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Full Version: The Valley Without Peril (Bay C5)
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Tesheiner
Given the interest on this particular bay as a potential entry point and also because we are way past Bahia Blanca (former "current thread") I've opened this thread.

Click to view attachment

Here is a "quick&dirty" autostitched navcam mosaic taken on sol 1108 focused on such bay and following cape (D1).
Click to view attachment

Edited: We might rename the thread properly once C5 is named.
Olenthra
When you say "Bay C5",

do you mean the bay inbetween the capes "C3 : The Cape of Good Hope" and the unnamed cape "D1"?

"C5" appears to be that small promontory inside this bay.

Olenthra
MarsIsImportant
QUOTE (Olenthra @ Mar 8 2007, 07:43 AM) *
When you say "Bay C5",

do you mean the bay inbetween the capes "C3 : The Cape of Good Hope" and the unnamed cape "D1"?

"C5" appears to be that small promontory inside this bay.

Olenthra


I just assumed it was the one I mark here with the blue circle.

Click to view attachment

It is the only bay in the image that is possible to navigate down.
Olenthra
It seems to me that when they name their bays, they usually extend from one large promonotory to the next. Like "Duck Bay". It extends from "P4: Cabo Frio" to "A1: Cabo Verde" even though there are some small promonotories in it.
Stu
Said it before, I know, but I love this planet...!

Click to view attachment

ohmy.gif
Tesheiner
QUOTE (Olenthra @ Mar 8 2007, 02:43 PM) *
When you say "Bay C5",

do you mean the bay inbetween the capes "C3 : The Cape of Good Hope" and the unnamed cape "D1"?

"C5" appears to be that small promontory inside this bay.

Olenthra


I would have to search that post, but IIRC when this naming convention was "invented" here it was assumed that the bays would be labelled the same as the next cape clockwise i.e. bay C5 is the one between capes C4 and C5.

QUOTE (Stu @ Mar 8 2007, 03:43 PM) *
Said it before, I know, but I love this planet...!


I'm so used to look to these pictures that sometimes I forget to remember that we are looking to another planet.
And I say to myself: that's mars, not the earth! And this picture was taken just a few hours ago!

Think of it.
Stu
QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Mar 8 2007, 04:15 PM) *
Think of it.


I think about it all the time Tesh, especially when I'm giving a talk and tell the audience "If you're online you can go to websites and see new pictures from Mars EVERY DAY..." I often find myself pausing to look at the screen myself, stopping in mid-sentence, thinking "There... right there... people will stand on this exact same spot one day and see that exact same view..."

And then you know what I think? I think...

Lucky <clink>s !!!! mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif
fredk
I'm looking forward to the new bay. I thought there was something remarkable about this pancam image showing a bit of the bay on sol 1107. The upper walls have that look of a "texture" that's been "draped" onto a 3D model - reminiscent of Beagle crater. And the contrast is striking with the dark lower slopes. If you look at the orbital imagery, you can see that this darkness is actually the extension into the crater of one of the dark streaks that stretch out onto the plains.

I had to anaglyph it:
Click to view attachment
gallen_53
QUOTE (Stu @ Mar 8 2007, 02:43 PM) *
Said it before, I know, but I love this planet...!

Click to view attachment


Me too! I think people should live on Mars (the sooner the better).

I'm really struck by the stratification of the rocks visible in the above image. I'm no geologist but it looks like sandstone. I sure this has been discussed at great lengh. What's the current theory? Was the layering due to some sort of "annual" flooding in this region or were the layers made over eons due to randomly occurring cataclysmic events, e.g. large meteor impacts?
fredk
Another mesmerizing view of the Bay to come:
Click to view attachment
Tesheiner
Does anybody wants to risk a slope angle calculation based on the last pancams?
WindyT
QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Mar 9 2007, 09:15 AM) *
Does anybody wants to risk a slope angle calculation based on the last pancams?
A better contest than on which sol Oppy will put it's toe in the crater would be --
which bay will get the honor?
ustrax
Boys...I think we're going IN...
SSomeone just wrote me the following...:
"You might be interested to know that we have named the next alcove beyond
Cape of Good Hope... it's called the Valley Without Peril. We should see
within the next few sols whether or not it lives up to its name! smile.gif"

wheel.gif wheel.gif wheel.gif
Pando
Updated labels

edit: ustrax beat me to it by 3 minutes! biggrin.gif
ustrax
QUOTE (Pando @ Mar 9 2007, 09:15 PM) *
Updated labels

edit: ustrax beat me to it by 3 minutes! biggrin.gif


;-)

That looks nice! :-)
Not definitive but...
"We haven't decided yet. But we're going to decide pretty soon."

