Radar And Mariner 10, Best possible mapping, pre-Messenger |
Radar And Mariner 10, Best possible mapping, pre-Messenger |
Apr 28 2005, 06:21 PM
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Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1514 Joined: 20-April 05 Member No.: 321 |
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Dec 30 2007, 09:13 AM
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![]() Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 521 Joined: 20-April 05 From: Poland Member No.: 299 |
I recognize that many of you are waiting for new images of Mercury, but you can't also see old images.
Tape MVE_033 Image 091 (29 November 1973) -------------------- Free software for planetary science (including Cassini Image Viewer).
http://members.tripod.com/petermasek/marinerall.html |
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Jan 4 2008, 09:55 PM
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![]() Interplanetary Dumpster Diver ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderator Posts: 4045 Joined: 17-February 04 From: Powell, TN Member No.: 33 |
I have been playing around with some Mariner-10 shots. I experimented with color, but Mariner 10's camera had such a weird filter selection that, when combined with calibration issues, make things really difficult.
Here is a cleaner view of the south polar view I did a while back, both in original form and from a high pass filter. There is a larger mosaic, but since it depends on a heavy amount of reprojection, I decided to stick with the wide angle data, as Mercury's topography makes significant reprojection obvious. Here is the 3rd encounter Discovery Rupes mosaic, with a small gapfill from stacked first-encounter images to fill the sliver between the two lower images. Also, I did a stack of the "Discovery Dome" area using third encounter images. -------------------- |
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Jan 4 2008, 10:41 PM
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Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1514 Joined: 20-April 05 Member No.: 321 |
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Jan 4 2008, 10:44 PM
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![]() Interplanetary Dumpster Diver ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderator Posts: 4045 Joined: 17-February 04 From: Powell, TN Member No.: 33 |
True-color is such a relative thing....I think even Messenger stuff might go through a few variations as we have seen in color images from many early missions....the problem is the lack of a standard for subtle balancing work. By the way, if anyone downloaded the image right after I posted it, I posted the wrong file...it has now been corrected.
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Jan 4 2008, 10:57 PM
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Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1514 Joined: 20-April 05 Member No.: 321 |
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Jan 5 2008, 12:04 AM
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![]() Interplanetary Dumpster Diver ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderator Posts: 4045 Joined: 17-February 04 From: Powell, TN Member No.: 33 |
What I am trying to say is that it might take a while before images can be calibrated to the point of providing color of the quality of, for example, Cassini images. For the other planets, we at least have good earthbased color data. Mercury images, on the other hand, are so damaged by atmospheric refraction and (in daylight) scattered sunlight that they don't provide much of a reference point. In other words, I can see the color images being produced two years from now looking very different from the ones we will see in the next few weeks.
Incidentally, Mariner 10, while having odd filters, had a great camera, but unfortunately, as has been mentioned before, the camera pointing resembles footage from an drunken camera man. That makes the images very hard to assemble, especially using color. I always wondered why Mark Robinson and his team only produced a color ratio map of a small area. After trying to work with the data, I understand. -------------------- |
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Jan 5 2008, 12:42 AM
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![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3534 Joined: 1-October 05 From: Croatia Member No.: 523 |
I personally think any color uncertainties in the first images will be smaller than any comparative "ground-truth" later, onboard spectrometer corrections will suggest. Mercury, after all, isn't likely to be a very spectrally complex place like Jupiter, Io or Saturn. It will probably have gentle spectral slopes and that's where even discrete filter MDIS composites can come very close in "true color" to what a more precise integration through many spectral wavelengths (approximating the actual spectral curve to a good degree) would give. Messenger carries a spectrometer, although apparently not an imaging one. MASCS will probably be good enough anyway, just like Cassini's VIMS can be used at Saturn.
The MER rovers don't have that kind of training tool and all their surface "true" color views are basically generated on the basis of being the most probable result of solving some integral equations IIRC. I'd like to know if Cassini image products were trained on groundbased imagery (I know my first reactions to the first Saturn color shots were how different it looks than from other earthbased views I saw) because the vantage points were different and direct color calibration would be difficult due to phase angle effects etc. There is certainly variation in color results even today from CICLOPS image releases, although less than before. I'm saying that with good spectrometers onboard you don't even need groundbased observations for good color quality and this might very well turn out to be the case with Mercury. Color me happy if Mercury doesn't turn out as spectrally grey as our own Moon. Even a brownish hue is some personality. -------------------- |
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Jan 5 2008, 01:20 AM
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![]() Interplanetary Dumpster Diver ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderator Posts: 4045 Joined: 17-February 04 From: Powell, TN Member No.: 33 |
I think the lack of color is the problem. With color variations being so faint, balancing is made very difficult. For "natural" views, this may be only subtly visible, but it may effect the warm/cool color appearance, which is why I say there may be a lot of variation at first (it really depends just what color Mercury really is to see whether this materializes). I have never thought it too terribly important to replicate the human eye in planetary images - the RGB response of our eyes is so arbitrary for planetary targets that unless we are generating graphics for astronaut training, using other wavelengths that better highlight a world's compositional variations is a great technique. However the Mariner 10 filters set is just weird. It does have a dedicated yellow filter, but it was seldom (if ever) used. There is so much overlap between the filters used here (UV = blue, blue = green, and "minus UV" = red) that isolating three channels is quite treacherous.
