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Sunspot
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4180840.stm

Europe has fixed on a concept for its next mission to land on the Red Planet.

It aims to send a single robot rover to the Martian surface along with another, stationary, science package.
Marcel
They want to land that rover so badly......(which in understand). But:

American datatransportation, american payload (in return for that) and american EDL gear (probably to make sure that it's going to work).

Seems they don't have so much faith in designing their own vehicle laugh.gif There's nothing wrong with working together, but it's not giving me a feeling of an organisation that is very self confident......
djellison
And why the american data realy - is MEX expected to give up in the near future?

America wont supply an EDl system - ITAR makes sure of that.

Doug
Marcel
QUOTE (djellison @ Aug 25 2005, 01:39 PM)
And why the american data realy - is MEX expected to give up in the near future?

America wont supply an EDl system - ITAR makes sure of that.

Doug
*

They probably don't want to rely just on MEX, because IF it fails before 2013 (which is a long time from now), they have no orbiting european hardware left, and DTE is not a option offcourse by that time, considering the produced datavolume of such a craft.....

You're right about ITAR.....but they WANT the american EDL system, as is written in the article.....

Anyway.....the more rovers up there, the better. But it would be better to allocate the money for, let's say, 2, 3 or even 4 sojouner type of vehicles (with moles and streaming video on its mast, maybe even brought there by the same (1 or 2) launcher. Equip them with tiny little sweet RTG's and there you go.

But that's my idea.....
RNeuhaus
What is MEX? I haven't heard of it. Will be glad to be acquainted of it?

Rodolfo smile.gif
Marcel
QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Aug 25 2005, 02:43 PM)
What is MEX? I haven't heard of it. Will be glad to be acquainted of it?

Rodolfo  smile.gif
*

Mars Express. The ESA orbiter.

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/
RNeuhaus
Ooppss, it is a smart word!

Thanks Marcel. biggrin.gif
djellison
One thing space isnt short of it's Acronyms smile.gif

MEX, MGS, MODY, MRO, MER, MSL...it's madness

Doug
Marcel
QUOTE (djellison @ Aug 25 2005, 02:56 PM)
One thing space isnt short of it's Acronyms smile.gif

MEX, MGS, MODY, MRO, MER, MSL...it's madness

Doug
*

And you seem to be the specialist....
Euh, what's MODY ?
RNeuhaus
QUOTE (djellison @ Aug 25 2005, 09:56 AM)
One thing space isnt short of it's Acronyms smile.gif

MEX, MGS, MODY, MRO, MER, MSL...it's madness

Doug
*

Yes, indeed inclusive for any kitchen cheff won't be able to figure them out! laugh.gif

Rodolfo
Marcel
QUOTE (Marcel @ Aug 25 2005, 02:58 PM)
And you seem to be the specialist....
Euh, what's MODY ?
*

Ah, now i remember....
Cugel
From the article:

QUOTE
a mass of 120kg for the rover and 8-14kg for the science payload


That's a lot of balsa wood! But I wonder how much drilling you can get out of that?
A MER rover is 185 kg. and is totally geology dedicated. Is it possible to build a life detection system in 8-14 kg. ????
RNeuhaus
QUOTE (Cugel @ Aug 25 2005, 10:13 AM)
From the article:
That's a lot of balsa wood! But I wonder how much drilling you can get out of that?
A MER rover is 185 kg. and is totally geology dedicated. Is it possible to build a life detection system in 8-14 kg. ????
*

Besides, the rover has only 4 wheels instead of 6 wheels. I am affraid that it will need purified sands on all parts... blink.gif

Rodolfo
djellison
A straight copy of the Beagle 2 science payload wouldnt be a bad move - given time to test and calibrate it all properly.

Doug
djellison
Oh MODY - some call it MO2k1- Mars Odyssey smile.gif

Doug
SigurRosFan
Will SMILE fly to Mars with ESA's ExoMars??

http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:ayPuf8...a+exomars&hl=de
RNeuhaus
QUOTE
SigurRosFan(Posted Today, 02:32 PM)

The ESA Technology, Mars Organic Analyzer to detect the life in the crust is interesting but if I think that the Mars life was more than 3 thoushands millions years ago (I don't agree with billions and it means millions millions!), then the amino must be very vanished comparing to ones of Atacama Desert.

The desert Atacama was covered by ocean probably about 20-40 millions years ago. So by that land there must be some fossils and amino compositions. The north of Chile and South of Peru have one of the most dry places of the world with almost no precipitation and there have plenty of dunes on lower lands and rocky on upper land, the ladden of Andean mountain chain.

