[X] My Assistant

[lyford]

Good evenig!
Haha , I hope so.
but I have  other job.
I was going to today.

thanks for your help foe!

[odave]

I was just browsing for Hayabusa info and see that Matsuura has noticed our LIPOVITAN D discussion A little further down the page is some news - apparently Hayabusa is approaching Itokawa again, and they are downloading data collected during the touchdown attempt. It's not clear if they regained 3 axis control, but it "probably is possible".

Also, 5thstar has a graph showing a spike in site access when word got out that there was a good translation up there. Lower down is a world access map - I think I see my dot Sounds like he was impressed by the traffic.

Thanks to both Matsuura and 5thstar for giving us a window on Hayabusa!

[ElkGroveDan]

I was just browsing for Hayabusa info and see that  Matsuura has noticed our LIPOVITAN D discussion  

Too funny. Where? I can't find it.

[odave]

Too funny.  Where? I can't find it.

Second paragraph:

With the sight of the foreign country the empty bottle of リポビタン D on the desk of the テラキン has become topic.

[ljk4-1]

If Hayabusa cannot get a surface sample, will it at least stay in orbit around Itokawa to study it further?

Is it programmed to automatically return to Earth no matter what?

Could it land on Itokawa at some point and study the surface directly? Maybe even "hop" around a few times?

[RNeuhaus]

It is worthless that Hayabusa return to Earth without any sampling. I would be leaving it on Itokawa with any further excercise until it dominates the landing until its fuel combustible exhaust.

I think that Hayabusa must be leaving from Itokawa on December because Itokawa will be crossing again from inside to outside of Earth's orbit going further from Sun approaching to Mar's orbit. So Hayabusa is taking the advantage of that moment to leave in order to save fuel combustible. If Hayabusa has more combustible, so it might remain trying to chase to Itokawa until pickup any sample later and then leave toward Earth with some combustible to correct the outside route into the Earth route. These are my suppositions and these might be incorrect. Welcome for any corrections if someone know be sure about it.

Rodolfo

[odave]

A return to Earth without a sample may have some value in testing the engineering behind their re-entry and recovery systems. But I think a better use of Hayabusa, should it not get a sample, would be to stay at Itokawa and do as much low altitude imagery as possible with the remaining fuel.

One question I asked a while back (would they still try to sample if they became too low on fuel for a return to Earth) was asked and answered at 5thstar's translation of the press briefing with project manager Kawaguchi:

Unknown: "The fuel consumption seems very tight. Are there any possibilities that you scrap the returning to Earth and perform the sampling maneuver instead?"
Kawaguchi: "I think the possibility is remote. The mission includes the retrieval of the asteroid sample. Getting the sample and retrieving it are coupled."
Mainichi: "You said you made a good score in robotics. What is your score in 500 mark?"
Kawaguchi: "We are still in the middle of the mission. I would avoid answering that question. But I feel a kind of satisfaction on the outcome of the robotics maneuver."

[The Messenger]

If Hayabusa cannot get a surface sample, will it at least stay in orbit around Itokawa to study it further? 

Is it programmed to automatically return to Earth no matter what? 

Could it land on Itokawa at some point and study the surface directly?  Maybe even "hop" around a few times?

That would be a tough choice, returning home without a sample, or taking up shop on Itokawa, and returning ranging data and as much other information as possible for as long as possible.

[stillgoing]

I think that even if no sampling is done, there is tremendous value in carrying on the rest of the mission. Testing the ability to return to earth, drop the sampler and recover it is a valid exersize. What will be learned from that will prove usefull in planing future missions.

Remember that a large part of this entire mission was to test out methods, equipment and software. The science gained from the inspection of Itokawa is very important, but it's not the entire mission.

-oh - and on the access map: I'm the red dot.

[ElkGroveDan]

If Hayabusa fails to gather a sample, there's the remote possibility of Minerva making contact with Itokawa, and that might be another reason to stick around.

Does anyone know if they have attempted to acquire telemetry from Minerva since it was lost?

[Marz]

If Hayabusa fails to gather a sample, there's the remote possibility of Minerva making contact with Itokawa, and that might be another reason to stick around.

Does anyone know if they have attempted to acquire telemetry from Minerva since it was lost?

I think Minerva is out of power by now, but who knows... maybe through a series of gravity assists it will be flung outta the solar system... and comes back 100 years later as a giant AI-robot requesting the entire planet Earth as a "sample".

[helvick]

Remember that a large part of this entire mission was to test out methods, equipment and software. The science gained from the inspection of Itokawa is very important, but it's not the entire mission.

-oh - and on the access map: I'm the red dot.

I'm with you 100% on that one. The "sample return" component is a valid exercise all on its own even if there is no sample.

The scale on the map is a bit small and I can't quite make out where you are, somewhere near Juneau? Must be damn cold there in any case.

[stillgoing]

The scale on the map is a bit small and I can't quite make out where you are, somewhere near Juneau? Must be damn cold there in any case.

I took the red dot to be more Vancouver, B.C. I'm just east of there about 30k. Foggy today, but yesterday I climbed to the top of a local mountain for some DH biking. Sunny, warm. I was wearing nylon shorts and shirt under the armour.

/back on topic/

[RNeuhaus]

After reviewing the toughts of Stillgoing and Helvick, I admit that it is much better try to return Hayabusa back home rather than trying to master the landing on Itokawa and miss it on space or on Itokawa.

Anyway, if the next intent is not able to approach enough to fire balls and collect samples. Why not to fire balls if Hayabusa is still hovering at some heigth, let us say about 10 meters. As Itokawa is a rubber pile asteroide and the dust might flight as high over than 10 meters that the trunk might collect some vital floating grams. This is the last resource, after failing all of intents before returning home...

I am out of the calculation about how tall will lift powders, sand or dust after a ball is fired from Hayabusa's trunk.

The previous intent has failed due to the problems with the Laser Finder Range (LFR) which is a big dish under the belly of Hayabusa, probably because of excesive heat radiated from the Itokawa surface (around the moon heat during the daytime: 110-120 Centigrades). I don't know if the design has taken into this account so does not affect the process of this instrument under high heat. If it is true, then Hayabusa won't be able to use it to approach to Hayabusa unless as a blind approach but very slow, let us say, at 1 or 2 cms/sec so it won't be hit hard against the surface.


Rodolfo

[Joffan]

If Hayabusa fails to gather a sample, there's the remote possibility of Minerva making contact with Itokawa, and that might be another reason to stick around.

My understanding was that Minerva had a very limited life after release.

My preference, if the sampling fails, would be to use the ion drive to go find another asteroid. This might even be JAXA's thinking - since "getting the sample and retrieving it are coupled", NOT getting samples might imply return to Earth also lapses. I can see the attraction of testing the sample-return engineering though.