) Who will start us off with a detailed description of what we see before us TODAY February 5, 2006 - Super Sunday.(I'll be running from game to Exploratorium all afternoon!
Full Version: Home, Sweet Home
Hope no one minds, but I felt we have to have a new topic, right from the start, as a compendium of all the Factual Observations on this incredible structure...this Mother Ship from another world...this...(who said Burgess Shale? I laughed at that at the time. ) Who will start us off with a detailed description of what we see before us TODAY February 5, 2006 - Super Sunday.
(I'll be running from game to Exploratorium all afternoon!
) Who will start us off with a detailed description of what we see before us TODAY February 5, 2006 - Super Sunday.(I'll be running from game to Exploratorium all afternoon!
O.K. We're there, and we might as well start at the bottom and work up.
I've cropped an area of slabs at the base of the section and assigned working names so we can easily refer to them. So,
can some of the field geologists give the non-geos among us a description of the types they see and list things they could be?
Click to view attachment
For example, to my untutored eye, the rocks El over to Ward represent a group of similar layers. Are they different in some significant way from the slabs Darby and Bernard just above? Is the upper layer likely to be of different origin or makeup? Obviously we don't have spectrometry now, so this is a visual-only exercise. Have we seen anything even remotely related to HP in Gusev so far?
C'mon, rockhounds! We're all ears!
P.S. Steelers by 3
I've cropped an area of slabs at the base of the section and assigned working names so we can easily refer to them. So,
can some of the field geologists give the non-geos among us a description of the types they see and list things they could be?
Click to view attachment
For example, to my untutored eye, the rocks El over to Ward represent a group of similar layers. Are they different in some significant way from the slabs Darby and Bernard just above? Is the upper layer likely to be of different origin or makeup? Obviously we don't have spectrometry now, so this is a visual-only exercise. Have we seen anything even remotely related to HP in Gusev so far?
C'mon, rockhounds! We're all ears!
P.S. Steelers by 3
Ok, the 'Going to Home Plate' thread is getting a bit long for me, so I thought I start a new topic now that we are 'there'.
I'm thinking that the MER team may already be contemplating ways to either ride out winter at HP/PM or how to at least extend their stay further into winter (perhaps 'Island hopping' thru north-facing slopes between HP and McCool Hill when they do leave). If they decide to stay, they might do the top of HP early on, then more of the north-facing perimeter deeper in the winter, then hop around to the north side of PM?
I'm thinking that the MER team may already be contemplating ways to either ride out winter at HP/PM or how to at least extend their stay further into winter (perhaps 'Island hopping' thru north-facing slopes between HP and McCool Hill when they do leave). If they decide to stay, they might do the top of HP early on, then more of the north-facing perimeter deeper in the winter, then hop around to the north side of PM?
Oops, sorry, didn't spot that one!
Check out the view out "to sea", as it were, from our position next to Home Plate. Yes, I know, I shouldn't say "out to sea" because the Martian Tricorder crowd will take me seriously, but I just can't help myself, the view is so evocative of a bay or something 
The view is due West by the way, 90 degrees wide.
Edit: Oops, I guess we should go with the other thread, although I like the title of this one better.
The view is due West by the way, 90 degrees wide.Edit: Oops, I guess we should go with the other thread, although I like the title of this one better.
And the atmosphere is clearing a bit, I think!
The granular lower level intrigues me. Could be an ashfall layer, or we could be seeing grain size differences based on water velocity.
To go way, way out on a limb, there seems to be some periodicity within the coarse layer. Perhaps a series of flooding events? Above it is the finer-grained material...perhaps lacrustine sediments overlaying the initial coarse material following the water filling the basin?
To go way, way out on a limb, there seems to be some periodicity within the coarse layer. Perhaps a series of flooding events? Above it is the finer-grained material...perhaps lacrustine sediments overlaying the initial coarse material following the water filling the basin?
QUOTE (gpurcell @ Feb 6 2006, 09:44 AM)
The granular lower level intrigues me. Could be an ashfall layer, or we could be seeing grain size differences based on water velocity.
To go way, way out on a limb, there seems to be some periodicity within the coarse layer. Perhaps a series of flooding events? Above it is the finer-grained material...perhaps lacrustine sediments overlaying the initial coarse material following the water filling the basin?
