DFinfrock
Apr 14 2006, 02:00 AM
Since Spirit is no longer "Running for the Hills" and it appears that she will be staying at Low Ridge Haven for the next eight months or so, it seems like a good time to start a new topic.
I thought we could start with the great panorama stitched by jvandriel, and then altered by Tesheiner. We are going to become very familiar with this view in the coming months.
David
Click to view attachment (286k)
john_s
Apr 14 2006, 04:34 PM
I'm just bumping this thread because I agree that it's time for a new topic devoted to Spirit's new home. Post here, folks!
alan
Apr 14 2006, 05:12 PM
A quick measurement of the thin layer
Click to view attachment
ElkGroveDan
Apr 14 2006, 05:58 PM
Are you certain about that 16cm measurement? I get 6.2992126 inches.
(Just doing my part to bump the new thread too.)
RNeuhaus
Apr 14 2006, 08:02 PM
QUOTE (alan @ Apr 14 2006, 12:12 PM)
A quick measurement of the thin layer
Click to view attachmentSo fragil that some gushing wind may break it off. I have also measured it but I got different result. According to GIMP tool, the given distance is 130.9 pixels. Then, the picture has 1024x1024 pixels (this is of 1 Megapixels) and its proportion is 2.8346 has pixels/mm (36.124 cms width and 36.124 height). Then the size of "flying stone" is 46.18 mm (130.9/2.8346). How do you get to measure it as 160 mm long?
Changing the topic, around the Low Ridge Heaven has many strange and rugged stones (ones which has undergone a process of great temperature that has produced bubbles of gas) that might be of volcanic or impact origns. So Spirit with its limited permissible autonomy can visit some stones facing to the northern side.
One of interesting lava rocks
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/pa...00P2535R1M1.JPGRodolfo
Phil Stooke
Apr 14 2006, 09:05 PM
Here's a polar view of The Low Ridge Haven (Heaven's a slightly different place, Rodolfo, so they tell me).
It is from jvandriel's pan in the previous thread.
Phil
Click to view attachment
RNeuhaus
Apr 15 2006, 12:52 AM
Interesting picture. The north side is found the Columbia Hill? On that view to North, the Home Plate is found. Now, the south side has more naked stones than anywhere from Low Ridge Heaven. I deduct that the prominent wind comes from between southwest-south direction. The East side is seen the McCool Hill. The Spirit was trying to climb toward west. On around west-south side, where there is a small cone, is a famous cut bright cone, Pitcher Mound.
I suspect that the climbing direction of Spirit will not meet soft sand unless that westward surface, there is a thin layer of sand and below of this might be a outcrop. Thus, Spirit will be able to climb even further to catch a better wind.
Rodolfo
Bill Harris
Apr 15 2006, 01:36 AM
Whew, I'm glad that she made it to safe Winter Quarters.
I've been off all week, went to St Louis Missouri for a meeting. I was sans a public 'puter and didn't get a chance to check in.
--Bill
aldo12xu
Apr 15 2006, 01:52 AM
Cool image, Phil. Aesthetically and science wise. The Low Ridge layering seems to strike east-west below the rover and then changing to a more northeasterly strike. But the rocks exposed near Mitchelltree (which should be on strike) seem to have curved formed. Or is this an optical effect created by the polar projection? I'll try to sketch some images after the long weekend to clarify what I mean.
Here's a view of the Mitchelltree curvilinear bedding I was referring to, Navcam from sol 806.
By the way, is there any chance Spirit would be able to make a quick run to the north facing slopes of Pitcher's Mound during the winter months?
RNeuhaus
Apr 15 2006, 02:19 AM
Pitcher's Mound is on the west side of Spirit, its official name is Von Braun (not sure). The distance from its position to Von Braun is around 129 meters in a straight line. That is a tough distance for 5 tired wheels and the rover drivers must select the best route with thiner sand surface and estimate carefully about the power required to reach on PM before it is dead. It would be a very dramatic story.
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/tm-...from_sol594.jpgRodolfo
Shaka
Apr 15 2006, 03:29 AM
129 meters is almost certainly too wide a gulf to 'sprint' across safely, but the point is that Low Ridge extends for some distance to the west from Spirit's present location. If we can map a sequence of safe north-sloping oases along the ridge, we might be able to narrow that gap significantly over the coming months. We might then be able to see enough isolated knolls across the gap to make the trip south feasible. Assuming we still have a significant interest in Von Braun, we might be prepared to take the risk. From there, in spring we would have a choice of directions, to south Home Plate or the Promised Land.
We need an energy map of Low Ridge first.
RNeuhaus
Apr 15 2006, 02:23 PM
QUOTE (Shaka @ Apr 14 2006, 10:29 PM)
If we can map a sequence of safe north-sloping oases along the ridge, we might be able to narrow that gap significantly over the coming months. We might then be able to see enough isolated knolls across the gap to make the trip south feasible.
