http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp...1112054/1/.html

***Edited***

apparently my source messed up and shared some news he had no right to share.
sorry for any inconvenience. Admin can you delete this post?

This EGU 2011 abstract seems to contradict reports I have seen that suggest that MetNet Precursor has been bumped off Phobos-Grunt. I sure hope it is correct.

Yeah, I'm confused by the status of MetNet as well. It's an exciting project but I wish they'd put out some clear statements about their plans for the next few years.

I don't think there will be any clear plans until they send the precursor.

"This EGU 2011 abstract seems to contradict reports ....."

I suspect this tells us nothing about the fate of METNET. It's a study of how timing Phobos transits could help locate the landing site. That idea goes back to Viking 1 and was planned for Beagle 2 as well. The statement about Phobos-Grunt is probably just a cut and paste job from older text, not reflecting the current status.

I'd like it to be correct as well... but I don't think it is.

Phil

I dropped an e-mail to a contact of mine within the project, so maybe this can be cleared up.

OK, my source tells me that MetNet will not fly on Phobos-Grunt due to problems still being worked out with the communications system. They are hoping for 2014 now.

http://www.russia-ic.com/news/show/11819/

the Lavochkin website has a short story (in Russian) on Fobos-Grunt making electrical and thermal-vacuum tests that also includes some nice pictures of the spacecraft (or an engineering model) complete with YH-1

An update on launch preparations at

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/phobos_grunt_2011.html

The issue of flight control software maturity keeps rearing its ugly head.
I believe a similar issue was found to be responsible for the demise of the Phobos 1 & 2 missions
back in 1989.

I'm not sure if this comes under the heading of ``politics', but, in my opinion,
it was a mistake to opt for such an ambitious mission profile. A reflight of the Phobos
missions with in situ surface science being the main objective would still yield fantastic results and, more importantly,
would have provided a lot more margin for testing. This, above all other factors, has proven the primary killer of planetary
probes.

Anyway, I hope they pull it off. Even getting to orbit around Mars and releasing the Yinghuo module
would show that the Russians are back in business. Of course, if they do land on the surface and all
those lovely instruments start to send back data..yum, yum..

Tolis.

I hope that translation difficulties are responsible for this FSW statement. I can buy off on uplinking patches; that happens all the time. But if they're talking about not flying with at least a full-up ver 1.0 of the FSW...boy oh boy, is that ever asking for trouble.

Got a chance to read a commentary by Frank Mooring, Jr. in the June 13 issue of Aviation Week. I don't subscribe, but my boss does, and get to read them.

It looks like there will be flybys of Deimos before Phobos-Grunt arrives at Phobos.

"After arriving in Mars orbit late next year, the mission will spend a few months studying the planet, Phobos and the smaller Deimos before closing on the larger moon and landing."

I was wondering about that and hoping for more info on Deimos. I wish the Russians, the Chinese and the Americans good luck with their martian projects. I seems that while other are worrying about the end of the world, we will be celebrating the opening of a whole new realm of exploration at Mars.

(The article does not seem to be on the web.)

The farside of Deimos is particularly underimaged, right? I wonder...

At LPSC last year I spoke to Chinese scientists working on their orbiter, and they were fully aware of the need for images of Deimos, and they were intending to take some. Their spacecraft will be deployed in a Deimos-crossing orbit and has no orbit-change capability of its own (I think). I didn't know Phobos-SRM would stay in that orbit long enough to also get images of Deimos but it makes sense that they would. There is a substantial chunk of Deimos, roughly longitudes 90 to 180 east, which has been seen only in one single image (a second one having been overexposed), so we don't even have stereo imaging of it. And many other areas with limited resolution or poor lighting.

Phil

Does anybody know of an updated diagram of Phobos-Grunt in landed configuration? All the pictures and diagrams I have show the old, domical design for the sample return capsule, which has apparently been changed to a cone whose pointy end sticks down into the spacecraft.

Even better would be a simulated view of the spacecraft sitting on Phobos....

it's not the same thing that you asked Emily, but there was a model of the launch configuration of F-G last month at the Paris air show in le Bourget
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9228922@N03/5.../in/photostream

There was just 15 mins ago a talk at the AOGS Conference in Taipei. The speaker Mikhail
Verigin? was not one of the authors (which may be a sign that the project leadership
is busy back in Russia). They showed config drawings such as Emily described.

Launch is planned 11.11.2011 (window Oct 25- Nov 20 : not sure what this means -
was that merely a statement of when the optimum date in the window is, or is it a
concession that they know they wont be ready at the start of the window?)

