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Tiny Craters |
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Apr 28 2005, 01:42 AM
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http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/spotlight/o...y/20050427.html
Opportunity Discovers Tiny Craters on Mars |
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May 27 2005, 04:46 PM
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![]() Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 21 Joined: 31-January 05 From: Havre, MT Member No.: 163 |
Do we have any idea about the movement rate of material in this region of Mars? How long would it take for such a small pit, for instance, to be filled in by wind-blown material?
If the time frame is not that long, and the pits *are* formed by material falling into a void beneath the surface, would that imply that there is some sort of active geology going on to open these voids enough to cause the material to fall in? Or could the pits be very, very old? Conversely, what is the liklihood of very small meteorites making it through the thin atmosphere and to the surface on a regular basis? ...John... -------------------- "To make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe..."
-- Carl Sagan |
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May 27 2005, 06:58 PM
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#3
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![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3419 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Minneapolis, MN, USA Member No.: 15 |
QUOTE (John M. Dollan @ May 27 2005, 11:46 AM) Do we have any idea about the movement rate of material in this region of Mars? How long would it take for such a small pit, for instance, to be filled in by wind-blown material? I don't have the images right at hand, but I have seen a few nearly-erased craters in the dunes, too. If I recall correctly, there is one very good example of a fresh crater and one very good example of a nearly-obliterated circular depression of similar size. Also if I'm not mistaken, they were taken from the same location, so they were located on fairly near-to-each-other dunes. Unless we sit for months at a time at one of these highly drifted/duned locations and take a bunch of images over a fairly long baseline, I don't think we can state with any kind of certainty the time needed to fill in such a little dimple crater. QUOTE (John M. Dollan @ May 27 2005, 11:46 AM) If the time frame is not that long, and the pits *are* formed by material falling into a void beneath the surface, would that imply that there is some sort of active geology going on to open these voids enough to cause the material to fall in? Or could the pits be very, very old? Some of the dunes near Oppy's current position show layering, so we know the dunes have built up over some span of time. And, of course, dune/drift formation is by definition a constructive process whereby new material is slowly built up onto the duneforms. So, depending on the speed of dune/drift formation (and dune/drift erosion -- it goes both ways, after all), these tiny craters could be years old or millions of years old. But since we see degradation of tiny craters, I'd have to think that really fresh-appearing tiny craters are probably not ancient. QUOTE (John M. Dollan @ May 27 2005, 11:46 AM) Conversely, what is the liklihood of very small meteorites making it through the thin atmosphere and to the surface on a regular basis? You can tell from the lower limit of the size of what appear to be primary impact craters the size of impactors that get through the air. On Mars, these *seem* to get as small as a few meters, which can be made by marble-sized to fist-sized chunks traveling at cosmic velocities. The tiny craters we're seeing in the dunes are more likely caused by something smaller than a peanut, probably less than half the size of a shelled peanut, or smaller -- if they are primary impacts. I'm really not convinced that these are primary craters, though. They look exactly like what I would expect from a pebble or stone ejected from a nearby impact, traveling at relatively slow speed, hitting the side of a powdery-sand dune. I would say the most likely thing to have caused the really fresh one, if it *is* a primary impact, would be a small survivng piece from the cruise stage that broke off and traveled downrange a bit. But again, that would be very, very difficult to prove. -the other Doug -------------------- “The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
