IPB
X   Site Message
(Message will auto close in 2 seconds)

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

New Post On The Dirs Site, new mosaics of titan
hubdel11
post May 1 2005, 10:40 AM
Post #1


Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: 22-April 05
Member No.: 355



the DIRS have posted 2 new mosaics on their site :
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/%7Ekholso/Titan...3K_big_ster.jpg
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/%7Ekholso/Titan...Apr15_gnom_.png
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
deglr6328
post May 1 2005, 06:21 PM
Post #2


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 356
Joined: 12-March 05
Member No.: 190



QUOTE (dvandorn @ May 1 2005, 11:03 AM)
I guess I've just been spoiled by the MERs and MGS, but I am disappointed in the quality of the images from Huygens.  Why the very limited number of pixels per image -- was it a matter of the width of the comm pipe between Huygens and Cassini?  Would it have cost that much more in terms of a weight penalty to build five or ten times more pixels into the camera system?  Even in the late 80s, when Huygens was first developed, they could build higher-resolution cameras than they ended up using...


Yes it was the com link. Because Huygens was descending on a parachute, twisting and swaying in the wind, it was of course not possible to use a high-gain directional antenna and because it was a small probe it only had so much of a power budget to make RF transmissions with. So Huygens was restricted to a mere 10 watts of transmitter power at 8,192 bits per second. Thats just 1 KBps blink.gif !! I think condsidering the amount of other data they had to transmit (something like 5 other science instrument packages with several individual instruments per package with each one producing data) the images we got back were really really good. The DISR team knew the bandwidth they had to work with and they squeezed every last drop of data through it that they could.

This problem of a trade off between directionality and power got me thinking though. Maybe someone here more knowledgeable can correct me. If we're ever to increase the science returns from these types of missions there must be a way around this problem somehow. Optical transmission is out of the question right away obviously because of the even higer limit on pointing accuracy and attenuation prblems associated with the atmosphere. But what about a phased array transmitter? The problem with using directional radio transmitters to increase the signal/noise ratio on a decending atmospheric probe is obvious - conventionally, you'd need to use a dish to concentrate the beam in a particualr diretion (just like cassini's high gain antenna) and you'd need to continually re-point this dish as you're falling and turning under the parachute. You would lose track of where to keep pointed after just a few seconds of this. But what if you had a transmitter on the orbiting data recieving spacecraft that sent a pure tone to the falling probe and a small fixed position directional reciever antenna (juat a whip antenna) on the probe? It would be easy to determine at least roughly where the signal was coming from as you were moving and rotating by simply analysing the strength of the received tone and when this information is coupled to a phased array transmitter you could continually re-point the radio beam in this direction instantly, without moving any physical antenna. Phased array (digitally controlled) techniques are fairly new, I wonder, has this ever been considered before? huh.gif

