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Genesis News
dvandorn
post Mar 16 2006, 11:39 PM
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Seems to me the best way to get the solar wind oxygen isotope data we'd like to have would be to piggy-back such a collector on some other dust-collection mission. For example, if we flew a comet rendezvous with sample return significantly *inside* Earth's orbit, you could piggyback a set of Genesis-style collectors into the return package and collect this additional dataset.

-the other Doug


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JTN
post Mar 17 2006, 01:11 AM
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QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 16 2006, 06:57 AM) *
QUOTE (The Messenger @ Mar 16 2006, 03:35 AM) *
There seems to be confusion, between the Newscience article, and Bruce's references, about when the 'brown staining' occurred - during the mission or after the landing.
It definitely occurred while Genesis was still in space. You'll recall that, right at the start of the mission, the sample-return capsule's battery showed some signs of overheating. [...]

No chance that the "staining" occurred late enough, and thick enough, to seal in some of the samples safe from Utahn contamination? wink.gif
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Bob Shaw
post Mar 17 2006, 08:13 AM
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QUOTE (dvandorn @ Mar 16 2006, 11:39 PM) *
Seems to me the best way to get the solar wind oxygen isotope data we'd like to have would be to piggy-back such a collector on some other dust-collection mission. For example, if we flew a comet rendezvous with sample return significantly *inside* Earth's orbit, you could piggyback a set of Genesis-style collectors into the return package and collect this additional dataset.

-the other Doug


oDoug:

Would it be safe to go past a comet at any speed if it was inside the Earth's orbit? I doubt it! And the delta-V requirements for an actual rendezvous could be pretty near impossible, too - the things belt along once in the inner solar system. Oh, and then there's the planning - would we be restricted to well-known, possibly rather inactive, short-period comets?

Far better to run a Genesis mission on the back of a Mars atmosphere sample return flight, or an Enceladus sample flight!

Bob Shaw


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ljk4-1
post Mar 17 2006, 01:58 PM
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The BBC seems to think that Genesis samples will survive:

"Researchers are confident at least 100,000 atoms from the Sun survived,
uncontaminated, the Genesis probe's crash landing return to Earth."

Comets are often described as the icy wanderers of the Solar System's cold outer
fringes. But analysis of the first comet samples brought back to Earth suggests
comets are made in very hot regions.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4801968.stm

Meanwhile there's good news from another probe that ventured far from Earth to
bring samples home. You may remember the Genesis solar probe crash landed in
2004 after both its parachutes failed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3638926.stm

Genesis had spent two years gathering up the particles that form the solar wind
but half were lost during the 310km/h impact. US scientists have just gone
public with early results from the half that survived.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4810024.stm

For some Solar System basics, consult the Science & Nature travel guide:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/solarsystem/


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"After having some business dealings with men, I am occasionally chagrined,
and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance.
I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard,
and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does
not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is
indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have
no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft."

- Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853

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The Messenger
post Mar 17 2006, 06:24 PM
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QUOTE (JTN @ Mar 16 2006, 06:11 PM) *
It definitely occurred while Genesis was still in space. You'll recall that, right at the start of the mission, the sample-return capsule's battery showed some signs of overheating. [...]
No chance that the "staining" occurred late enough, and thick enough, to seal in some of the samples safe from Utahn contamination? wink.gif

In this respect, the west desert was an ugly choice - A dried up lake bed, with everything imaginable in the silt.

A couple of decades ago, the Great Salt Lake rose so high it was starting to spill onto the airport. They put a bunch of super-turbo pumps in, and pumped the water out on to the west desert to evaporate. The lake was so diluted, the salt content was low enough that bacteria became active in the lake, dexomposing centuries of pickled organics, and the lake stench was overwhelming.