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Sunspot Tiny Craters Apr 28 2005, 01:42 AM
chris Looks to me like there are a few more around as we... Apr 29 2005, 11:45 AM
Marcel QUOTE (chris @ Apr 29 2005, 11:45 AM)Looks to... Apr 29 2005, 12:26 PM
dvandorn QUOTE (Marcel @ Apr 29 2005, 07:26 AM)I'm... Apr 29 2005, 04:59 PM
John M. Dollan I know that there is no chance in heck for this to... May 4 2005, 01:23 AM
Edward Schmitz QUOTE (John M. Dollan @ May 3 2005, 06:23 PM)... May 4 2005, 05:02 AM
djellison Not sure - is an electrical discharge even possibl... May 4 2005, 08:04 AM
Marcel QUOTE (djellison @ May 4 2005, 08:04 AM)Not s... May 4 2005, 08:22 AM
Marcel QUOTE (djellison @ May 4 2005, 08:04 AM)Not s... May 4 2005, 08:24 AM
Bill Harris QUOTE Not sure - is an electrical discharge even p... May 4 2005, 09:52 AM
edstrick Electrical discharges *are* possible in the martia... May 4 2005, 09:54 AM
Bob Shaw I suspect that the situation during global dust st... May 4 2005, 01:54 PM
John M. Dollan I know that dry sand and dust can produce electric... May 5 2005, 06:50 AM
Bill Harris QUOTE Mars atmosphere is fairly near the pressures... May 5 2005, 08:38 AM
tty Have a look at this:
http://www.cosis.net/abstrac... May 9 2005, 07:15 AM
Bob Shaw Now there you are, marooned on the top of a dune i... May 9 2005, 10:15 AM

Jeff7 QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ May 9 2005, 06:15 AM)Now th... May 9 2005, 10:50 AM
Edward Schmitz QUOTE (tty @ May 9 2005, 12:15 AM)Have a look... May 10 2005, 02:56 AM
Richard Trigaux Interesting discution about those strange little p... May 26 2005, 07:40 PM
John M. Dollan QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ May 26 2005, 12:40 P... May 27 2005, 04:30 AM
Richard Trigaux Thanks John for your precisions. As I expected, yo... May 27 2005, 07:47 AM
Marcel QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ May 27 2005, 07:47 A... May 27 2005, 09:29 AM
dvandorn QUOTE (Marcel @ May 27 2005, 04:29 AM)Wowowow... May 27 2005, 01:30 PM
Bob Shaw I think that karst landforms were already suggeste... May 27 2005, 05:42 PM

Richard Trigaux QUOTE sorta crop circles (assuming that any are ge... May 27 2005, 06:29 PM
Bob Shaw I don't suppose it wos the Mysterons whot done... May 27 2005, 07:32 PM
Jeff7 QUOTE I'm really not convinced that these are ... May 27 2005, 07:35 PM
Edward Schmitz There is a rim on this hole. It's not big but... May 27 2005, 09:28 PM
helvick QUOTE (Edward Schmitz @ May 27 2005, 10:28 PM... May 28 2005, 02:29 PM
Bob Shaw Perhaps the 'Lion Ant' notion isn't so... May 28 2005, 03:12 PM
CosmicRocker There is a crater diameter calculator here that mi... May 28 2005, 06:22 AM
helvick QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ May 28 2005, 07:22 AM)T... May 28 2005, 03:17 PM
Bob Shaw If the tiny craters are impact-related, where is t... May 28 2005, 05:37 PM
dvandorn The one big problem I have with all the nice math ... May 28 2005, 06:10 PM
helvick Doug,
I agree - the simple calculations do not ch... May 28 2005, 07:13 PM

Richard Trigaux Helvick and all,
there is an instance of a 20km c... May 28 2005, 07:52 PM

dvandorn QUOTE (helvick @ May 28 2005, 02:13 PM)I... May 28 2005, 09:47 PM
Edward Schmitz QUOTE (dvandorn @ May 28 2005, 11:10 AM)...
... May 28 2005, 09:22 PM
Edward Schmitz On the heat sheild impact kicking something up...
... May 29 2005, 03:36 AM
Bill Harris I remember the "mysterious dark spot" to... May 29 2005, 09:02 AM
Jeff7 QUOTE (Bill Harris @ May 29 2005, 05:02 AM)I ... May 29 2005, 07:49 PM
Bob Shaw Attached are a series of images of impact craters ... May 29 2005, 08:06 PM
Bob Shaw And some more - bigger versions are available, if ... May 29 2005, 08:08 PM
helvick QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ May 29 2005, 09:06 PM)Which... May 30 2005, 04:13 PM
edstrick I have a suspicion that some of those dark spots a... May 29 2005, 10:26 AM
helvick QUOTE (edstrick @ May 29 2005, 11:26 AM)I hav... May 30 2005, 04:36 PM
Richard Trigaux Hi helvick,
I somewhat agre with the general conc... May 30 2005, 07:58 PM
helvick QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ May 30 2005, 08:58 P... May 30 2005, 09:27 PM