Incidentally there are reports on Huygens data return that I simply do not understand. For instance it was stated in a press release that 474 Mbits of data was returned by huygens over a 3.75 Hr. time. Now, every single place where I have seen it listed, the data rate from huygens is said to be 8192 kiloBITS/sec (fixed rate). Even figuring generously at a 4 hour mission that only gives you a maximum of 14,400 seconds to work with for a max of 14 MBytes (or 112 MBits) of data so where this 474 number comes from I have no clue. Once again ESA is no help in figuring this one out as they've published several conflicting values of total data returned by Huygens. dry.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- hubdel11   New Post On The Dirs Site   May 1 2005, 10:40 AM
- - dvandorn   QUOTE (hubdel11 @ May 1 2005, 05:40 AM)the DI...   May 1 2005, 11:03 AM
- - Decepticon   It didn't help that the Earth testing images w...   May 1 2005, 01:22 PM
- - deglr6328   QUOTE (dvandorn @ May 1 2005, 11:03 AM)I gues...   May 1 2005, 06:21 PM
|- - tedstryk   In response to Phil's comment, that trick was ...   May 2 2005, 01:16 AM
|- - tty   QUOTE (deglr6328 @ May 1 2005, 08:21 PM)This ...   May 2 2005, 11:14 AM
- - Phil Stooke   I know nothing about this, so I'm only playing...   May 1 2005, 07:12 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (deglr6328 @ May 1 2005, 06:21 PM)Incid...   May 1 2005, 07:26 PM
- - Decepticon   Looking at the above images will they eventually c...   May 1 2005, 07:27 PM
- - deglr6328   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ May 1 2005, 07:12 PM)I k...   May 1 2005, 09:22 PM
- - alan   QUOTE (Decepticon @ May 1 2005, 01:22 PM)It d...   May 2 2005, 12:15 AM
- - edstrick   Note also that the lowest altitude frames from Huy...   May 2 2005, 09:06 AM
- - tty   I might add that there is a method to increase the...   May 2 2005, 11:41 AM
- - Phil Stooke   tty mentions slight movement of Huygens to increas...   May 2 2005, 11:57 AM
- - Phil Stooke   Here is an example of the results achievable with ...   May 2 2005, 01:22 PM
|- - centsworth_II   I see a lot of talk about how much image data coul...   May 2 2005, 03:22 PM
||- - tedstryk   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ May 2 2005, 03:22 PM)I...   May 2 2005, 03:56 PM
||- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (tedstryk @ May 2 2005, 10:56 AM)I have...   May 2 2005, 04:55 PM
|- - dilo   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ May 2 2005, 01:22 PM)Her...   May 3 2005, 09:48 PM
- - deglr6328   QUOTE (tedstryk @ May 2 2005, 03:56 PM)I have...   May 3 2005, 03:20 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   One question-and-answer page on the DISR site ( ht...   May 3 2005, 05:15 AM
- - scalbers   QUOTE (hubdel11 @ May 1 2005, 10:40 AM)the DI...   May 3 2005, 06:08 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Dilo - only the worst noise is removed, plus other...   May 4 2005, 01:10 AM
|- - dilo   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ May 4 2005, 01:10 AM)Dil...   May 4 2005, 06:07 AM
- - alan   Three new DISR mosiacs posted http://www.lpl.ariz...   May 5 2005, 11:46 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (alan @ May 5 2005, 06:46 PM)Three new ...   May 6 2005, 09:30 AM
- - Decepticon   Why are the channel areas sharper than the rest of...   May 6 2005, 01:51 AM
- - maycm   This is an alternative location for the new mosaic...   May 6 2005, 07:09 PM
- - David   I still have not seen any attempted explanation of...   May 8 2005, 11:29 PM
- - TheChemist   From the DISR public website : "Check out th...   May 15 2005, 03:47 PM
|- - gpurcell   QUOTE (TheChemist @ May 15 2005, 03:47 PM)Fro...   May 16 2005, 05:20 PM
|- - volcanopele   QUOTE (gpurcell @ May 16 2005, 10:20 AM)We re...   May 16 2005, 09:02 PM
- - GregM   .   May 17 2005, 04:43 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   Hmmm... ...'Titan' - that was Chris Huygen...   May 17 2005, 12:04 PM
|- - Gsnorgathon   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ May 17 2005, 12:04 PM)... A...   May 18 2005, 09:19 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Bob wrote: Apropos of Titanian music, apart from ...   May 17 2005, 01:08 PM
- - alan   In the box with the image release it says: "M...   May 25 2005, 06:21 PM
- - volcanopele   QUOTE (alan @ May 25 2005, 11:21 AM)In the bo...   May 25 2005, 07:00 PM


Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 15th December 2024 - 10:50 PM
RULES AND GUIDELINES
Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting.

IMAGE COPYRIGHT
Images posted on UnmannedSpaceflight.com may be copyrighted. Do not reproduce without permission. Read here for further information on space images and copyright.

OPINIONS AND MODERATION
Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators.
SUPPORT THE FORUM
Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member.