I don't think that they pumped into the area where Gemini splatted, but that desert is not a place that you want to go bushwacking.
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Bob Shaw
post Mar 18 2006, 05:43 PM
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Interesting information regarding the long-term future of the spacecraft, from the Genesis website: http://genesismission.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/solo.html

"Genesis Spacecraft Bus Flies Solo
While NASA scientists continue to examine the Genesis sample return capsule at NASA's Johnson Space Center, the spacecraft itself continues on its flight. After releasing the sample return capsule on Sept. 8, 2004, the spacecraft bus now heads back toward the vicinity of the Earth-Sun Lagrange Point (L1), a point just under 1 million miles away from Earth toward the Sun, where gravitational and centrifugal forces acting on the spacecraft are balanced. All of the spacecraft systems are operational including the solar wind monitors (although currently turned off). On its current trajectory, the spacecraft will leave L1 in February 2005, entering an orbit around the Sun. Since this orbit is just inside the Earth's orbit, Genesis will gradually pull ahead of the Earth, steadily increasing its distance from Earth in the coming years. NASA is currently considering an extended mission, which would keep the spacecraft in the Earth-Moon system for the next several years. The Genesis spacecraft completed a trajectory correction maneuver (TCM) on Nov. 6, as the spacecraft made its closest approach by our planet since the release of the sample return capsule. This TCM ensured that the bus could escape from the Earth and Moon system if an extended mission is not approved."

Bob Shaw
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tty
post Mar 18 2006, 09:57 PM
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QUOTE (The Messenger @ Mar 17 2006, 07:24 PM) *
In this respect, the west desert was an ugly choice - A dried up lake bed, with everything imaginable in the silt.

A couple of decades ago, the Great Salt Lake rose so high it was starting to spill onto the airport. They put a bunch of super-turbo pumps in, and pumped the water out on to the west desert to evaporate. The lake was so diluted, the salt content was low enough that bacteria became active in the lake, dexomposing centuries of pickled organics, and the lake stench was overwhelming.

I don't think that they pumped into the area where Gemini splatted, but that desert is not a place that you want to go bushwacking.


That whole desert is old seabottom from Lake Bonneville, so I don't think some extra water a few decades ago can have made much difference. In any case I don't see that a different choice of landing area would have made much difference contamination-wise, except possibly inland East Antarctica.

tty
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ljk4-1
post Jun 14 2006, 04:20 AM
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Faulty Design Caused Genesis Mishap

Washington DC (SPX) Jun 14, 2006

NASA announced Tuesday that a flaw in the design of its Genesis spacecraft's sample-return capsule caused it to crash in the Utah desert in 2004. That is the conclusion of the agency's Genesis Mission Mishap Investigation Board, convened on Sept. 10, 2004 - two days after the accident. NASA has released the board's final report.

http://www.spacemart.com/reports/Faulty_De...sis_Mishap.html


--------------------
"After having some business dealings with men, I am occasionally chagrined,
and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance.
I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard,
and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does
not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is
indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have
no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft."

- Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853

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The Messenger
post Jun 15 2006, 03:49 AM
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Just as I suspected...it takes at least two years for information to get from Utah to Washington...and even longer to return blink.gif
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ljk4-1
post Sep 20 2006, 09:08 PM
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Genesis Landing Site Monument Installation

On the morning of September 6, 2006 team members of the Utah Test and Training Range (UTTR) hosted a dedication ceremony in honor of the two-year anniversary of the Genesis science capsule return.

A permanent monument was installed commemorating the significance of solar wind samples returned to Earth. Within the obelisk-shaped monument, a time capsule containing print and media features that characterize the mission from inception to present day was installed.

The monument and time capsule were made possible through private donations. The monument is placed on the exact spot of the capsule’s Earth return.

Viewed online at: http://genesismission.jpl.nasa.gov/science/mon_dedic.html


--------------------
"After having some business dealings with men, I am occasionally chagrined,
and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance.
I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard,
and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does
not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is
indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have
no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft."

- Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853

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The Messenger
post Sep 22 2006, 03:43 AM
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Pinning a military metal on a crash site?
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djellison
post Sep 22 2006, 07:00 AM
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Or simply marking the site of the first sample return mission in three decades. Crash or no crash, it's doing good science. Nothing wrong with that.

Doug
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Jeff7
post Sep 22 2006, 04:00 PM
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Would it be truly ironic if the next sample return mission's parachute opens perfectly, only to partially impale itself on this monument?
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SigurRosFan
post Nov 17 2006, 11:51 AM
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Interesting news article:

- Solar wind particles solve lunar mystery

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Trace chemicals ejected from the Sun and collected by NASA’s Genesis mission have solved a long-standing lunar mystery ...
-----


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