Rodolfo
BruceMoomaw
One reason that NASA decided not to fly a 1-meter soil drill on MSL is that it will, in any case, carry a small drill capable of coring samples from several cm beneath the surface of sedimentary rocks -- and it is actually far likelier that ancient biochemical fossil remains can survive in those places, sealed off completely from Mars' surface oxidants, than that they can survive a meter down in its current soil.
SigurRosFan
Sorry. Wrong link.

MOA will fly definitely(!) to Mars.

I mean SMILE (Specific Molecular Identification of Life Experiment).

"The criteria for ExoMars are tough. Researchers hoping to get a place on the craft have to design a device that will look for biomarkers but not exceed 3 kg in mass or measure more than 16x16x20 cm."

http://www.nature.com/materials/news/news/.../050620-15.html
Rakhir
Alcatel Alenia Space starts the ExoMars mission design

http://www.alcatel.com/vpr/;jsessionid=111...equestid=451784

This contract, worth about 13 million Euros, calls for one year mission design work up to the preliminary design review including the definition of the main system elements of the mission.

EDIT : Link corrected, thanks to Vikingmars.
vikingmars
smile.gif Here is the missing link :
http://www.alcatel.com/vpr/;jsessionid=111...equestid=451784

QUOTE (Rakhir @ Jan 31 2006, 02:25 PM)
Alcatel Alenia Space starts the ExoMars mission design

http://www.alcatel.com/vpr/?body=http://ww...eKey/31012006uk

This contract, worth about 13 million Euros, calls for one year mission design work up to the preliminary design review including the definition of the main system elements of the mission.
*
AlexBlackwell
Excerpt from the February 13, 2006, issue of Aviation Week & Space Technology:

World News & Analysis
U.S. Moon Focus Provides Opportunities for Europe on Mars, Science
Aviation Week & Space Technology
02/13/2006, page 44

Michael A. Taverna
Paris and Toulouse

[...]

"The main objective of the European Space Agency's Aurora exploration program, launched in December, is Mars. ExoMars--a 2011 lander/rover mission intended as a precursor for a Mars Sample Return (MSR) flight--will lead off.

"Funding for ExoMars is already well beyond the requested 593-million-euro budget envelope. ESA has 651 million euros in commitments to date, and is likely to exceed 700 million euros with the likely participation of Canada.

"Although the extra money could be used to add an orbiter to ExoMars, ESA is leaning toward earmarking the funds for MSR, which is already expected to get the lion's share of 73 million euros in Aurora technology funding (AW&ST Jan. 23, p. 15). 'Interest in MSR has definitely gone up a notch,' said Alain Pradier, who heads Aurora's technology office. Noting that NASA recently pushed back its date for MSR to the end of the next decade, while ESA continues to target a first mission in 2016-18, Pradier said ESA might even be willing to take a lead role in MSR--or at least act as the focal point for international collaboration.

"European officials acknowledged ESA is not yet in a position to do this. For one thing, said Richard Bonneville, who heads solar system exploration at French space agency CNES, Italy--the only European space power with an expanding budget--is showing a strong interest in the Moon. But he noted that the European science community has consistently backed the Martian preference. The final road map for ESA's Cosmic Vision science program for 2015-25, issued in October, lists planetary exploration as one of four themes to be pursued, and Mars figures prominently on the roster of exploration goals."
Rakhir
Europe Mars shot looks to upgrade
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4812556.stm

The consequences of the US science budget cuttings on Exomars mission.
AlexBlackwell
QUOTE (Rakhir @ Mar 16 2006, 01:07 PM) *
Europe Mars shot looks to upgrade
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4812556.stm

The consequences of the US science budget cuttings on Exomars mission.

Don't underestimate the "nationalistic" angle, Rakhir.

"[Converting the ExoMars carrier spacecraft into an orbiter, Vago] said, would allow the European mission 'to gain some independence from MRO' and also pave the way for 'a follow-up to the excellent science Mars Express is conducting today.'

"Going down the route of using MRO as a relay means ExoMars would have to compete for time on the orbiter with Nasa's Mars Science Laboratory (MSL) rover, due to launch in 2009."
ljk4-1
The technology for this "lab on a chip" sounds amazing, but since it seems
pretty clear that any existing life on Mars is probably deep underground,
what can they hope to find with it just from analysing the surface? Waste
products from the creatures that drift upwards? Dead bodies? No, I am
not being facetious.


Life-Marker Chip Planned For ESA Mars Lander

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Life_Mar...ars_Lander.html
tty
QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Apr 25 2006, 04:51 PM) *
The technology for this "lab on a chip" sounds amazing, but since it seems
pretty clear that any existing life on Mars is probably deep underground,
what can they hope to find with it just from analysing the surface? Waste
products from the creatures that drift upwards? Dead bodies? No, I am
not being facetious.



