Wouldn't be cool a forum meeting? Somewhere in the world? I know.. it is not easy at all to organize well a so worldwide event and not everyone has time and money to spend. But why not just think about it?
I thought that firstly a continental meeting is easier to organize. I'm speaking about an european meeting because I live here but this could be good for other continents too!
IMHO should be a place with some symbolic mean for us.. I thought a place like the deep space network antennas in madrid. When? perhaps this spring or summer...
Other ideas? Criticisms? I know that problems are big and not everyone feel the need of a meeting but it would be great shake your hands guys! I don't write so much here but I check almost everyday this incredible forum!

Ale.

I totally and utterly agree, it'd be amazing to have a mini conference type thing even - central Europe would be perfect - perhaps we should do one of those 'where everyone is from' google map things ( I can't remember the URL but everyone can add their own pin to the map ) and we could schedule something for the middle of it.

BUT

I'd suggest that the best time to do it would be once MER is over ( a bad thought, but one that will come, one day ) so we can have a celebration of what they have achieved. When that will be - I dont know.

Similarly, it'd be cool to have something in the US for obvious reasons, perhaps over on the West Coast somewhere (like, say, Pasadena.... )

A long weekend - dinner on a Friday, Talks and events on Sat and Sun Am, and everyone home on Sunday afternoon

TECHNICALLY it's been done. Nico and I met up in Cambridge this Summer

But yes - it would be fantastic to sort something out, but it'd have to be perhaps 6 months in planning to try and get a venue, accom. and people to sort travel etc

IDEALLY, we would have it here in the UK, right here in Leicester at the National Space Centre

Doug

A similar idea was suggested some time ago and I remember that many of sponsorized it enthusiastically.
Personally, I would like very much to know and shake hands of you guys!
Doug, the target could be Sol1000 (autumn 2006), nominal end of extedended mission, otherwise would be too delayed.

I'd be happy to try and organise something - but realistically, I'd have to organise something that's in the UK. For me to try and arrange facilities, accomodation etc somewhere abroad would be a nightmare.

Would people want to sort their own accomodation out, or would something like last years BAA conference be good, where they had basic accom available as a bundle with entry to the conference.

Doug

Geez!...
Didn't know this was being talked here...
I've posted something somewhere...

Having a private exchange of messages with a member of this forum I was awared to the possibility of a meeting...
Oh...
How I would love to see us gathered around here:
http://www.abiyoyo.com/portugal/lisboa/belem/belem6.jpg

I won't mind organizing it...I'm experienced to stuff like this...
Lisboa | Sintra seems a pretty spot for everyone...Not expensive flights...great accomodations...
http://www.cm-sintra.pt/images/Bank/Seteais.jpg
(for real...)
I was thinking on something like Squyres, Formisano, Doug Ellison...
A weekend would be perfect!
Guests arriving Friday...
Meetings Saturday and Sunday
And on Sunday night | Monday morning...Home you lazy animals!
Dilo...I don't know if you were referring to my idea of mmeting at JPL for the 1000th Spirit's sol but that sounds very nice as well...
I was thinking on the portuguese meeting for march.
And I'm not in favour of a continental meeting...we're all in this together!

The answer may well be in the hands of Mr Stelios - EasyJet prices are sometimes so low as to be a trivial element of the whole deal...

...I still like the idea of a series of virtual meetings across the globe - all we need is broadband access, and we can do a series of talks, forums, and silly face-pulling! Perhaps a trial run on Yuri's Night? Or Spirit's Birthsol?

Any thoughts?

Bob Shaw

I did think that a web-cast based thing would be cool, BUT, you have the trouble of having basically - a crap picture at the end. Seing a lecture in person is cool - but seing one down a webcast could be a bit lame. I walk around, use a laser pointer, make jokes about people who come in late ( don't worry, you've not missed a THING ) and so on - done via a webcase it wouldnt be too good, and it would require quite a lot of expensive hardware that we'd have to beg, steel, borrow, hire.

BUT

We could do a DVD of the end result and get that out to anyone who couldnt make it.
Doug

You know in Belgium we got some good beer...

Though I wouldn't mind coming to Portugal either, for the weather alone. Airline tickets are cheap enough.
We could talk Mars drinking a cocktail on the beach.

No -I do not have a drinking problem.

However web-based is a great idea -especially the 'face-pulling' Bob

Nico

Certainly a great idea
I live in Belgium and both the examples given ( Great Britain & Spain ) would be O.K.
If we could do Madrid, we should try to arrange a tour of the facilities!

Let's organize something this summer


Post Scriptum: Most Belgians don't have a drinking problem as long as there's liquid available

I like the idea of a webcast / virtual meeting, and BTW Merry X-mas and a happy new roving 2006!