Good idea, it is doable as the best with small and firm steps trying to reach the VB. The wildest idea is to try to climb a rock on the way by one of the wheels to get a correct north face tilt.
Rodolfo
BrianL
Apr 15 2006, 03:18 PM
QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Apr 14 2006, 07:36 PM)
Whew, I'm glad that she made it to safe Winter Quarters.
Daddy, I'm bored. There's nothing to do here. When do we get to go? Can we go now? I'm booooored. Dad-deeee....
OK, maybe I get blase easily about seeing activities from the surface of another planet, but do the rest of you think you can get through this Martian winter without these thoughts creeping into your head? At least during the first winter, they were still moving around from place to place on a large hillside. There's really no place to go now safely, is there?
I fear following Spirit's activities for the next few months will be much like visiting friends who feel the need to trot out their pictures from their holiday tour of the plains states every time you visit.
"Look, there's Irma in front of the World's Largest Ball of Twine...."
Brian
Shaka
Apr 15 2006, 06:01 PM
QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Apr 15 2006, 04:23 AM)
The wildest idea is to try to climb a rock on the way by one of the wheels to get a correct north face tilt.
Rodolfo
We probably need to practice this kind of 5-legged acrobatics. We don't want to take 3 or 4 sols to get properly perched.
I'm not sure how many sols we could afford.
algorimancer
Apr 15 2006, 09:37 PM
QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Apr 14 2006, 03:02 PM)
So fragil that some gushing wind may break it off. I have also measured it but I got different result. According to GIMP tool, the given distance is 130.9 pixels. Then, the picture has 1024x1024 pixels (this is of 1 Megapixels) and its proportion is 2.8346 has pixels/mm (36.124 cms width and 36.124 height). Then the size of "flying stone" is 46.18 mm (130.9/2.8346). How do you get to measure it as 160 mm long?
Rodolfo
I verified the measurement, measuring to the right tip of the projection, and got 18 cm with about a 1 cm error, basically in agreement with alan's measurement (he set the right side of the measurement a bit to the left of where I did). I'm not sure how he did it, but I used my own app, AlgorimancerPG, which you can find at
http://www.clarkandersen.com/RangeFinder.htm. I'm not familiar with GIMP, so I don't have any idea of why it offers different results.
dot.dk
Apr 15 2006, 11:14 PM
I just looked at an image from when Spirit was on top of Husband Hill... How clean she was back then
So I made this gif to show the current dust buildup
A breath of wind could be used indeed
RNeuhaus
Apr 16 2006, 01:44 AM
QUOTE (dot.dk @ Apr 15 2006, 06:14 PM)
A breath of wind could be used indeed
Good example, everybody knows that Spirit is dirtier in basin than on the top of Hill. She started to get dirtier during his transverse from El Dorado to HP.
Hence, I saw that the upper of hill (see me previous posts) where there will be more breeze (see more stones and tail marks of ripples behind any stones) and it will help to blow out the powder.
Rodolfo
sattrackpro
Apr 16 2006, 01:07 PM
Here’s a Q&D pan from the 4/15/06 (Sol 811) pancam directory of exploratorium - a look toward Husband Hill and the edge of HP. There’s an interesting spot in the tracks here (second image below) where it looks as if the right front wheel may have failed to rotate momentarily, a few meters before it failed completely. Maybe, maybe not... it could just be a patch of soft-dust-ridge the wheels went through, and it does have some cleat marks, however they aren’t uniform.
ElkGroveDan
Apr 16 2006, 03:35 PM
QUOTE (dot.dk @ Apr 15 2006, 03:14 PM)
By the looks of the soil you are using images from different filters. I think it might be more accurate to use images taken though the same filter.
dot.dk
Apr 16 2006, 04:05 PM
QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ Apr 16 2006, 03:35 PM)
By the looks of the soil you are using images from different filters. I think it might be more accurate to use images taken though the same filter.
It's two navcam images
So no filter issues.
ElkGroveDan
Apr 16 2006, 04:17 PM
QUOTE (dot.dk @ Apr 16 2006, 08:05 AM)
It's two navcam images
So no filter issues.
Dang! I've been taking photos since Viking, and I'd swear that first one was through a red filter.
Nonetheless, dusty it is!
Ant103
Apr 16 2006, 07:25 PM
djellison
Apr 16 2006, 07:29 PM
It's OK Bob - I'll take this one...
Dust Devils did not clean Spirit.
Doug
Shaka
Apr 16 2006, 07:45 PM
You ought to consider programming a 'hot key' for this reply.