Plan to acquire 10-20 samples, each 0.5-1.5cm3. Intriguingly there is a 'mail tube'
a (presumably pneumatic) transfer system to insert the samples into the return
capsule (not sure if/how the samples are kept separate)

Mission has the usual Russian huge complement of instruments including DTA-GS-MS,
laser ablation and secondary ion mass specs, seismometer, GPR etc.

One neat feature is the plan to use mutual radio occultation of PhG and YH-1 to study
the midnight and noon ionosphere (which of course you can't do from Earth).

for UMSFers who can read Russian, here is the latest issue of Lavochkin's "Vestnik", with lots of technical papers on F-G

New placenames in the vicinity of the landing site:

http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/HotTopics/ind...for-Phobos.html

Phil

Found this picture in a newsletter about MAKS 2011:



The article also mentions the possible Europa lander mission which is called "Sokol La-Plas".

According to this RIA-Novosti release (in Russian), F-G will ship to Baykonur on 29 September

This article on the IAC speculates that a 2011 launch is uncertain (no source given):

I've not noticed this rumour anywhere else, and it seems hard to square with its reportedly being shipped to the launch site as reported in Emily's What's Up posting. Surely with only a month to go until the scheduled launch, those involved must know one way or the other by now?

Just MDU (main propulsion unit) was shipped to Baikonur, on Sept. 29, 2011:
http://www.roscosmos.ru/main.php?id=2&nid=17967

Other sections (cruise stage, return vehicle, truss & YH-1) will be delivered to cosmodrome on October 17th.
According to NK forum, the launch is planned at 20:16 UTC on November 7th.

F-G has been airlifted to Baykonur today by an Antonov 124 heavy lifter

meanwhile, this is one of the best images of the fully wrapped probe I have seen so far http://www.laspace.ru/images/FOBOSover.jpg

Whoo-hoo!!!

That's a freakin' BIG container; F-G is a hefty beast indeed!

Thought has just occurred to me. I wonder if they plan to (or even can) operate the lander, after the ascent stage has left on the flight back to Earth?

The (2nd)video hints at this... visuals alone...

I think I had read that they might operate it for up to a year.

Phil

If anyone wants to download those videos, the links are:

Work and testing on the actual spacecraft (about 17mins and 118mb)
http://www.federalspace.ru/download/video/...Fobos_Grunt.flv

Animation of the entire mission (about 11mins and 71mb)
http://www.federalspace.ru/download/video/..._26_FobosGr.flv

I have seen a similar figure. in "Robotic Exploration of the Solar System - part 3", we have written, concerning the original ion-propelled proposal:



in any case, that is the reason why the ascent stage will not be "launched" from the lander, but will be instead "lobbed" using springs, in order to avoid damaging instruments with the engine exhaust

F-G uncrated
http://www.federalspace.ru/main.php?id=2&nid=18079
including the first clear picture I have seen of YH-1

Tentatively 1 year. See table on page 9.
http://vestnik.laspace.ru/archives/download/1/2/

That's great news.

Neat video. I like how the sample return capsule doesn't even use a parachute, and just THUNKs into the ground at the end.

most of the NASA (and ESA, and the old Soviet 5M) proposals for MSR used no parachutes for reentry. it's a better and more reliable approach if you are concerned with back-contamination

Phobos-Soil launch will occur 2011-Nov-8 20:16:03.145 UTC from Baikonur.
Backup dates are Nov 9 & 10. If there is a delay, it is hoped we will be able to update things here.
http://phobos.cosmos.ru/index.php?id=312

Thank you, Gemin1.

I am growing increasingly excited about this mission.

GO FOBOS-GRUNT!!!!

Less than a week to launch.

http://www.federalspace.ru/main.php?id=2&nid=18190

http://i.imgur.com/HY1ay.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BGonc.jpg


ADMIN - Two embedded images changed to links. Too large to be put in-line in a post.

More information here:


http://ms2011.cosmos.ru/content/presentations


(as well as many other presentations about lunar missions etc.)

Phil

Wow that's a complex mission. I really hope this works.

I'm particularly excited about the long wave radar that can see rock layers down to 100 meters below the surface. It might shed some light on those grooves and how they formed!

http://www.federalspace.ru/main.php?id=2&nid=18209

Moving to launch complex 08:00 MSK Nov 06.

Phobos-Grunt and Yinghuo-1 Encapsulated for Voyage to Mars and Phobos

"...interplanetary station..." Love the sound of that!
The momentum is really building! Best of luck to the Phobos-Grunt team.