Do you mean Frappr? I've added myself... you have just to add your name and location (the nearest if it isn't in the database).

Yes, you do. Also, some really good restaurants. I happened to visit Antwerp several years ago, and stopped at a small mom-and-pop eatery. I had a simple beefsteak and potatoes dinner, but it was covered with a bernaise sauce that I could happily eat with every other morsel of food I consume for the rest of my life...

So, yeah, there would be worse places in the world to gather than Belgium.

-the other Doug

Exciting a group meeting, I'm in Germany so that's about the middle of Europe?
Should we start a topic on Who You are & where we are?

I totally agree on a meeting somewhere, perhaps several as offered above.

Here is a suggestion I was planning to post somewhere soon and just saw this thread.

Jim Bell has accepted my invitation to give a lecture in Fall 2006 in Princeton, NJ, USA to our astronomy club (AAAP). I am the program chair for the Amateur Astronomers Association of Princeton and we meet on the campus of Princeton University. http://www.princetonastronomy.org/

In addition to a seminar announcement, I have been thinking about possibly expanding this to include Forum participation.

There are several forum members in the local area

I will post more details after finalizing a date with him in a few months. At the meeting he will be autographing his new book "Postcards from Mars". So the date depends on the publishing schedule (ca. Sep to Dec 2006). Both he and Steve Squyres very much appreciate the fine efforts of the community represented here.

So perhaps this is something to keep in mind and those who are interested should please feel free to contact me.

ken

PS: there is a fantastic brewery in Princeton, appropriatly named "Triumph", where we can properly toast the martian twins and Ustrax's Portugese forefathers !!

I'm afraid I won't make it to the USA in fall but might travel to Washington D.C. area for the Mars Society meeting in early August.
As far as Europe is concerned I'll pack & travel anywhere ( weather permitting of course )
A get together during July or August would work best for most of us I presume as it's the holiday season

Once more; Madrid might be great but we should try to arrange a tour of the DNS facilities ( does anyone know if that's allowed ? )

Philip

Seems like the UMSF S1K conference has some support

Doug

Based on that standard, I believe we would be meeting in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean

I think Pasadena/Los Angeles would be just dandy, then we could arrange JPL guest speakers and tours of the facility, then perhaps a half-day drive to Malin Space Sciences in San Diego. Also within a few hours drive is Vandenberg AFB. The conference could be coordinated to view an upcoming launch. Barringer Crater in Arizona would be a full's day's bus ride.

Food for thought... a Barringer-Victoria comparison image:

http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...st=15&p=33033&#

--Bill

Thing is - Western USA is a BIG trip for anyone from Europe, and there is a large European contingent in this place. I'd rather do something that isnt 12hrs away and reachable with a cheap airline first time around, see how it goes - THEN - do something in the US perhaps the following year

Doug

And so it begins, the cliques start to form. Europeans vs Americans. Africans vs. South Americans. Antarcticans vs. Pacific Islanders. Alas, this was a nice happy place while it lasted.

I agree wholeheartedly with Doug's sentiments. While there are many, many places that would be wonderful for a first meeting, we should probably focus on a place that has many direct connections from one continent or another and that is relatively inexpensive. Better to make the first forum meeting convenient and accessible to many than fun for a few. If it is in Europe, Frankfurt enjoys a major hub airport, while being relatively less expensive than the "majors" of London and Paris. But locals may be able to find arrangements that alter that equation!

My 2 cents (yes I am a Yankee)



Phillip

I'll boil it down to the essentials. We're not having something that I cant guarentee being able to make it to. A 3 or 4 day break to Europe is something I can slip into whatever's going on at work. But a week+ in the US just isnt.

I agree - something in CA, or FL, or even Ithaca would be fan-bloody-TAstic, BUT, let's do something a little more modest first time around, see if it's a feasable exercise (such things cost quite a bit of money to do) , find out how to do this sort of thing...THEN...all book holidays for '07 (like, August '07 for the Phoenix launch ) and have something bigger in the US.

LA would be great (since I live here! ), but I travel to NJ quite frequently as well.

Interesting collision between American English and non-American English, there. In Britain, taking a week or two off from work and going somewhere is called "going on holiday" and the summer is the most popular time to do so -- hence, "holiday season."

In the U.S., the holiday season begins on Thanksgiving Day and lasts through New Year's Day. Ask *any* American when holiday season is, and that's what they'll tell you.

-the other Doug

What about Ascension Island, or what's that island in the middle of the Atlantic..midway for most members

As Doug said, the US would be fantastic, and I'd do it -but I'd probably regret the short stay I could afford in '06.
I have had a 3-week trip to the USA in mind for '07; visiting some national parks and Meteor Crater.

