[X] My Assistant

[deglr6328]

Anton, I really don't think there was anything really "secret" about WMAP. Until you have the entire dataset from the probe you cant really begin assembling a meaningful image of anything. They HAD to wait until data taking period was over untill they released any worthwhile images to the public. Releasing WMAP data before then would be pretty meaningless to 99.9999% of the public, as it would be raw and totally unprocessable by the common image manipulation methods done here.

[antoniseb]

They HAD to wait until data taking period was over untill they released any worthwhile images to the public.

I agree that they needed to get a full year of observing to produce something meaningful, my concern is with the giant delay and silence connected to the second release. It has been a few years now since WMAP finished collecting a second year of data. They must also have had time to collect and assemble polarization data by now. The story seems to be that there are some unexpected aspects to the data that need some new looks (such as alignment of the octopole signal), and certainly they are trying to do their best job of finding a way to sort out what is cosmic signal from what is heliopause signal from what is SZ signal.

I would have hoped for some more openness about this data, or the nature of what the problems they are facing are.

Concerning Huygens and raw images... apologies for expressing some way out of date frustration. Yes, they were good about handing out a nice samples right away, and TheChemist is right that the detailed science data from MER is just has hard to come by as the MassSpec data from Huygens.

[Guest_BruceMoomaw_*]

WMAP data -- especially polarization data, which is especially weak -- takes a huge amount of analysis (future satellites, starting with Planck, will be far more sensitive to it) -- and there is absolutely no point in the group jumping the gun and releasing preliminary interpretations that turn out later to be incorrect. (The same thing, by the way, is true of the data from the radar sounders on the Mars orbiters -- I'm content to wait a long time for the data from those.)

[tedstryk]

But the entire Huygens dataset was released in at least as good quality a form as the Cassini's raw page within a few days.

[dvandorn]

...there is absolutely no point in the group jumping the gun and releasing preliminary interpretations that turn out later to be incorrect.

So -- is the octopole signal alignment issue something that was observed and discussed out of the first year's observations? I've read a couple of articles on the subject, and I sort of got the notion that the octopole signal alignment measurements that are at issue had come out of the second year of observation...

I guess I'm wondering if this issue is something that might turn out later to be incorrect? Or are we looking at a serious weakness in the expanding universe (with massive dark matter) theory?

-the other Doug

[antoniseb]

are we looking at a serious weakness in the expanding universe (with massive dark matter) theory?

I'm guessing not, but my experience so far is that the WMAP team is being unusually tight-lipped about this. I believe they simply want to be able to say something they are certain of, but it is really leaving a lot of room for odd speculations.

I started a new thread in "Space Based Observing" to discuss WMAP, as Hayabusa is a completely different probe investigating something that probably isn't the CMB.

[JRehling]

But the entire Huygens dataset was released in at least as good quality a form as the Cassini's raw page within a few days.

The entire DISR imaging dataset... which was an American-run instrument. In fact, the Americans released the imagery too early for ESA's liking and it caused a flap. I still haven't seen the GCMS data in as complete a form as I'd like. Galileo Probe's equivalent was presented to the public 7 weeks after its descent. (Note: There were initial confusions over those data, but that was because of the unique trickiness of making hydrogen measurements, which is a minor concern re: Titan.)

ESA's track record on getting quality data out to the public promptly is right up there with the Soviets'/Russians' success in Mars exploration. Informing the public is something that they have obviously deprioritized, and Jeffrey Bell's comments, to the effect that European academia is more so an oligarchy than the American equivalent, have resonated with me as a possible explanation.

I'm also struck by the quirks even in their MEx releases, which are beautiful. Namely, that they seem to be applying mysterious color calibration, changing that formula over time, without giving that process a public face; then they release everything with a small thumbnail and a bandwidth-breaking full-size image orders of magnitude bigger than the thumbnail, with no middle route.

As a former resident of a European country, from a time when they had nothing going in terms of space exploration, I would love to know more about what the reaction "on the street" is like regarding ESA's successes. I have heard there's enthusiasm, but I haven't been in Europe when there was an opportunity to see for myself.

[Guest_BruceMoomaw_*]

The report I heard was that Paris taxi drivers were briging up the subject of Titan to their passengers immediately after the landing.

[SFJCody]

http://www.isas.jaxa.jp/e/enterp/missions/...usa/today.shtml

1550 km! Can anyone here read Japanese?

Babel fish attempt:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/t...day.shtml#today

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/t...05%2f0902.shtml

[tty]

http://www.isas.jaxa.jp/e/enterp/missions/...usa/today.shtml

1550 km! Can anyone here read Japanese?

Babel fish attempt:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/t...day.shtml#today

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/t...05%2f0902.shtml

"Hayabusa" means Peregrine Falcon. "It is quick + (untranslated Kanji)", isn't that bad a try really.

tty

[tedstryk]

Gosh it is strange being 1550 km out and no great images! Puts in perspective how small this thing is!

[Phil Stooke]

This site:

http://www.hayabusa.isas.jaxa.jp/e/index.html

has some recent updates - check the column at left - the Sept 2 one has things I don't think have been seen elsewhere yet. No resolved images released yet, but they can't be far away.

Phil

[Phil Stooke]

The latest distance reported... 750 km! And at the speed of approach they quote they will be there within two days... except of course they may slow down for the final approach.

This is at:

http://www.isas.jaxa.jp/e/enterp/missions/...usa/today.shtml

I'm in the mode I always get into for a first view of a new world, or a new landing... obsessively checking in all the time. They always report "over two billion hits today", not knowing over a billion were just me.

Somebody asked elsewhere on here about reaction in Europe to recent ESA missions. I was just looking at various japanese newspapers etc. online - nothing on Hayabusa! But if this mission succeeds it will be something of a first for Japan, their first successful major exploration mission with their first images of a new world. I hope that will make a difference to their approach to public relations.

Do we have any members or lurkers from Japan?

Phil

[dilo]

Last update
Finally, two Optical Navigation Camera pictures taken yesterday from 1000 Km... a mere 5/6 pixel wide asteroid in the best condition!

Edit: looking more carefully, mentioned pixels are in fact "macro" pixel, probably artifacts resulting from some "bad" rescaling/magnification from original image. Using press release pixel, asteroid size is about 20x10; based on declared image size, asteroid measures 2x1 arcminutes or 580x290m at 1000Km, as expected.
Herebelow I magnified x2 the starting images, processed them in order to better see artifacts and real shape, then compare it with Oostro model (scale is 3 arcsec/pixel in all images). Agreement is good, but we still cannot see surface detail...

[alan]

Down to 500 km
http://www.isas.jaxa.jp/e/enterp/missions/...usa/today.shtml