EDITED: I remember this...and I'm drunk again laugh.gif
Tesheiner
Kudos, Ustrax!

Hey Doug (or any mod.), could you please rename this thread? smile.gif
Something like "The Valley Without Peril (Bay C5), after Cape of Good Hope".
Pando
QUOTE (ustrax @ Mar 9 2007, 01:28 PM) *
EDITED: I remember this...and I'm drunk again laugh.gif

blink.gif
Hmmm let's see... <looking for a bottle>

laugh.gif
CosmicRocker
Congratulations, ustrax, and thanks for sharing that message with us. smile.gif

In retrospect, you've got to know they were saving that name for just the right bay. The upper parts of The Valley Without Peril that Opportunity has imaged seem have slopes in the 25 degree range. Two questions come to mind: Is this a toe-dip, or a deeper plunge, and what are the targets?
MarsIsImportant
This is getting interesting.

I think the new name refers to the lack of peril because of possible power loss with the tilt. This maybe the first bay that they can navigate a course to minimize power loss. That does not mean they will actually go down this particular bay. The question is whether they want to go down this particular one or wait for a better opportunity closer to the 120 degree mark.

If we think of the previous names of bays and consider power ratios, then they start to make sense. They ducked the first one. Bottomless was a power trap. The bay of Toil needs no explanation. Bahia Blanca means white bay which could refer to the increasing power opportunity. But strangely enough both Bahia Blanca and the Gulfo San Matias refer to winter range locations of the Peregrine Falcon in South America. This could mean that we are not warm enough yet. So Valley Without Peril could easily mean that the power "winter" is over. That doesn't mean that power considerations have suddenly become ideal. It just means that it is within the realm of possibility.
Stu
So... potential targets anyone IF we go Over The Top soon...? Hands up who would like to see some "from below" views of that rocky protrusion over on the right, with its very distinctive and eye-catching dark band at the top... smile.gif

Click to view attachment

BTW, MarsIsImportant... I love your thinking... at first I thought "That's a conspiracy theory worthy of the Smoking Man standing in shadows in an alley..." but when you think about it, it makes some sense... smile.gif
Stu
... and in 3D...

Click to view attachment
jvandriel
Here is the view in the drive direction on Sol 1108

Taken with the L2 Pancam.

jvandriel
Ant103
Nice view toward the horizon on Sol 1102 (an other color panorama in previson rolleyes.gif ...) :
Click to view attachment
fredk
New long baseline views today from sols 1096/97. The first one looks past the tip of the Cape of Good Hope and across the Valley Without Peril. The 3D is pretty extreme here:
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This one is the adjacent view looking at the series of capes beyond. Without 3D this view was a jumbled mess, but now it all makes sense:
Click to view attachment
fredk
Thanks for that colour view, ant. In that view we're above the Lump - its top is just off to the right. I was wondering if any of the rock on top of Good Hope would show the same colour as the Lump (relatively greenish), and I think I've found a couple of small pieces:
Click to view attachment
Tesheiner
Today was driving sol (1111).
There are a couple of hazcams available (here and here), not enough to pinpoint the rover's position. However, I think it's possible to see the "lump#2" just to the right of the "mini-cape" C5 on this fhazcam image and with that assumption I would locate Opportunity around the NE side of the Valley Without Peril.

Edited: Ooops, navcam and pancams are finally available. Time to double-check what I said above.
Edited again: Got it. Navcam (at 144): http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportuni...HCP0685L0M1.JPG.
Mmm, "without peril"? unsure.gif
MarsIsImportant
It looks to me that there is a second lip on the Valley without Peril that makes is far too dangerous for ingress. A toe dip would be safe if necessary, because the slope is fairly shallow between the first and second lip of the rim; but the rover is not going down all the way at this particular bay. There is no way. Oppy might as well try one of the cliffs. ...Just my opinion from the new images that just came down.
BrianL
QUOTE (MarsIsImportant @ Mar 10 2007, 05:01 PM) *
It looks to me that there is a second lip on the Valley without Peril that makes is far too dangerous for ingress.