To go way, way out on a limb, there seems to be some periodicity within the coarse layer. Perhaps a series of flooding events? Above it is the finer-grained material...perhaps lacrustine sediments overlaying the initial coarse material following the water filling the basin?
Thanx. I assume the entire Steelers backfield (sorry about the mixing of sports - Is this, by the way, the outcrop dubbed Gibson ?), is float that has fallen from above, so the El - Ward line is the base of this section. From this distance (When is Explo./JPL going to release today's photos??) the granular layer seems to have shadowed interstices (sorry I don't speak good Geo ). Would that favor a 'scoriaceous' kind of ashfall over a lacustrine gravel bed?
Can we put any time constraints on this section? Is it less than a million years of accumulation, or given the nature of Mars could it be almost any duration?
(Insert emoticon for sitting-at-your-feet-with-rapt-attention)
Just off the top of my head: the reason Spirit needs to be on a north-facing slope in Winter is that the Sun moves into the northern sky and the solar panels need to be tilted northward to keep them aligned with the Sun. FWIW, at 14 degrees south latitude the Sun will be no higher than 53* above the northern horizon.
But since the Sun moves NorthEast to due North to NorthWest, it the panels need to be oriented NE in the morning, N at noon and NW in the afternoon, so it seems that it could add a northwest-biased tilt in the afternoon for optimum solar output. That NW slope would be easily obtainable on the NW slope of McCool Hill, which could expand the envelope of possible paths.
It will be interesting to see how the mission planners do this Winter.
--Bill
But since the Sun moves NorthEast to due North to NorthWest, it the panels need to be oriented NE in the morning, N at noon and NW in the afternoon, so it seems that it could add a northwest-biased tilt in the afternoon for optimum solar output. That NW slope would be easily obtainable on the NW slope of McCool Hill, which could expand the envelope of possible paths.
It will be interesting to see how the mission planners do this Winter.
--Bill
I hope we will have some time also to climb on top of Home Plate.Here are the names I gave to its 3 major albedo structures seen from orbit : a tribute much deserved to the 3 Home Plate discoverers : Dr. Nathalie Cabrol and Dr. Edmond Grin, not forgetting Gilles Dawidowicz, their intern student, who pintpointed Home Plate's interest from the very beginning ! Links :
http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...indpost&p=38492
http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...indpost&p=38541
hand-colorized Sol 744 "Home Plate" panorama and Sol 743 navcam "El-Dorado Looking Back" Navcam-Panorama:
(as always, those colors only reflect my subjective vision of the otherwise b/w landscape and may be way off the "true" spectrum ...
(as always, those colors only reflect my subjective vision of the otherwise b/w landscape and may be way off the "true" spectrum ...
QUOTE (Nirgal @ Feb 6 2006, 10:46 PM)
hand-colorized Sol 744 "Home Plate" panorama and Sol 743 navcam "El-Dorado Looking Back" Navcam-Panorama:
Bernhard,
these are fantastic and puts it all in perspective that HP has suffered an extremely violent event(s). And the layering on the right will I hope be an early target before climbing up as well as the richly layered areas and tire like tracks towards the left.
this is a dream come true for all. Not surprisingly, SS sure was fast this time with an update
ken
QUOTE (vikingmars @ Feb 6 2006, 09:21 PM)
I hope we will have some time also to climb on top of Home Plate.Here are the names I gave to its 3 major albedo structures seen from orbit : a tribute much deserved to the 3 Home Plate discoverers : Dr. Nathalie Cabrol and Dr. Edmond Grin, not forgetting Gilles Dawidowicz, their intern student, who pintpointed Home Plate's interest from the very beginning ! Links :
Olivier
yeah I cant imagine the MER team not climbing on top unless there is no safe path
and thanks for the backgroud on HP discoverers. I had missed that earlier and just checked out those illuminating presentations
ken
QUOTE (mars loon @ Feb 6 2006, 11:04 PM)
Bernhard,
these are fantastic and puts it all in perspective that HP has suffered an extremely violent event(s)....
ken
these are fantastic and puts it all in perspective that HP has suffered an extremely violent event(s)....
ken
Ken,
The shards of shattered rock need not indicate extremely violent event(s). They look just like the kind of fragments one finds at the foot of mesas in Northern Arizona. The (admittedly uniformitarian) consensus is that those are the result of slow processes in which pieces of rock broke off, fell, shattered, and tumbled down the slope.
