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Mariner Mars 1964, Mariners 3 and 4 to Mars: imaging plans?
Phil Stooke
post Apr 28 2005, 05:05 PM
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I am currently working on a book about lunar exploration, but looking ahead to the next one, which will cover Mars. One question to which I think I have an answer - but I'd like to see what my fellow Mars enthusiasts think - is this:

Mariner 3 failed to leave Earth. But if it had flown successfully, what area on Mars would it have photographed?

My understanding is that there was no specific plan. The MM64 press kit, for instance, says nothing about image coverage for either Mariner 3 or Mariner 4. I believe that navigation to planetary distances was still so uncertain that the flight team could not predict at launch the sub-spacecraft point at closest approach - uncertainties included the exact time of the flyby, the distance and the point at which the spacecraft would pass through the target plane. These things would be known closer to the flyby but they weren't precisely predictable at launch, so Mariner 3 never got to the stage of having an imaging plan.

Am I right?

Phil


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Phil Stooke
post Jun 11 2006, 12:15 AM
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Another Phil asked:

"Does anyone have access to Viking or Mars Express images that
would match up with those of Mariner 4?"

You might want to try Google Mars. These days we all have access! I've played around with that comparison, it's quite interesting especially for the earlier M4 images. In fact this will form part of my future Mars book.

And ljk4-1 said:

"And someone please correct me if my memory is faulty... "

Well, it probably is faulty! There was no overlap between Mariner 4 and Mariner 6/7 images. And those two authors would not have made a mistake like that. I don't have the book in front of me, but it wouldn't have shown that.

Ted mentioned Orcus Patera. Paterae are usually volcanic craters, but I think everybody believes now that Orcus is really just a giant oblique impact like Schiller on the Moon.

Phil


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ljk4-1
post Jun 11 2006, 02:47 PM
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QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Jun 10 2006, 08:15 PM) *
And ljk4-1 said:

"And someone please correct me if my memory is faulty... "

Well, it probably is faulty! There was no overlap between Mariner 4 and Mariner 6/7 images. And those two authors would not have made a mistake like that. I don't have the book in front of me, but it wouldn't have shown that.

Ted mentioned Orcus Patera. Paterae are usually volcanic craters, but I think everybody believes now that Orcus is really just a giant oblique impact like Schiller on the Moon.

Phil


Hey, go easy on an old man's memory! I think what I was remembering now was
the Mariner 6 and 7 images overlapping each other.

Here is the Mariner 4 image of Orcus Patera. It caught the end of the feature.
Too bad the image was so poor that it was hard to make out any real details.

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/html/obj...ge/m04_03b.html

And here is a paper debating whether OP is an impact crater or a volcanic feature:

http://www.geology.pomona.edu/research/Fac..._Final_1085.pdf


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not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is
indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have
no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft."