A great deal. There has been a lot of progress in recent years in identifying bio-marker molecules that indicate the one-time existance of a variety of life forms (cyanobacteria, methanogens, eucaryotes etc) and which are stable enough to last billions of years here on Earth. The main problem is the possibly strongly oxidizing chemistry of Martian topsoil, so it would probably be advisable to crush rocks and analyze the interior.

tty
PhilHorzempa


Even though the American Mars program has been cut back, it's nice
to know that there will still be one more "M.E.R." going to Mars.
Here is a recent look at the 2011 ExoMars Rover as it drives off of its
airbag-assisted lander.


http://esamultimedia.esa.int/images/aurora...rslander_HI.jpg


This image is from ESA.


Another Phil
lyford
That's a really nice pic - looks like the drill is included? Like the "chrome" finish tongue.gif

I really like the mission overlap as well - MSL should still be kicking by then... Heck, MERs may even last until Phoenix lands!

More here...
jamescanvin
QUOTE (PhilHorzempa @ May 26 2006, 01:03 PM) *


That's a neat trick getting it to roll to a stop at the top of a nice hill!

Nice looking rover smile.gif


EDIT:
Husband Hill summit in the background of this one if I'm not mistaken.

http://www.esa.int/esa-mmg/mmg.pl?b=b&keyw...&start=6&size=b

James
BruceMoomaw
I suspect ESA is not going to be able to come anywhere close to cramming all of their currently planned instrument payload onto that little rover. In particular, I suspect the drill may have to get the boot. By the way, I have found the text description of that drill, assuming that it is indeed the same one that Italy was originally supposed to provide for Dan Goldin's hallucinatory 2003 Mars Sample Return mission. (The previously included drawings, unfortunately, have been removed from the website.)

http://ars.asi.it/bandi/marte2003/drill-ao-pip.html
remcook
QUOTE (lyford @ May 26 2006, 05:00 AM) *
Like the "chrome" finish tongue.gif


Cool, they're sending a toaster! wink.gif
AndyG
QUOTE (jamescanvin @ May 26 2006, 05:14 AM) *
That's a neat trick getting it to roll to a stop at the top of a nice hill!

That does rather suggest a 5-metre landing ellipse. laugh.gif

But, apart from its shiney-zingyiness (and surely that's so 1990's?) isn't it a wee bit familiar? Is this the ESA taking up the CCCP's torch that formerly produced the TU-144 and Buran? rolleyes.gif

Andy G
karolp
At the first sight what looks much different to me are 3 "eyes" on top of that mast instead of 2 as in MERs. Is this 1. Red 2. Green 3. Blue or something else? Also, I cannot really see any navcams...
Bob Shaw
Here's one I prepared earlier!

Bob Shaw
ustrax
QUOTE (jamescanvin @ May 26 2006, 05:14 AM) *


It surely is! biggrin.gif

And look at all those tiny flags on it!
Dressed for success!... smile.gif
Cugel
And armed to kill!

I wonder if the motors on that segmented neck will be used only for deployment or if that camera platform will retain its flexibility throughout the mission (with how many degrees of freedom?). It could make some pretty awesome self-portraits!
There seems to be no IDD arm on the thing, other than that monstrous drilling device. So I guess all sample analysis will be done inside the machine?
jamescanvin
QUOTE (Cugel @ May 28 2006, 12:40 AM) *
There seems to be no IDD arm on the thing, other than that monstrous drilling device. So I guess all sample analysis will be done inside the machine?


Yes there is, tucked under the front there.
Bob Shaw
I hope they have some way to pop the drill assembly off the rover if it gets stuck - it'd be a bit of a pity if the drill simply screwed the thing solidly to one spot!

Hmmm... ...Pepsi, anyone?

Bob Shaw
PhilCo126
Well, the ESA Marsrover ExoMars 2011 project is featured on the cover of ESA bulletin N 126 - May 2006. This is a FREE tri-monthly magazine by ESA publications on high quality glossy paper.
Great ExoMars article by the Microgravity & Exploration program dept of ESTEC - Noordwijk - Netherlands.
djellison
QUOTE (karolp @ May 26 2006, 11:17 AM) *
At the first sight what looks much different to me are 3 "eyes" on top of that mast instead of 2 as in MERs. Is this 1. Red 2. Green 3. Blue or something else?


Well - actually, MER has 5 eyes on the mast. Two Pancams, Two Hazcams, and Mini-Tes...perhaps this is two variable focal length cameras, and then something TES like in the middle...OR...two wide angle navcams, and a zoom-able high res pancam in mono.
jaredGalen
QUOTE (PhilCo126 @ May 30 2006, 11:40 AM) *
Well, the ESA Marsrover ExoMars 2011 project is featured on the cover of ESA bulletin N 126 - May 2006. This is a FREE tri-monthly magazine by ESA publications on high quality glossy paper.
Great ExoMars article by the Microgravity & Exploration program dept of ESTEC - Noordwijk - Netherlands.