I suspect similar processes took place at Home Plate.
Steve
I look forward in hearing from JPL's activity plan around HP. Will Spirit circle around it before climbing into HP. I think that the most important step at HP is to circle around it due two strong reasons:
1) A scientific method that starts from outside into inside. This method help to understand better the nature of HP first by visting the outside that might influence it.
2) Now it is spring, there is more light now than tomorrow, so Spirit must take the advantage of it in the early to spend more solar energy to circle around HP before climbing into HP.
3) You name it if you have a good guess about the next Spirit move !!!
Rodolfo
1) A scientific method that starts from outside into inside. This method help to understand better the nature of HP first by visting the outside that might influence it.
2) Now it is spring, there is more light now than tomorrow, so Spirit must take the advantage of it in the early to spend more solar energy to circle around HP before climbing into HP.
3) You name it if you have a good guess about the next Spirit move !!!
Rodolfo
They need to put the MI on the rock in the top left of this image
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all...0P2363R1M1.HTML
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all...0P2363R1M1.HTML
QUOTE
The shards of shattered rock need not indicate extremely violent event(s). They look just like the kind of fragments one finds...
The fragments look like the rock was formed by cyclic deposition events, and have a shattered appearance because of extreme diurnal thermal cycling. I'm interested in seeing the "basement' unit below this layered unit. I imagine that an impact ought to show shattercones (or other signs).
This looks like a weathered outcrop.
--Bill
QUOTE (Sunspot @ Feb 6 2006, 08:52 PM)
They need to put the MI on the rock in the top left of this image
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all...0P2363R1M1.HTML
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all...0P2363R1M1.HTML
Do MI on the laminated fallen rock? It looks it was detached from the rim of HP and later it was eroded by the aeolian process, does it not?
Rodolfo
Yep...thats the one. Also Spirit would be in a great spot for some closeup pancams of the rest of the layered outcrop.
QUOTE (Sunspot @ Feb 6 2006, 04:05 PM)
Yep...thats the one. Also Spirit would be in a great spot for some closeup pancams of the rest of the layered outcrop.
Abso-freakin'-lutely! So where are today's photos at Exploratorium? Don't they know we're dyin' out here waiting for some close-ups? I've been at this keyboard so long I see 164 keys! What's going on? We're hooked now; they can't cut us off cold turkey!
(I don't know what this emoticon means, but it's indicative of my mental state.)
QUOTE (Sunspot @ Feb 6 2006, 08:52 PM)
They need to put the MI on the rock in the top left of this image
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all...0P2363R1M1.HTML
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all...0P2363R1M1.HTML
You mean the piece of broken pottery?
That "laminated fallen rock" almost looks like a shard of pottery in an archaeological dig.
QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Feb 6 2006, 03:55 PM)
The fragments look like the rock was formed by cyclic deposition events, and have a shattered appearance because of extreme diurnal thermal cycling. I'm interested in seeing the "basement' unit below this layered unit. I imagine that an impact ought to show shattercones (or other signs).
This looks like a weathered outcrop.
--Bill
This looks like a weathered outcrop.
--Bill
Yes, definitely. I don't see it on this side. I think we must get a look at the west side.
QUOTE (ddeerrff @ Feb 6 2006, 04:59 PM)
You mean the piece of broken pottery?
No, he means the old porcelein commode.
...gasp....getting delirious...must rest soon...rest...yeeeesss
Hi all,
there was recently another thread Home Plate Speculations, Get it in now, before we know the truth! with a friendly competition about trying to understand Homeplate before we actually see and analyse it.
It seems that I was a bit close to what we see: (predicting a three-layered system)
and that Homeplate would be the same thing than a much larger similar structure, that of Pollack crater
there was recently another thread Home Plate Speculations, Get it in now, before we know the truth! with a friendly competition about trying to understand Homeplate before we actually see and analyse it.
It seems that I was a bit close to what we see: (predicting a three-layered system)
QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Feb 5 2006, 11:19 AM)
The latest scenario I suggest, after closest view of sol 742:
Sometimes between the formation of Gussev and the final filling by mudflow, there was a lake (temporary, or permanent). The surface of this lake was about the level of Homeplate, or a little above, so that Husband hills were not covered. Its open surface lasted only some days, and after the surface frozen, and eventually all the water froze to the core in some months or years.