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Posts in this topic
- Phil Stooke   Mariner Mars 1964   Apr 28 2005, 05:05 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Well, actually it DID leave Earth -- it just left ...   Apr 28 2005, 10:52 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   Bruce: "Tell us about it, Janet!" ...   Apr 29 2005, 12:05 PM
||- - gndonald   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Apr 29 2005, 08:05 PM)Bruce...   Aug 9 2005, 02:04 PM
|- - The Messenger   In 1964, the question of whether there were 'c...   Aug 11 2005, 10:22 PM
|- - tasp   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Apr 28 2005, 04:52 PM)Co...   Nov 29 2005, 03:32 AM
|- - DonPMitchell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Apr 28 2005, 03:52 P...   May 31 2006, 03:48 AM
- - JRehling   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Apr 28 2005, 10:05 AM)I ...   Apr 28 2005, 11:13 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Thanks for these comments. And Bruce, I was inadv...   Apr 29 2005, 12:31 AM
- - edstrick   Mariner 4 had a scan platform, and one option they...   Apr 29 2005, 09:35 AM
|- - peter59   QUOTE (edstrick @ Apr 29 2005, 09:35 AM)Marin...   Apr 29 2005, 07:22 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Yep. In fact, they decided some months before the...   Apr 29 2005, 11:48 PM
- - edstrick   Bruce.. that matches what I recall without digging...   Apr 30 2005, 08:36 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Yep, that's all correct. (Don't ask me ho...   Apr 30 2005, 01:35 PM
|- - tedstryk   A planet sensor might be more trouble than it is w...   Apr 30 2005, 02:27 PM
|- - Tom Tamlyn   In Bruce Murray's book "Journey into Spac...   Oct 29 2005, 02:22 AM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (Tom Tamlyn @ Oct 28 2005, 06:22 PM)In ...   Nov 29 2005, 05:40 AM
- - Phil Stooke   Ted - thanks for this... I'm not doubting you,...   Apr 30 2005, 03:52 PM
|- - tedstryk   I've got some documentation of this somewhere ...   Apr 30 2005, 06:17 PM
- - edstrick   Mariner 69 and it's mission was designed aroun...   May 1 2005, 07:59 AM
- - edstrick   Ted... I'd assume a planet sensor would only b...   May 1 2005, 08:01 AM
- - PhilCo126   Phil Stooke ... when will You start the work on th...   Oct 27 2005, 04:49 PM
- - Phil Stooke   I'm in the editing phase on the Moon book. Ne...   Oct 27 2005, 04:50 PM
- - PhilCo126   Great Phil ... don't hesitate to contact me wh...   Oct 27 2005, 05:18 PM
- - PhilCo126   Phil ... with ' information ' I meant in f...   Nov 28 2005, 05:54 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Fawning won't be necessary. It was indeed the...   Nov 29 2005, 05:56 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   You can find a brief Web reference to it: a chapte...   Nov 29 2005, 06:05 AM
|- - tasp   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Nov 29 2005, 12:05 AM)Yo...   Nov 29 2005, 06:19 AM
- - edstrick   Random note: The UV photometer that flew on Marin...   Nov 29 2005, 07:59 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Try the combination of "Venus" and ...   Nov 29 2005, 08:00 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Yeah, I've got the full dibs on the process by...   Nov 29 2005, 08:07 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   While we're on the subject of lost opportuniti...   Nov 29 2005, 08:19 AM
- - edstrick   Bruce Moomaw: ".... But they did come fairly...   Nov 29 2005, 08:33 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   They certainly came breathtakingly close before th...   Nov 29 2005, 09:08 AM
- - edstrick   I'd have to dig in my "stacks" to fi...   Nov 29 2005, 10:31 AM
- - ljk4-1   Any truth that Mariner 4's flight path was aim...   Mar 15 2006, 03:21 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Not really. Any long strip of images like that wo...   Mar 15 2006, 04:24 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   At that time they had very little confidence in th...   Mar 15 2006, 10:38 PM
- - edstrick   For the canal freaks, the flyby trajectory and vie...   Mar 16 2006, 07:53 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (edstrick @ Mar 16 2006, 07:53 AM) ...   Mar 16 2006, 04:25 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Oh, yes. I well remember the shock when the dust ...   Mar 16 2006, 10:41 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 16 2006, 10:41 P...   Mar 17 2006, 11:28 PM
|- - Michael Capobianco   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Mar 17 2006, 06:28 PM) ...   Mar 17 2006, 11:45 PM
- - PhilCo126   Talking about Mariner IX... Phil (Stooke) I've...   Mar 17 2006, 06:13 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   It was for me, too. Although I was already intere...   Mar 18 2006, 12:19 AM
|- - Michael Capobianco   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 17 2006, 07:19 P...   Mar 18 2006, 01:09 AM
|- - ljk4-1   'Now that we have a map, let's start colon...   Mar 20 2006, 04:16 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   The scheme was more complex than that. It did inv...   May 31 2006, 06:18 AM