It's great, I saw this post while at work. then I arrived home to find the ESA rover looking up at me from the cover of the bulletin. It really is great, being free and all is even nicer! smile.gif

There's a nice article on SOHO too.
Stephen
I notice the ExoMars rover as drawn in those pics has got quite large cleats on its wheels. Would larger ones have been useful on the MERs as well (for getting more easily out of sandtraps, say)?

======
Stephen

QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ May 26 2006, 04:39 AM) *
(The previously included drawings, unfortunately, have been removed from the website.)

http://ars.asi.it/bandi/marte2003/drill-ao-pip.html

Yes and no. The pics on that page do appear to be missing. However, there is a zip file here (about 850K):

http://ars.asi.it/bandi/marte2003/drill.ZIP

which contains an MS word document of the same article with the pics embedded.

======
Stephen

EDIT NOTE: These were actually two separate posts!
RNeuhaus
QUOTE (Stephen @ May 30 2006, 08:50 PM) *
I notice the ExoMars rover as drawn in those pics has got quite large cleats on its wheels. Would larger ones have been useful on the MERs as well (for getting more easily out of sandtraps, say)?

Nope.

The best "tires" or wheels for sandy terrain are ones with very wide and flat with octogonal strips. The cleats does not help anything but to worse the traction capability due to a lower contact surface area. The cleats are only good for firm lands.

Rodolfo
ljk4-1
British Scientists Unveil Latest Craft To Search For Life On Mars

London, England (AFP) Jun 12, 2006

British scientists on Monday took the wraps off a prototype craft to search for signs of life on Mars, hailing it the smartest piece of equipment ever designed for exploration of the red planet.

http://www.marsdaily.com/reports/British_S...fe_On_Mars.html
ustrax
QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Jun 13 2006, 01:53 PM) *
British Scientists Unveil Latest Craft To Search For Life On Mars

London, England (AFP) Jun 12, 2006

British scientists on Monday took the wraps off a prototype craft to search for signs of life on Mars, hailing it the smartest piece of equipment ever designed for exploration of the red planet.

http://www.marsdaily.com/reports/British_S...fe_On_Mars.html


Bridget?!? smile.gif
Analyst
I am from Europe, but this article is cheap talk, and some bullshit.

QUOTE
"The Beagle was really advanced in comparison to most of the stuff NASA is doing. This will be more advanced. This will be the most advanced thing to land on Mars, ..."

[...]

Spirit and Opportunity have been slowly scouting Mars since landing in early 2004.

"They have done maybe 10 kilometers (6.2 miles) in total," Healy said. (The actual total, according to NASA, is 14.86 kilometers, or 9.23 miles.) "The rover here (Bridget) will have done that within four to six months at the most. It's got to go to 10 sites that are up to one kilometer (0.6 miles) apart.

"It won't be commanded on the ground. It will get there quicker and spend more time searching using its sophisticated technology... It will bring back more information."


Well, Beagle MAY have been advanced UNTIL EDL. I remember the talk in 2003: NASA will do driving and pictures, we will do real science. And I wondered how they put all these instruments into Beagle. They cut other corners.

Have they ever heard something about MSL? What is special if in 2011 you are better than two rovers launched in 2003? I still don't see them putting all the instruments, including the drill, into a rover the size of MER.

If their budget is 700m euros and 150m euros are for the rover INCLUDING some kind of autonav (quite cheap compared to MER), then 550m euros are for the orbiter, the EDL system and the launcher? A Soyuz is too small for a lander AND an orbiter: Two launches or an Ariane 5?

I believe it if it's on the pad.

Analyst
ljk4-1
QUOTE (ustrax @ Jun 13 2006, 09:07 AM) *
Bridget?!? smile.gif


British scientists are apparently very lonely. wink.gif

To quote from the article:

"They have done maybe 10 kilometers (6.2 miles) in total," Healy said. (The actual total, according to NASA, is 14.86 kilometers, or 9.23 miles.) "The rover here (Bridget) will have done that within four to six months at the most. It's got to go to 10 sites that are up to one kilometer (0.6 miles) apart."

To echo Analyst, of course a rover one decade from the time of the MERs is
likely going to do better. But I am not impressed that it will do things faster.
It's the quality of the data I care about. If you want faster and better (but
not cheaper), send humans.
djellison
QUOTE (Analyst @ Jun 13 2006, 02:49 PM) *
I believe it if it's on the pad.


MPL and Beagle 2 made it to the pad....it's the hard stop at the other end that's the real challenge smile.gif


Doug
Analyst
Good point.
Redstone
Haven't seen this posted yet, so...

You can download a 3 minute .avi video of Briget in action.

Download

Now if only JPL would let us see the MSL video. rolleyes.gif
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