I'm able to meet up anywhere in Europe in 2006 though.

Nico

Doug's comments are sensible to gather somewhere in Europe with easy access for many members. and hey you really cant top locations like the tower of Belem !!

if you are in the area, All forum members and friends are absolutely welcome to attend the monthly Princeton, NJ astronomy lectures for the AAAP which I organize: http://www.princetonastronomy.org/

I've already had the pleasure to meet several members. Please drop me a line if nearby.

ken

I'm totally agree with you Doug!

I repost the link of the frappr map.
Tell us where are you from!

You're right Doug, A small thing to start & see what the response is ( Europe is fine and going to the USA is no problem as I have a visum ) ... but whatever meeting place we choose it should have some criteria!
Let's start a list:

Priority 1 = There should be a space-related theme in the area that we could visit ( e.g. DNS site in madrid-Spain or Jodrell Bank in GB )

Priority 2 = Accessibility ( details to be filled in )

Priority 3 = to be determined

curious to see what we could ' work out '

I wonder if there is a space related conference that would be of interest to UMSF members, to which a UMSF meeting could be made an "appendage" -- either the day before the conference began or the day after? That could solve many logistical problems and would satisfy the criterion of having something space related that the members could participate in/view with others.

I go to LPSC, AGU, and DPS regularly and I think that DPS is the best one to interest people in this community. And it's in my backyard next year.
http://www.aas.org/dps/meetings.html
(8-13 October 2006 in Pasadena, California)
Wherever the "big meeting" under discussion here ends up taking place, I hope at least a small group of UMSF members will attend DPS -- we can have a party at The Society's house!

--Emily

Another possibility...

I know that the Planetary Society has meetings (almost annually) open to the general membership, that coincide with big space events, like the landing of Spirit two years ago. There may well be another planned for the time of the Phoenix lander touchdown. If so, I'm sure Emily could fill us in on any details as they become available. A meeting of the Planetary Society could be followed (or preceded) by a smaller gathering of UMSF folks. That would make another good option for a future US gathering.

David

But that is only in 2008...
I liked Emily's idea, first because there is time to manage the details, second, because we would have, besides the UMSF meeting, extra reasons to be there, third, the location...I don't know what my fellow Europeans think about it, but I would like to land and smell the new world...

I'm not going to have the very first UMSF conference be something I can't be sure of getting to - the US for the first one is just a bit too much commitment in terms of travel and finance. Lets do something modest, proof-of-concept like in the EU in '06 first, see if the whole thing works.

Europe for the first gig, then the US as a follow up in '07 / '08 - and a tie in with TPS would be a very cunning idea Doug has spoken.

It might make sense to have it near ESOC (can you do visits there?) , Madrid or something else big and space-like to have a 'day 3' trip out. The primary issue is finding an appropriate venue. That's something I can do here in the UK, but not something that's too easy - so suggestions would be welcome, then we have to figure out the £/$ of the whole thing.

Doug

That is a good idea, Doug. This isn't clique-y, this isn't being regional, this is simply realistic. We are amateurs not on a expense account and meetings have to be within a budget. We can have "local" meetings and work up something larger.

--Bill

BINGO.

I'd LOVE a huge, 500 delegate, Pasadena based gig with Steve, Jim, Tim Parker, Mike Malin, etc etc - but there's no point aiming that high first time around. Let's do something modest, realistic.

For ultimate modesty, I'd have it here in Leicester - and people could visit the National Space Centre ( www.spacecentre.co.uk ) - but that's a bit to "my back yard" perhaps.

Central Europe would make a lot of sense, somewhere where Easyjet and Ryanair fly to/from is a must as that makes it open to everybody.

Doug

Curious...I was looking for ESOC visits while you were editing...

Here it is:

'Can I visit ESOC?

ESOC can be visited via the Darmstadt Tourist Office “ProRegio” on Monday mornings, Wednesday afternoons and Friday afternoons. Duration of a tour is 90 minutes and includes a 10-minute film as well as a visit to the main control room, dedicated control rooms and some satellite models. A group applying for a tour should consist of 15 to 25 people. All tours are free-of-charge, information material will be provided at the end of each tour. Contact : ProRegio Darmstadt, Mrs. Andrea Rohrmann, touristikservice@proregio-darmstadt.de. Tel: +49 6151 9515011'

And DSN:

MDSCC


Carretera de Colmenar del Arroyo a Robledo de Chavela M-531 Km.7
28290 Robledo de Chavela (Madrid) España
Tel - +34-91.867.70.00
Fax - +34-91.867.71.85