But I seriously worry that we may be getting more and more anxious for ANY sort of wind event as the months wear on at Low Ridge. Dust strangulation would be a particularly agonizing way for Spirit to go.
djellison
Apr 16 2006, 08:10 PM
Common missconceptions require frequent correction.
I can see how and why it started - but the relation between cleaning and dust devils is simply that summer has stronger winds, and the summer also has more DD's. The connection is also furthered by the fact that we were in a topographically adventagous place during the summer.
Doug
Bob Shaw
Apr 16 2006, 08:56 PM
Doug:
For this, you don't need an FAQ list, but instead a FIA list.
That's Frequently Ignored Answers...
Bob Shaw
jvandriel
Apr 17 2006, 09:57 AM
Here is the complete view from Low Ridge Haven.
Spirit looking back at Husband Hill and surrounding.
Taken on Sol 811 with the R1 pancam.
jvandriel
sattrackpro
Apr 17 2006, 12:44 PM
In case you haven't seen it, a new rover update was posted on the marsrovers website
HERE, dated the 14th. The 'news' is that the increase in power is, "
50 to 60 watt-hours per sol" - which only "
gives the rover enough energy for about one hour of daytime remote science."
Unfortunately that isn't much of an increase - but it at least allows some of the 'science' that many have longed to see.
sattrackpro
Apr 17 2006, 01:00 PM
One more item from
THIS LINK - we ~could~ be sitting virtually in one small area for 8 months... maybe - some of that determined by lowered driving ability. Here's part of the text.
"
We have to use care choosing the type of terrain we drive over," Dr. Ashitey Trebi-Ollennu, a rover planner at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., said about the challenge of five-wheel driving. In tests at JPL, the team has been practicing a maneuver to gain additional tilt by perching the left-front wheel on a basketball-size rock.
Spending eight months or so at Low Ridge Haven will offer time for many long-duration studies that members of the science team have been considering since early in the mission, said Dr. Ray Arvidson of Washington University in St. Louis, deputy principal investigator. These include detailed mapping of rocks and soils; in-depth determination of rock and soil composition; monitoring of clouds and other atmospheric changes; watching for subtle surface changes due to winds; and learning properties of the shallow subsurface by tracking surface-temperature changes over a span of months.
Bill Harris
Apr 17 2006, 02:16 PM
There is nothing wrong with Spirit being a sessile observer for a while. This will give us a chance to do a long-term observation of the aeolian processes that we've seen many signs of. Remember where Spirit was at Sol 90: between Bonneville and The Hills and very dusty. This trek has been miraculous.
In an ideal world, the right front wheel should have conked out while she was doing a survey on top of VonBraun, now that would be a heck of a view.
--Bill
RNeuhaus
Apr 17 2006, 04:08 PM
QUOTE (sattrackpro @ Apr 17 2006, 08:00 AM)
"[i]We have to use care choosing the type of terrain we drive over," Dr. Ashitey Trebi-Ollennu, a rover planner at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., said about the challenge of five-wheel driving. In tests at JPL, the team has been practicing a maneuver to gain additional tilt by perching the left-front wheel on a basketball-size rock.
That is very good news. The problem can be solved by small steps toward the desired destination. It was what I was thinking in my recent previous post!
Rodolfo
Burmese
Apr 17 2006, 05:19 PM
At least this low ridge has a lot of interesting things for Spirit to look at. And it seems to be closely associated with Home Plate so what she discovers here will undoubtedly tell a lot about that feature. Had she made it to the side of McCool Hill I am not sure we would have had as rich a target environment (for a -very- slow moving rover now).
RNeuhaus
Apr 17 2006, 07:38 PM
QUOTE (Burmese @ Apr 17 2006, 12:19 PM)
Had she made it to the side of McCool Hill I am not sure we would have had as rich a target environment (for a -very- slow moving rover now).
During this fall and winter. It would be impossible for Spirit to catch the spoted places (korolev or Faget places) where are Spirit would be able to survive with the minimum energy buildup. From where Spirit is to these spot would not be able to advance as long as the battery is depleted. The problem is that the Spirit range autonomy has reduced much with one of the stuck wheels and low solar energy. Maybe, after spring, with dust devils to clean its solar panels and plus much solar energy, Spirit would be able to advance slowly toward to McCool Hill.
However, many people from JPL has felt that they need more time to study around HP so it is most probably that Spirit won't go to McCool Hill but back to HP. That is 20% effort and 80% science philosophy.
Rodolfo
djellison
Apr 17 2006, 09:10 PM
QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Apr 17 2006, 07:38 PM)
with dust devils to clean its solar panels
OK, now I KNOW you're having a laugh....
Doug
slinted
Apr 17 2006, 10:02 PM
A solid cleaning event would be nice, but Spirit probably has a long wait in store until the next one. The first, and I believe the most significant, cleaning event was on Sol 420, one sol before the first dust devils were spotted. That was LS 173, and we've got until January 26 of 2007 before that time of year will roll around again.