On a more abstract level, I often wonder how much variation there is between different sets of eyes. I have gotten into long debates with people who are looking through my telescope and could swear it has a cool hue while others swear it has a warm hue. I have noticed that on many nights, it looks cool in my left eye and warm in my right eye. Perhaps this is what gives me my opinion on color. -------------------- |
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Jan 5 2008, 05:46 AM
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Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1514 Joined: 20-April 05 Member No.: 321 |
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JRehling Radar And Mariner 10 Apr 28 2005, 06:21 PM
Decepticon http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~rhill/alpo/mer...f/mes... May 11 2005, 12:20 AM
Decepticon http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/WebImg/HarmonRadarFig2.... May 11 2005, 12:25 AM
lyford QUOTE (Decepticon @ May 10 2005, 04:25 PM)htt... May 11 2005, 01:48 AM
JRehling [...] May 11 2005, 04:47 PM
tedstryk (Added detail: One of the major methodologies in h... May 11 2005, 07:18 PM
JRehling [...] May 11 2005, 09:34 PM
Phil Stooke I too am interested in this topic of pre-Messenger... May 14 2005, 04:51 PM
JRehling [...] May 16 2005, 12:04 AM
Bob Shaw The mercury maps are astonishing at this stage in ... May 16 2005, 12:50 PM
JRehling [...] May 16 2005, 08:45 PM
Bob Shaw Thanks! May 16 2005, 09:11 PM
Chmee These are great images obtained from the ground. ... May 17 2005, 04:43 PM
lyford QUOTE (Chmee @ May 17 2005, 08:43 AM)These ar... May 17 2005, 04:53 PM
JRehling [...] May 17 2005, 05:59 PM
Bob Shaw A 'family portrait' of the Solar System by... May 17 2005, 07:45 PM
djellison iirc - Hubble has a minimum sun angle which is can... May 17 2005, 04:54 PM
Chmee I wonder if the concern is the actual damage if Hu... May 17 2005, 05:27 PM
gndonald Erwin Van Der Velden's home page has moved. Hi... Aug 15 2005, 03:26 PM
Bob Shaw QUOTE (gndonald @ Aug 15 2005, 04:26 PM)Erwin... Aug 15 2005, 07:08 PM
OWW QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Aug 15 2005, 07:08 PM)Wow... Nov 15 2005, 07:17 PM
DonPMitchell Here's one of Ksanfomality's new photos of... May 8 2006, 05:56 AM
PhilHorzempa I believe that 'Sky and Telescope' publish... May 20 2006, 05:04 AM
tedstryk http://cps.earth.northwestern.edu/M10/TXT/encounte... May 20 2006, 04:40 PM

PhilHorzempa QUOTE (tedstryk @ May 20 2006, 12:40 PM) ... May 23 2006, 03:00 AM
DonPMitchell QUOTE (PhilHorzempa @ May 19 2006, 10:04 ... May 21 2006, 03:06 PM
Malmer QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ May 21 2006, 05:06 ... May 21 2006, 08:38 PM
DonPMitchell QUOTE (Malmer @ May 21 2006, 01:38 PM) Th... May 22 2006, 01:47 AM
PhilHorzempa QUOTE (Malmer @ May 21 2006, 04:38 PM) Th... May 27 2006, 05:06 AM
edstrick When Mariner 10 did it's second flyby, as it w... May 21 2006, 09:09 AM
Bob Shaw QUOTE (edstrick @ May 21 2006, 10:09 AM) ... May 21 2006, 11:46 AM
dvandorn You know, I got a book nearly 20 years ago that de... May 22 2006, 07:08 AM
Bob Shaw oDoug:
Charles A Cross did an interesting mapping... May 22 2006, 01:54 PM
edstrick Mariner 10 and Voyager had very similar camera sys... May 22 2006, 08:45 AM
Phil Stooke Charles Cross did some interesting work. He let m... May 22 2006, 03:35 PM
djellison I am a BAA member - give me some specifics and I... May 22 2006, 03:47 PM
Phil Stooke I'm sorry, Doug, I don't know any more tha... May 22 2006, 05:07 PM
DonPMitchell Do you have the ISIS calibration data for the Mari... May 23 2006, 04:00 AM
antipode Outstanding new Arecibo radar images of equatorial... Dec 7 2006, 01:52 AM
Phil Stooke Yes, that is an excellent article.