This water was charged with a variety of salts, and these salts were deposited, but very unevenly, from the presence of ice, after one or several of the following processes:
-waves projected water on mounds, where it evaporated very quickly, lefting the salts on priviledged patches. (This is sometimes visible on earth)
-there were faults in the ice cover, allowing strong evaporation of water in some very restricted places.
-There was a continuous ice cover, see the lake froze into its whole depth. But salts were contentred in tiny patches of very salty brines, which can exist at very low temperatures (-50°C for calcium chloride). When ice sublimated, it left the solid salt patches to end drying. Homeplate could be one of these patches. Other were observed all around.
So if this model is true, it predicts that Homeplate and similar smaller patches are just salts. Eventually we may find, from top to bottom:
-basaltic blocks and sands, projected here by more recent impacts
-most soluble salts, such as sodium and calcium chlorides
-less soluble salts, such as jarosite and sulphates
-eventually an iron oxyd layer somewhere in between
-at bottom a sandstone of basaltic sand cemented with sulphates or carbonates (eventually limestone). This layer would be the dark rocky outcrop which seems to encircle Homeplate.
-a "discordance" and under ordinary soil (same as elsewhere around).
...
Sometimes between the formation of Gussev and the final filling by mudflow, there was a lake (temporary, or permanent). The surface of this lake was about the level of Homeplate, or a little above, so that Husband hills were not covered. Its open surface lasted only some days, and after the surface frozen, and eventually all the water froze to the core in some months or years.
This water was charged with a variety of salts, and these salts were deposited, but very unevenly, from the presence of ice, after one or several of the following processes:
-waves projected water on mounds, where it evaporated very quickly, lefting the salts on priviledged patches. (This is sometimes visible on earth)
-there were faults in the ice cover, allowing strong evaporation of water in some very restricted places.
-There was a continuous ice cover, see the lake froze into its whole depth. But salts were contentred in tiny patches of very salty brines, which can exist at very low temperatures (-50°C for calcium chloride). When ice sublimated, it left the solid salt patches to end drying. Homeplate could be one of these patches. Other were observed all around.
So if this model is true, it predicts that Homeplate and similar smaller patches are just salts. Eventually we may find, from top to bottom:
-basaltic blocks and sands, projected here by more recent impacts
-most soluble salts, such as sodium and calcium chlorides
-less soluble salts, such as jarosite and sulphates
-eventually an iron oxyd layer somewhere in between
-at bottom a sandstone of basaltic sand cemented with sulphates or carbonates (eventually limestone). This layer would be the dark rocky outcrop which seems to encircle Homeplate.
-a "discordance" and under ordinary soil (same as elsewhere around).
...
and that Homeplate would be the same thing than a much larger similar structure, that of Pollack crater
Richard--
I'm witholding judgement until we know more about the lithologies...
--Bill
I'm witholding judgement until we know more about the lithologies...
--Bill
Does this image show Bonneville in the upper left?
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/na...00P1785L0M1.JPG
If so, it is a very nice view of the route between Bonneville and West Spur.
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/na...00P1785L0M1.JPG
If so, it is a very nice view of the route between Bonneville and West Spur.
I mean no, Bonneville is rather behind the rocky hill in the upper right. The crater (upper left) is exactly to the west.
QUOTE (mhoward @ Feb 6 2006, 07:15 PM)
although I like the title of this one better.
Ditto.
A run, a short followup bump, set the wheels, and they are clearly in position to do IDD work (assuming the wheels are stable now). Talk about precision driving!
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/fo...38P1201L0M1.JPG
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/fo...55P1214L0M1.JPG
Do you want your laminations thick or thin?
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/na...55P0685L0M1.JPG
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/fo...38P1201L0M1.JPG
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/fo...55P1214L0M1.JPG
Do you want your laminations thick or thin?
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/na...55P0685L0M1.JPG
I just regained my power of speech and I'm again speechless. The view is great, and that was some fancy driving.
I'll take my laminations any way I can get them...
--Bill
I'll take my laminations any way I can get them...
--Bill
QUOTE (Burmese @ Feb 7 2006, 08:00 PM)
Is it me or does it look nice and smooth up top? thought it would be "bumpier"..easy riding when they get up top to scoot around to other outcrops on HP once they leave the "wall"..which probably won't be for a while..