Visitors Center

At the entry of the MDSCC
Timetable:
Tuesday to Friday: 10:00AM to 02:30PM (for groups)
Weekends: de 10:00AM a 03:00PM
Tel - +34-91.867.73.21

http://www.mdscc.org/assets/images/MAPA_CARRETERAS.jpg

Started a list with possible sites... Please add on
( Preferably with coordinates so we can check the site in Google Earth ! )

Possible sites in Europe:

BELGIUM
Redu Antenna site: Ardennes

FRANCE
Air & Space museum: Paris

GERMANY
ESA ESOC: Köln

GREAT BRITAIN
Nuffield Radio Astronomy Lab site - Jodrell Bank
( 53° 14’ 11 North – 2° 18’ 31” West )
Leicester Space Center

ITALY
ESA ESRIN: Frascati Roma

NETHERLANDS
ESA ESTEC: Noordwijk
( 52° 13’ 01” North – 4° 25’ 03” East )

SPAIN
Cebreros Antenna site: Avilla
Castillo Antenna site: Villafranca – Madrid

*Canary Islands: Antenna sites + Astronomy sites

to be completed... ... ...
Our US friends can do the same ...

Alas, Doug, your point about the US being too costly, in terms of time and budget, for you Europeans is the same issue I have with a European meeting. And your comments about how a European meeting is so much more reasonable are *only* reasonable for, er... you Europeans.

So, I think it's incumbent upon us Americans to come up with a *really* cool site on this side of the pond for our *own* meeting, so that all of you Europeans can sit back and slobber with envy, and complain about how unfair it is that we can go and y'all can't afford it...



-the other Doug

I know I know I know I know but the first conference IS going to be in Europe. End of story. You dont need to come up with a cool site, you already have ALL the cool sites basically. But the first one IS going to be in Europe, because I'm not going to have an UMSF conference happen that I cant get to, and I can't be sure that I'll be able to get to the US in '06. Simple as that.

The US already has TPS meetings, MOST of the DPS conferences etc etc etc - you get all the good stuff. Europe has next to nothing.

Hell, come '07, we'll know what we're doing and it'll be a better conference for having had a warm up over here 12 months earlier. If it turns into something annual, then we can hop, year by year, across the pond and back to keep it fair for everyone. But it's going to START here.

Doug

Please see my small thread above Doug (USA)...
You could do the same for the good old USA ...

Meanwhile, there're still some issues, such as affordability, both in time & money ... and then we can see who's planning to come, I guess if we can manage to get a dozen people together it will be a success!

by all means come up with US venues, but it'll be for '07, not '06. Debate it all you want, but that's the call I have made. Call it selfish, call it inverse nimby, but if we're going to have an UMSF conference, then I'm sure as hell going to be at the first one

the US can have the second one, and our American members can go to the cool stuff that the US already has

Doug

Well...Maybe in Azores...
It's halfway for everyone and, officialy is European ground...
NO DOUG DON'T BEAT ME, NO! NOOO! AARGHHH!!!

Tenerife would be cool, Mt Teide is an awesome visit, but part of me thinks that ESOC or Madrid would be a really really worthwhile thing to try and sort out.

Doug

Do we have some Spanish readers here?
I can't find the ESA ground stations in Google Earth ( maybe 1 is in the area which has lesser resolution images )...
Anyway, does someone has coordinates for:
1. Villafranca del Castillo ( 30 kilometers West of Madrid )
2. Cebreros ( 90 kilometers West of Madrid )

Seriously now...Azores isn't a complete silly idea...
Halfway for almost everyone, a motiv of interest...well it is not like Cape Canaveral on launching day but...

http://www.esa.int/esaHS/SEMXN8638FE_iss_1.html#subhead3

The people are warming and welcoming and the island is really beautiful...

http://www.ana-aeroportos.pt/ANAIngles/San...s+a+Visitar.htm

Well...one more place to the bonfire...

Instead o Villafranca del Castillo try Villanueva de la Cañada and the closest to Cebreros is Ávila

Chill, Doug, chill... s'okay. For the foreseeable future, I'll be working 60 hours a week, without a management crew that can cover any vacation time, and *still* not making enough money to afford much more than a visit to Duluth.

I was just being a wise-ass, OK? I didn't seriously mean to imply that you're being unfair. I *do* understand.

-the other Doug

It would be very nice for everybody have two very important things: have plenty money to travel and have a plenty time in order to enjoy the meeting. I agree that it would be easier and cheaper to take a meeting by turn where there are the majority of members by starting first to Europe where Doug lives...

Rodolfo

Hey! That's my job!

I thought it was my job to be the wise ass


Doug