Phil Dec 7 2006, 02:57 AM
dvandorn Too bad it would cost me $30USD to take a loo... Dec 7 2006, 04:49 AM
tedstryk http://www.naic.edu/~radarusr/Mercury.pdf
You can... Dec 8 2006, 01:55 PM
angel1801 I always wanted some good full disk coverage of Me... Dec 8 2006, 03:56 PM
tedstryk That would be the first author, John Harmon. Dec 8 2006, 05:17 PM
Phil Stooke This map is a composite of the USGS shaded relief ... Dec 9 2006, 05:58 PM
Tayfun Öner While reading this thread I realized I made the cy... Dec 9 2006, 06:37 PM
dvandorn Mucho, mucho gracias for the maps, Phil and Tayfun... Dec 9 2006, 08:10 PM
Phil Stooke I have updated my composite map of Mercury, adding... Apr 8 2007, 06:18 PM
JRehling [...] Apr 9 2007, 08:34 PM
Phil Stooke ... and the southern hemisphere:
Phil Apr 8 2007, 06:19 PM
volcanopele Using the above map, I ran through the first MESSE... Apr 8 2007, 07:34 PM
ugordan Nice view VP. One thing I always wondered about vi... Apr 8 2007, 07:48 PM
Phil Stooke That is really cool, VP, thanks.
ugordan, I thi... Apr 8 2007, 08:30 PM
ugordan I see, Phil. I was under the impression that in 3D... Apr 8 2007, 08:39 PM
Phil Stooke I don't mean you! But I encounter so many... Apr 9 2007, 03:16 AM
lyford QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Apr 8 2007, 08:16 PM... Apr 9 2007, 03:51 PM
tedstryk All this is well and good, Phil, but let me ask yo... Apr 9 2007, 07:02 PM
Phil Stooke Yes, Ted, I use them to make cootie-catchers... o... Apr 9 2007, 07:27 PM
tfisher QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Apr 9 2007, 03:27 PM... Apr 11 2007, 03:33 AM
PhilHorzempa The significance of all of this effort to squeeze ... Apr 10 2007, 06:05 PM
Phil Stooke I will go on record saying that I don't believ... Apr 10 2007, 06:09 PM
JRehling [...] Apr 10 2007, 11:27 PM
tedstryk QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Apr 10 2007, 06:09 P... Apr 10 2007, 11:34 PM
volcanopele Why do people see vague, dark, circular albedo mar... Apr 11 2007, 01:27 AM
tedstryk So that, should they get lucky, they can claim the... Apr 11 2007, 09:52 AM
Tayfun Öner As the first encounter is getting near, I plan to ... Dec 6 2007, 01:48 PM
Phil Stooke Yes, this is a good idea. It will be interesting ... Dec 6 2007, 07:22 PM
JRehling [...] Dec 6 2007, 07:34 PM
nprev QUOTE (JRehling @ Dec 6 2007, 11:34 AM) W... Dec 6 2007, 08:21 PM
4th rock from the sun Hi,
Ok, here's the familiar Mercury map with ... Dec 6 2007, 09:01 PM
Tayfun Öner Here it is. Some notes about the map: It was const... Dec 6 2007, 09:39 PM
Tayfun Öner And here is version 2 with some fills. Dec 7 2007, 09:33 AM
CAP-Team Here's a map of Mercury that I've been usi... Dec 7 2007, 05:58 PM
gcecil QUOTE (CAP-Team @ Dec 7 2007, 12:58 ... Dec 8 2007, 02:11 AM
ElkGroveDan Welcome Gerald. Thanks for the links to your pape... Dec 8 2007, 02:42 AM
Tayfun Öner Hi gcecil, thanks for the map but it seems to have... Dec 8 2007, 10:17 AM
edstrick Mariner 10 took a series of approach <crescent... Dec 8 2007, 11:46 AM
Tayfun Öner I am not sure if edstrick's post is an answer ... Dec 8 2007, 12:13 PM
gcecil QUOTE (Tayfun Öner @ Dec 8 2007, 07:13 AM... Dec 8 2007, 01:19 PM
Tayfun Öner Here is Version 3 with optical data added from Bau... Dec 8 2007, 02:35 PM
edstrick I didn't spot the scale problem, I was just po... Dec 9 2007, 10:11 AM
tedstryk Here is an example of a Mariner set that shows a b... Dec 14 2007, 03:56 AM
hendric QUOTE (tedstryk @ Jan 4 2008, 07:20 PM) O... Jan 6 2008, 04:19 AM
nprev My brother is both color-blind (red-green, which a... Jan 6 2008, 05:35 AM
peter59 Mariner 10 - First encounter with Mercury.
Image... Jan 7 2008, 07:03 PM
tedstryk Here is a more distant approach view showing a lot... Jan 7 2008, 10:00 PM
peter59 Mariner 10 - First encounter with Mercury (March 2... Jan 9 2008, 06:47 PM
JRehling [...] Jan 9 2008, 06:52 PM
tedstryk For the record, since the Mariner-10 outbound mosa... Jan 10 2008, 05:25 AM
JRehling [...] Jan 10 2008, 06:55 PM
edstrick I never understood why they didn't include tha... Jan 27 2008, 08:38 AM![]() ![]() |
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