RNeuhaus
Apr 17 2006, 10:17 PM
QUOTE (djellison @ Apr 17 2006, 04:10 PM)
OK, now I KNOW you're having a laugh....
Doug
My previous post I was saying that the Dust Devil will start to phantom on Gusev Crater in the next spring. Luckly, it would hit on Spirit. I remember that I saw a picture with one big DD roaring on the south basin of Columbia Hill. But, now, the weather is becoming cooler and cooler, that the DD won't be able to appear unless the breeze might happen in some time.
As I remember that there is another cleaning dust method. This has happened to Oppy when it was roving inside the Endurance crater. One martian early morning, the panel solar was covered by a very thin film of ice during the sunrise, later, the panel solar became clean due to the water cleaning. It might happen the same to Spirit during the early winter morning.
Isn't that a bad news?
Rodolfo
Jeff7
Apr 17 2006, 11:28 PM
QUOTE (djellison @ Apr 17 2006, 05:10 PM)
OK, now I KNOW you're having a laugh....
Doug
We're all going to say this soon, until you completely lose it. We'll see you outside of Bill Harris' house one day at his 1/4 scale MER model, with a mini tornado generator machine, screaming "
dust devils don't clean solar panels!!! BAHAHAHAAA!!!!!"
Shaka
Apr 18 2006, 12:08 AM
QUOTE (Jeff7 @ Apr 17 2006, 01:28 PM)
"
dust devils don't clean solar panels!!! BAHAHAHAAA!!!!!"
O.K. Let's keep the discussion at UMSF fair, considered and scientific whereever possible. To whit, dust devils are not known to have caused any MER panel cleaning events to date. Other forms of wind gusts that can occur at night are most likely responsible - why don't we give them a name, say, "gust angels". Pray for gust angels at Low Ridge Haven, but don't spurn a wayward DD that might show up instead. Since DDs vacuum up dust from the surface of Mars, they might well be capable of doing the same for Spirit. Angels or devils, it's the
effect we need!
DFinfrock
Apr 18 2006, 12:11 AM
QUOTE (djellison @ Apr 17 2006, 09:10 PM)
OK, now I KNOW you're having a laugh....
Doug
What I would like to see now is one of USTRAX's famous posters. An ad for the Martian Dust Devils cleaning service seems to be in order.
David
bergadder
Apr 18 2006, 03:53 AM
QUOTE (djellison @ Apr 17 2006, 05:10 PM)
OK, now I KNOW you're having a laugh....
Doug
I know where the filters can be obtained:
http://www.appliancefactoryparts.com/vacuu...nds/dust-devil/
jamescanvin
Apr 18 2006, 04:37 AM
I like the look of this for the coming sol
:
CODE
814 p2280.05 52 0 0 52 0 104 pancam_McMudro_pan_col_1_L234567Rall
The first column of a pan in all filters
(I would assume a 360
)
Not only that, but with 52 images that means it's going to be 4 frames high!
James
djellison
Apr 18 2006, 07:12 AM
I'll get Helen to take a picture of me infront of some posters I'm putting up at the BAA conference this weekend, then someone can annotate appropriately
Doug
TheChemist
Apr 18 2006, 09:09 AM
Some wishful thinking
Nix
Apr 18 2006, 09:53 AM
QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Apr 18 2006, 06:37 AM)
Not only that, but with 52 images that means it's going to be 4 frames high!
James
Looking forward to that one!
Nico
Tesheiner
Apr 18 2006, 10:10 AM
If they keep this pace of one row a day (let's hope not), it means a little less then one month to finish the 360º panorama.
I'm wondering if the atmosphere would be stable enough during all this time, otherwise we would have similar problems as on previous panoramas (Everest?) trying to match frames taken on different sols under different illumination conditions.
djellison
Apr 18 2006, 10:27 AM
The alternative is to have it done in 4 columns at a time - and then the join between the 'batches' is bad
Doug
MahFL
Apr 18 2006, 05:27 PM
Some dramitic low angle sun illumination pics from Spirit's Pancam today
e.g.
http://nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/...00P2408R1M1.JPG
general
Apr 18 2006, 06:17 PM
QUOTE (MahFL @ Apr 18 2006, 07:27 PM)
Some dramitic low angle sun illumination pics from Spirit's Pancam today
e.g.
http://nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/...00P2408R1M1.JPGLovely picture - notice how the pattern of the sand ripples of Eldorado changes from west to east.
Stu
Apr 18 2006, 06:38 PM
GORGEOUS image MahFL, thanks! Seems years since we were looking down on those ripples, doesn't it?
Ant103
Apr 18 2006, 07:46 PM
Wowww O_O, it's wonderfull! This is a spectacular view!
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