This is the view looking 45 degrees down directly in front of Spirit:
So as near as I can tell, we must be parked at about a 45 degree angle. Really amazing driving. Edit: Okay, maybe more like 30 or 35.
Unbelievable.
Edit: Also near as I can tell, we are facing approximately southeast So the solar panels are pointed roughly northwest.
So as near as I can tell, we must be parked at about a 45 degree angle. Really amazing driving. Edit: Okay, maybe more like 30 or 35.
Unbelievable.
Edit: Also near as I can tell, we are facing approximately southeast So the solar panels are pointed roughly northwest.
...best parking job I've seen since Elwood swung the Bluesmobile into that spot outside of Chez Paul.
The last pictures show so many layers in the Plate - that wasn't an impact event, was it.
If it was not a single event that caused the layers then I would think Home Plate is the rest of a filled crater as "the other" Doug has mentioned earlier - or maybe a filled little extinct volcano. That scenario would open a very big book of ancient time - like a tree trunk.
If it was not a single event that caused the layers then I would think Home Plate is the rest of a filled crater as "the other" Doug has mentioned earlier - or maybe a filled little extinct volcano. That scenario would open a very big book of ancient time - like a tree trunk.
Really sweet!
It seems drivers are very, very aggressive: almost 30deg inclination from sideview!
They are climbing to the top, apparently (you can see the plateau now)...
It seems drivers are very, very aggressive: almost 30deg inclination from sideview!
They are climbing to the top, apparently (you can see the plateau now)...
Here's a wide view and a "top" view.
QUOTE (dilo @ Feb 7 2006, 10:20 AM)
Really sweet!
It seems drivers are very, very aggressive: almost 30deg inclination from sideview!
They are climbing to the top, apparently (you can see the plateau now)...
It seems drivers are very, very aggressive: almost 30deg inclination from sideview!
They are climbing to the top, apparently (you can see the plateau now)...
Is that possible here, Dilo? What angle of slope is this face?
Here is the view of Homeplate on Sol 744.
Taken with the R0 navcam.
jvandriel
Taken with the R0 navcam.
jvandriel
and here Spirit looking back on Sol 745.
Taken with the L0 navcam.
jvandriel
Taken with the L0 navcam.
jvandriel
Good grief - imagine what the Pancams will look like.
QUOTE (mhoward @ Feb 7 2006, 10:41 PM)
Good grief - imagine what the Pancams will look like.
latest L7-pancam (synthetic colors)
QUOTE (Shaka @ Feb 7 2006, 08:35 PM)
Is that possible here, Dilo? What angle of slope is this face?Look at this if you don't believe me!
And this is the straightened side view:
Nice, Nirgal! Fast work, too; I'm pretty sure those frame just came down within the last couple hours.
Boy, AutoStitch gets the jaggies with those heavily tilted frames as bad as MMB does. Funny.
Boy, AutoStitch gets the jaggies with those heavily tilted frames as bad as MMB does. Funny.
They wont climb to the top here ( infact, they'd have no chance ) - but they're in a 'Hillary' type position- parked up a bit of a slope probably as far as the rover will go - wheel wiggle to settle it - and IDD away
Doug
Doug
QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Feb 7 2006, 10:12 AM)
Richard--
I'm witholding judgement until we know more about the lithologies...
--Bill
I'm witholding judgement until we know more about the lithologies...
--Bill
You are right
Looks like a good angle to catch some rays and recharge! - Ahhhhh!
A little reminiscent of burns cliff.
Nice work!
Nick
A little reminiscent of burns cliff.
Nice work!
Nick
Here is the view from Sol 744 into the drive direction.
Taken with the L7 pancam.
jvandriel
Taken with the L7 pancam.
jvandriel
QUOTE (dilo @ Feb 7 2006, 08:54 PM)
If you notice a strange thing, which is visible on le big dark loose rock on the left, and also on other places more to the left: it is as if spherical volumes of strata were missing. Even if you look well at the left, a spherical volume is missing, and the strata are folded, as if they had formed around a spherical object. I am not sure, but it looks that these layers contained something like giant blueberries, but which are no more in place today, because they were eliminated by erosion or something else.
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