|- - DonPMitchell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ May 30 2006, 11:18 P...   May 31 2006, 06:33 AM
- - PhilHorzempa   I have been intrigued by the notion of comparing d...   Jun 9 2006, 04:57 AM
- - ljk4-1   Here are images of the famous Mariner Crater (Numb...   Jun 10 2006, 05:48 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   The odd thing about that famous Mariner IV crater ...   Jun 10 2006, 08:52 PM
|- - tedstryk   It also photographed half of Orcas (Orcus?) Patera...   Jun 10 2006, 09:04 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Another Phil asked: "Does anyone have acces...   Jun 11 2006, 12:15 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   Phil: It'd have been quite a good idea to ove...   Jun 11 2006, 12:47 AM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Jun 10 2006, 08:15 P...   Jun 11 2006, 02:47 PM
- - edstrick   In Mariner 4's image #11 (THE crater), a fault...   Jun 11 2006, 09:45 AM
- - Phil Stooke   Bob, the Mariner 6 and 7 strips did intersect, in ...   Jun 11 2006, 11:53 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Jun 11 2006, 12:53 P...   Jun 11 2006, 01:18 PM
- - edstrick   Note that despite the overwhelming impression of h...   Jun 12 2006, 07:48 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (edstrick @ Jun 12 2006, 08:48 AM) ...   Jun 12 2006, 10:21 AM
|- - tedstryk   I think a lot of the reason was that the Tharsis a...   Jun 12 2006, 11:52 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   There was certainly little mention of this at the ...   Jun 12 2006, 08:54 AM
- - ljk4-1   The famous August, 1970 issue of National Geograph...   Jun 12 2006, 12:18 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Bruce said "There was certainly little mentio...   Jun 12 2006, 03:26 PM
- - peter59   Little bit of history. Mariner IV - voyage through...   Oct 22 2007, 03:57 PM
- - peter59   Little bit of history. Mariner IV - significant pr...   Nov 6 2007, 09:34 PM
- - peter59   Mariner 4's picture #1 is about 350 km paralle...   Nov 8 2007, 04:20 PM
- - peter59   Van Allen belts detected by Mariner 4's Ion Ch...   Nov 9 2007, 10:47 PM
- - robspace54   For those who were born after 1970, you have to re...   Jan 18 2008, 08:44 PM
|- - peter59   QUOTE (robspace54 @ Jan 18 2008, 09:44 PM...   Jan 18 2008, 09:01 PM
||- - Paolo   wow! I really like those context images!   Jan 19 2008, 01:22 PM
|- - JRehling   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gl_iRDdIUc Part o...   Jan 20 2008, 04:50 AM
- - dvandorn   Yes -- I never realized before that one of the Mar...   Jan 19 2008, 06:32 PM
- - peter59   Today is the 43 anniversary of the first Mars flyb...   Jul 14 2008, 08:20 AM
|- - Alan Stern   QUOTE (peter59 @ Jul 14 2008, 09:20 AM) T...   Jul 14 2008, 05:13 PM
- - nprev   Alan, please forgive me, but I really do have to a...   Jul 15 2008, 03:32 AM
|- - Alan Stern   QUOTE (nprev @ Jul 15 2008, 03:32 AM) Ala...   Jul 15 2008, 09:07 AM
- - volcanopele   Could be just as much of as coincidence as January...   Jul 15 2008, 03:36 AM
- - mchan   The NH Pluto / Mariner 4 Mars flyby connection was...   Jul 15 2008, 08:31 AM
- - edstrick   Viking 1 was sort of trying to land on July 4, 197...   Jul 15 2008, 11:21 AM
|- - tedstryk   I have put together a little commemorative compila...   Jul 15 2008, 07:32 PM
- - Ron Hobbs   I would like to note that today is the 45th annive...   Jul 14 2010, 11:30 PM
- - peter59   I'm looking for Mariner IV televison data tab...   Dec 17 2010, 05:38 PM
- - ZLD   May be available from the NSSDC if you contact the...   Dec 17 2010, 09:59 PM
- - Phil Stooke   There was a long discussion of this deeper back in...   Dec 17 2010, 11:15 PM
|- - tedstryk   I have tried multiple places (including the NSSDC)...   Dec 17 2010, 11:47 PM
- - djellison   I think this - http://mm04.nasaimages.org/MediaMan...   Dec 17 2010, 11:54 PM
- - ZLD   That's pretty neat. So they took all the matr...   Dec 18 2010, 12:20 AM
- - djellison   They bracketed the values into big ranges - and ea...   Dec 18 2010, 12:29 AM
- - Phil Stooke   That was in the good old days when people used to ...   Dec 18 2010, 02:31 PM
- - peter59   I just found an old article in LIFE MAGAZINE (23 J...   Dec 24 2010, 09:47 AM
- - peter59   It was not very difficult. Numerical data, lines ...   Dec 24 2010, 02:27 PM
- - Paolo   nice find Peter!   Dec 24 2010, 04:20 PM
- - lyford   Wow, nice work! That is a holiday treat!   Dec 24 2010, 05:27 PM
- - 4th rock from the sun   Well, the numbers are at mostly visible on this hi...   Apr 18 2011, 08:55 PM
|- - SteveM   The task would not be straightforward since the nu...   Apr 18 2011, 10:56 PM
|- - peter59   QUOTE (SteveM @ Apr 18 2011, 10:56 PM) Th...   Apr 19 2011, 06:37 AM
- - djellison   It's in the hall of the Education and Comms of...   Apr 18 2011, 11:34 PM
- - Bjorn Jonsson   Wow!! This is a major improvement in quali...   Apr 19 2011, 01:26 PM
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