Is it me or, if I compare the Curiosity thread with this Fobos one, the Fobos-Grunt mission does not seem to be generating as much enthousiasm as the American rover? Is that because not many people believe that it will actually work or is it just because the Russians are a little more secretive than the Americans (even though they have done fantastic progress when it comes to public relations now: a lot of pics and videos can now be found on the Russian sites) and people are not aware of the complexity of the upcoming mission to Phobos?

Personally, I'm thrilled to bits with both missions (whatever is headed to Mars is good in my books!), even though it is indeed scary to read about Fobos-Grunt 90% untested and going up apparently with an unfinished software. It does get even scarier when you watch the way the Russian team is integrating the different parts of the mission together! It's a far cry from the JPL ways, to say the least.

Anyhow, I wish the very best of luck to the Russians starting on Tuesday on their first mission to Mars since 1996!It took a lot of perseverance and patience for these guys, working with ridiculous budgets; I believe the cost of Fobos- Grunt is... 64 million dollars?

I will be taking time off from work just to watch the Zenith taking off (by the way, does anybody know of a site where it will be shown live from Baikonur??), just as I will for the MSL on the 25th. What a wonderful month!!!
In a year from now, I want to sit in front of this computer and find new pictures from Phobos (with Mars huge in the Phobos skies), new pictures from Gale crater, and new pictures from the immortal Opportunity at Endeavour!

So, I keep my fingers crossed for this marvelous mission -and the Chinese one that goes with it- which is about to start on Tuesday! GO FOBOS-GRUNT!

I think it's mainly due to less information being provided for F-G (there's also the language barrier) as well as the fact that MSL is a huge rover meant to land on another planet. People I think identify with that more easily than to a lander on a huge space rock in vacuum.


That is not at all uncommon when it comes to planetary missions.

I agree with what Gordan said, but on top of that, you have to remember what a massive publicity machine NASA has -- they put everyone else to shame. And for a mission with this big a price tag there's a correspondingly large budget for media relations and public outreach. I just got their calendar for the week of launch and there are five press briefings scheduled already, plus there's the Tweetup, and that's just their final push; they've been working to generate buzz for months. They are really, really good at providing the media with exactly what they need, in a way that encourages lots of reporting, at times that make sense for the media to file stories. All the other space agencies should take notes.

I am amazed, though, by the frequency of updates and the number of images that are coming out of Russia on Phobos-Grunt. And they're getting a lot more news coverage in American media than most European launches do.

It's a hopeful sign. NASA took literally decades to learn PR; after all, there were complaints about interruption of "I Love Lucy" reruns on at least one of the last Apollo flights for live moon-walk coverage...it was a very, very painful lesson to learn for them.

Other space agencies will have to follow the same path.

After all, to those of us who are on UMSF, the need for coverage of these missions is intuitively obvious. For scientists on these missions, too often less so; they are far more focused on actually getting the job done (and it's usually a goal they've been working toward for many years)...there's no need to justify it in their minds, and understandably so.

I applaud FG's openness...it is unprecedented so far as I know for a Russian planetary mission. But if there are PR deficiencies, they are most likely attributable to growing pains...plus the fact that the overall media output of the US is undoubtedly much higher than that of most other regions of the world.

Still...speaking as a US citizen, the coverage of MSL is something you actually have to look for. It sure isn't on the nightly news, nor in the papers. And that's a crying shame, really.

But it is what it is.

Nothing worth doing is ever easy, in any way.

Go FG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For a long time, I didn't think they were really going to do it. Now I'm wondering if it'll actually work. I hope it does, but Russia hasn't had great success with Mars in the past. And, of course, Phobos isn't as exciting as Mars.

Of course, if it looks like they managed a successful sample return, then I think interest will go up fast.

Finally, someone needs to tell them that, to be a serious space probe, they have to have a "Where is Grunt" web page. :-)

--Greg

Just for fun, compare:

The American way of doing things:
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/video/index.cfm?id=973

with:
The Russian way of doing things:
http://www.federalspace.ru/main.php?id=376

(my favorite part is when the Russian techs are integrating Fobos-Grunt to the truss that will contain the Chinese spacecraft. And it seeems that nobody ever picks up the phone anymore in Russia! )


And about the PR, the Russians are much better at it now that ESA itself. ESA has a lot of efforts to do about that. Apart from us at UMSF, who has ever heard of Mars Express? And when you compare the speed we had pics coming from Spirit and have from Oppy, with the pics coming from Mars Express...!!!
It's like the Europeans are most secretive now than the Russians used to be!

They certainly have "different" clean room standards.