alan Another example of a meteor exploding and raining ... May 30 2005, 10:41 PM
helvick QUOTE (alan @ May 30 2005, 11:41 PM)Another e... May 31 2005, 07:13 AM
Bob Shaw OK, let's say that they're the result of a... May 31 2005, 11:15 AM
Edward Schmitz QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ May 31 2005, 04:15 AM)OK, l... Jun 2 2005, 01:56 AM
Edward Schmitz Yes, if you look at the collection of meteor bits ... May 31 2005, 03:55 AM
CosmicRocker I think, if the sediment is falling into some void... Jun 2 2005, 05:17 AM
Bob Shaw CosmicRocker's observations lead me, once more... Jun 2 2005, 07:15 PM
garybeau The tiny craters are not that far away. I say afte... Jun 2 2005, 08:13 PM
edstrick The "fractures" that Opportunity visited... Jun 2 2005, 06:36 AM
Edward Schmitz Mob rule! We'll storm the control center ... Jun 3 2005, 06:32 AM
Tman On the Deep Impact website there is an amazing vid... Jun 13 2005, 07:22 PM
Richard Trigaux Sol 503 navcam released a round panoramic view of ... Jun 25 2005, 07:02 AM
edstrick Obviously, the tiny craters are formed by martian ... Jun 25 2005, 08:13 AM
ilbasso Perhaps these are the Martian equivalent of the Sa... Jun 25 2005, 01:54 PM
edstrick <TOOTHY GRIN> mm.... Snack sized Jabba worm... Jun 25 2005, 08:20 PM
Myran I went to check on that www.enterprisemission.com... Jun 30 2005, 03:28 PM
dvandorn Here is an image returned by Opportunity on July 2... Jul 24 2005, 10:27 AM
RNeuhaus QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jul 24 2005, 05:27 AM)Here ... Jul 24 2005, 11:13 PM
odave Looks like Oppy's found another micro crater:
... Oct 18 2005, 04:25 PM
helvick QUOTE (odave @ Oct 18 2005, 05:25 PM)Looks li... Oct 18 2005, 04:38 PM
glennwsmith Tman, thanks for reference to Deep Impact craterin... Jul 24 2005, 06:00 PM
Bill Harris I noticed that one, too. There have also been two... Oct 18 2005, 06:09 PM
atomoid since its so small, the impactor is probably burie... Oct 18 2005, 09:56 PM
Bob Shaw The new micro-crater is certainly much more like a... Oct 18 2005, 10:39 PM
djellison I cant imagine enough convection on mars to keep a... Oct 18 2005, 10:56 PM
sranderson What is the terminal velocity on mars of a quarter... Oct 19 2005, 05:52 AM
helvick QUOTE (sranderson @ Oct 19 2005, 06:52 AM)Wha... Oct 19 2005, 08:16 AM
Marcel QUOTE (sranderson @ Oct 19 2005, 05:52 AM)Wha... Oct 19 2005, 09:49 AM
CosmicRocker These damn things are really curious. When we fir... Oct 19 2005, 04:16 AM
dvandorn It's just hard to imagine subsurface sapping t... Oct 19 2005, 05:47 AM
Edward Schmitz QUOTE (dvandorn @ Oct 18 2005, 10:47 PM)I... Oct 19 2005, 11:13 PM
MichaelT There is one thing that makes it highly unlikely, ... Oct 19 2005, 08:52 AM
helvick QUOTE (MichaelT @ Oct 19 2005, 09:52 AM)And t... Oct 19 2005, 09:54 AM
MichaelT QUOTE (helvick @ Oct 19 2005, 09:54 AM)Good p... Oct 19 2005, 11:50 AM
Bill Harris I realize that you've probably looked at this ... Oct 19 2005, 01:00 PM
atomoid QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Oct 19 2005, 01:00 PM)..... Oct 19 2005, 09:46 PM
MichaelT I recently read in a Nature article that the plain... Oct 19 2005, 01:36 PM
RNeuhaus The mini-holes that I have seen are usually on the... Oct 19 2005, 02:33 PM
Jeff7 QUOTE Meteorite impacts are VERY rare nowadays. Ev... Oct 19 2005, 08:27 PM
helvick It's true that the martian atmosphere should a... Oct 19 2005, 09:50 PM
Cugel Well, I have kept quiet the last few days just to ... Oct 19 2005, 08:51 PM
Bob Shaw There was the slightly heretical theory about mini... Oct 19 2005, 09:44 PM
Edward Schmitz QUOTE (Cugel @ Oct 19 2005, 01:51 PM)Well, I ... Oct 20 2005, 12:22 AM
djellison QUOTE (Edward Schmitz @ Oct 20 2005, 12:22 AM... Oct 20 2005, 07:30 AM
Edward Schmitz QUOTE (djellison @ Oct 20 2005, 12:30 AM)So w... Oct 20 2005, 03:00 PM
paulanderson There appear to be more of these "mini-crater... Oct 20 2005, 07:29 AM
Tman QUOTE (paulanderson @ Oct 20 2005, 09:29 AM)A... Oct 20 2005, 11:42 AM
Bill Harris Thanks, Paul, I noticed those too and wondered if ... Oct 20 2005, 08:05 AM
paulanderson QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Oct 20 2005, 12:05 AM)Th... Oct 20 2005, 05:35 PM
Bill Harris Perhaps these craters are aeolian features. The r... Oct 20 2005, 12:35 PM![]() ![]() |
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