http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000773060288/

Interesting robot but I think that anybody won't put any valuable scientific instrument on this unless it does not climb a mountain. There is high risk that it might fall off.

Rodolfo

Maybe it could be part of a robot team?
A big rover (MSL?) with a small, dedicated climber that can be dispatched to sample locations high on a crater wall. The samples are returned to the rover, and the small climber is stored on board. This way it would be possible to rearch gullies that are mostly located on high and steep crater rims.

One of those critters would have come in handy at Burns Cliff. Oppy would rolled up as close as she could get, then deploy the Lemur for closer inspection higher up.

The robot would have to have a minimal set of useful instruments - an MI, spectrometer of some sort, etc. The challenge would be to harden the components to survive a fall if it should have one.

Airbags?

In Mars, anybody will help to spider robot. It must be self healing, self get up if it is on back, it must be strong enough to resist any fall (Mars lower gravity is a help). To collect any sample is out of the idea. MSL will carry a laser to analyse the stone composition.

Rodolfo

Rodolfo: Em, MSL will carry a laser that is used for spectroscopic measurements of rocks, mainly to characterise wheathering layers (by evaporating thin layers and analyse the reflecting light) and make rough selection of what to analyse within the chromatographic device (a wet lab). And this one definately needs a sample.

But: I think it's a very, very nice idea, this climber combined with MSL (or another secondairy, small craft besides MSL to support the main vehicle and provide it with samples). Especially a hardened one, that is able to crawl even on it's back, like a spider, or can erect itself after a fall or a slide. A fancy anchoring device (that can hold on and let go easily time after time) is needed however. I'm sure a diamond drill combined with a plug that clamps into the hole is a feasible technique for that. It would be great to be able to reach steep outcrops this way.


And it could take pictures of MSL from a distance......

Don't you guy's tell me that the science package is allready determined and that it cannot be changed anymore. It can. 2013 is is 8 more years !

Well - even thought you've told me that I cant tell you....

It's cant. They're already tight on Mass and volume - and your suggesting a new untried, untested spider?

Doug

Just crawled back from under my desk. I knew you'd react on that one.

I understand that it cannot be bolted on just like that. But; there's not a single part made yet for the mission. It's just drawings. So, change the design i'd say.

Considering the untested spider: build it and test it. There's plenty of time to test it to the bone. Besides: building and testing a skycrane is a hell of a lot more complicated ! And that doesn't seems to be the problem for the team. So, a cute little spider sample collecting device (or two, for redundancy) must be feasable as well.

Or maybe not You're probably right, but i just can't stand bureaucracy and inflexible designs. The whole mass and volume issue is just because there's a launcher determined allready.....

Besides: is there any news on the skycrane testing so far ? It's been very silent in that threat.....

And that's been determined because the budget's determined, and the budget's been determined for years.

You have to freeze designs years in advance so you can then make sure the design works. The mass of the payload determines the mass of the vehicle, which determines the mass of the entry vehicle which determines the size of the entry vehcile which determines the parachute, the fuel load, the cruise stage, the rover suspension....all the way to the launch vehicle.

At some point, you have to say "right - you've got XX kg and YY litres, we're off to build a rover, EDL system and cruise stage to fly it on"

Doug

A budget is a certain amount of money, reserved for the mission in mind. The latter indeed being detailed in scientific purpose, outline of the vehicle in terms of dimensions, mass and payload. But also in terms of WHEN the thing will be airborne to my opinion! And this is my whole point:

What's the value of pinpointing the budget to the dollar, without knowing when it's going to be spent.

I can't understand why budgets need to be calculated (and thereby tie the design to an inflexible mission far in advance) precisely, and on the other hand are wiped from the table just that easy for 4 years.....
Maybe it's because i sometimes don't understand politics.

But for the technical (design) point of view, i understand what you mean. You need to start from somewhere, and it is not easy (even impossible) to change this halfway the process of definition.

Send a couple of stand alone spiders into Melas Chasma and let them climb all the way up the plains as a scout ?

Marcel:

Thanks for your explanation about the Laser Induced Remote Sensing for Chemistry and Micro-Imaging.

I have forgotten that MSL needs to carry a laser for vaporizing a thin layer from the surface of a rock and analyzing the elemental composition of the underlying materials. It would then be able to collect and crush rock and soil samples and distribute them to on-board test chambers for chemical analysis. The spider would be a help to collect any materials. However, I seems that the Mars planners are thinking to collect them by the MSL self motion.

About taken a pictures of MSL on Mars is a very striking original idea!

However as Doug, a well known about the NASA burocracy and politics, has told us that in order to approve an additional kilogram to spacecraft will need to battle as many persons to convince the raising of the budget. As I have seen a picture about the sound investment for Mars exploration is that, a more heavier rover, the better is the investment in terms of kilograms per dollar. I think that MSL is about in the 2/3 of scale approaching to between US$ 10,000 to US$ 20,000 dollars per kilogram.

Let us suppose if the spider is free to go Mars, it would be a terrifying news! It will be the dearest and must be called: Inspirated!

Rodolfo