26 2022, 11:22 PM
CryptoEngineer QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Sep 26 2022, 06:22 PM)... Sep 26 2022, 11:40 PM
monty python QUOTE (CryptoEngineer @ Sep 26 2022, 06:4... Sep 27 2022, 06:43 AM
Marcin600 Congratulations on a beautiful whack! :-)
It w... Sep 26 2022, 11:27 PM
fredk The final partial frame:
and it's approximate... Sep 26 2022, 11:37 PM
Tom O'Reilly What is that light "bar" on the lower le... Sep 26 2022, 11:40 PM
Marcin600 QUOTE (Tom O'Reilly @ Sep 27 2022, 01... Sep 26 2022, 11:44 PM
StargazeInWonder This comparison has to be noted: Sep 27 2022, 12:01 AM
Tom O'Reilly QUOTE (Marcin600 @ Sep 26 2022, 03:44 PM)... Sep 27 2022, 02:28 AM
Marcin600 group portrait Sep 26 2022, 11:41 PM
Explorer1 Top of a huge boulder, mostly in shadow?
Press co... Sep 26 2022, 11:42 PM
Hungry4info Imaging of the DART impact plume from an Earth-bas... Sep 27 2022, 12:19 AM
Explorer1 Fascinating fact from the presser: looks like the ... Sep 27 2022, 12:32 AM
Marcin600 It seems to me that fragments of Didymos's sur... Sep 27 2022, 12:33 AM
Hungry4info Dimorphos mosaic (credit: zelario4) Sep 27 2022, 12:55 AM
Phil Stooke Nice view of the impact:
https://twitter.com/fall... Sep 27 2022, 03:36 AM
djellison This is the best stack of images I could wrangle f... Sep 27 2022, 06:25 AM
Phil Stooke Since there are no other craters, I don't thin... Sep 27 2022, 06:36 AM
Marcin600 QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Sep 27 2022, 08:36 A... Sep 27 2022, 08:30 AM
Phil Stooke I think Ranger 9 was the only one people actually ... Sep 27 2022, 07:05 AM
Brian Swift PNGs of a few images and downloadable 1080p video ... Sep 27 2022, 07:34 AM
xflare That impact debris/plume sequence is extraordinary... Sep 27 2022, 07:36 AM
Marcin600 https://www.nasa.gov/feature/dart-s-final-i...prio... Sep 27 2022, 09:00 AM
john_s I notice that the final partial frame appears some... Sep 27 2022, 01:44 PM
marsbug QUOTE (john_s @ Sep 27 2022, 02:44 PM) I ... Sep 27 2022, 04:17 PM
Explorer1 ASI Conference for LICIACube results is here Sep 27 2022, 02:21 PM
tolis Pictures! Sep 27 2022, 02:41 PM

vikingmars QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Sep 27 2022, 07:04 PM... Sep 27 2022, 07:42 PM


Explorer1 QUOTE (vikingmars @ Sep 27 2022, 02:42 PM... Sep 27 2022, 07:59 PM


climber QUOTE (vikingmars @ Sep 27 2022, 09:42 PM... Sep 28 2022, 06:38 AM
marsbug QUOTE (vikingmars @ Sep 27 2022, 05:21 PM... Sep 27 2022, 05:38 PM
Marcin600 pictures are for example here:
https://www.asi.it/... Sep 27 2022, 03:29 PM
Explorer1 I think it's fair to say, however, there has b... Sep 27 2022, 07:05 PM
Marcin600 By the way, I added the scale indicators to this i... Sep 27 2022, 07:31 PM
fredk Indeed, as I mentioned this is a job for gory-deta... Sep 28 2022, 12:28 AM
StargazeInWonder Given the above discussion, it may have been a mis... Sep 28 2022, 03:46 AM
climber Very interesting hypothesis here : https://twitter... Sep 28 2022, 07:02 AM
vikingmars QUOTE (climber @ Sep 28 2022, 09:02 AM) V... Sep 28 2022, 11:37 AM
Marcin600 Here is a video compilation of 3 LICIACube picture... Sep 28 2022, 05:17 PM
mcaplinger One wonders if the large overexposure of the LICIA... Sep 28 2022, 06:13 PM
Marcin600 QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Sep 28 2022, 08:13 PM... Sep 28 2022, 06:17 PM
StargazeInWonder In a way, this continues the theme of Insight... Sep 28 2022, 06:41 PM
cIclops Hubble and Webb images ... Sep 30 2022, 01:20 PM
Quetzalcoatl Hi,
A question arises. What is left of Dimorphos ... Oct 2 2022, 02:17 PM
john_s Despite the spectacular amount of debris, I've... Oct 2 2022, 06:28 PM
scalbers Yes this makes sense as my rule of thumb is a crat... Oct 2 2022, 06:32 PM
StargazeInWonder The density and structure of Dimorphos makes it ha... Oct 2 2022, 08:47 PM
Marcin600 Something like "mini-panoramas" of the D... Oct 3 2022, 06:45 PM![]() ![]() |
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