I think perhaps the viewing angle on the latest pancams make it look worse than it is. I don't see such a drop on the 1108 pictures. Let's see what it looks like when Oppy moves up to the edge.

Brian
CosmicRocker
I hate making predictions around here, but yeah, that ledge looks dangerous from the rover's eyes and those of HiRise. But then again, I predicted she'd never crawl out of Endurance. They know what they are doing.

Going out on a ledge of my own making, I think they might want to simply get to a position where they can improve the angular resolution of the pancams and other instruments. That eastern wall is a view to die for. smile.gif unsure.gif
Stu
Hey ustrax, how's this for an "abyss"...?

Click to view attachment

blink.gif
Tesheiner
RE steepness, I think BrianL is right.
The perception is usually worst from the top then from the side of a slope.
fredk
As you can see from Tesheiner's route map, we're pretty much sitting at the edge of the first of the darkest streaks that radiate out onto the plains. It's not as obvious when we're this close - I've circled it in this sol 1111 navcam:
Click to view attachment
ustrax
QUOTE (Stu @ Mar 11 2007, 08:31 AM) *
Hey ustrax, how's this for an "abyss"...?
blink.gif


Yeap Stu...this is, in my oppinion, one of the most exciting views from this mission EVER! blink.gif
Beautiful and dramatic... smile.gif
BrianL
QUOTE (ustrax @ Mar 12 2007, 11:13 AM) *
in my oppinion, one of the most exciting views from this mission EVER! blink.gif
Beautiful and dramatic... smile.gif


Yep, indeed. Can we get a few of Fred's silhouettes in the shot for a sense of scale?

Thanks
Brian
mchan
Valley Without Peril gets title billing in latest Opportunity update --

http://marsrover.nasa.gov/mission/status.html#opportunity
Phil Stooke
To me, the Valley without Peril looks very perilous - anyone can get into a hole, but I don't see Oppo getting out again, and the exposures don't look as accessible either. I say go back to Duck Bay.

Phil
WindyT
I too believe this this bay is probably not the safest ingress (I'm a big fan of looking at the bays closer to the Soup Dragon) but since I also hold a lot of trust for Oppy's drivers and mgmt, I'll just sit here and prepare for the rollercoaster ride down.
MarsIsImportant
I think the name is just a marker. It doesn't mean the MER team will take the rover down this bay. Duck bay might be better than this for safety reason.

Perhaps they see those magnificent cliffs as the target. If they can get there, it would be worth it. But I don't think they can safely get there. If they do try to go in here, the rover is not likely to get out--at least not the same way it went down. I see only one possible track down this particular bay. That track looks to be like a "dead man's curve" of a slope (from the recent pancamss of it). From above, it doesn't look so steep; but it is.
Pando
I think the steepness is an illusion from the pancam due to foreshortening. Navcam view looks much better, and once we get closer to the rim to see the full slope it should be manageable.
djellison
The new anims of Victoria crater made from HiRISE DEMS makes Sans-Peril look very interesting - especially when you don't have the really steep, large outcrops each side to hide the sun, and MODY.

Doug
Tesheiner
QUOTE (mchan @ Mar 13 2007, 02:58 AM) *
Valley Without Peril gets title billing in latest Opportunity update --

http://marsrover.nasa.gov/mission/status.html#opportunity


It includes the name of the next Cape, too.

QUOTE
Next week Opportunity will conduct an extensive long baseline stereo survey of the Valley Without Peril and "Cape St. Vincent."


Does it sounds familiar to you, Ustrax?
ustrax
QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Mar 13 2007, 03:49 PM) *
It includes the name of the next Cape, too.
Does it sounds familiar to you, Ustrax?


...Here it is... smile.gif

But it could also be this one... wink.gif
Pando
QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Mar 13 2007, 08:49 AM) *
It includes the name of the next Cape, too.


http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...ost&p=85647

tongue.gif
Pando
QUOTE (ustrax @ Mar 13 2007, 09:17 AM) *
But it could also be this one... wink.gif


Wow, the similarity is striking!

ustrax
QUOTE (Pando @ Mar 13 2007, 04:22 PM) *
Wow, the similarity is striking!


blink.gif Yes it is... blink.gif
That's quite a special place...
Here you have some more images and information.
But I believe that the Martian Cape was named after the South American one... wink.gif
Floyd
Nice Opportunity Pancam & Navcam images down earily (or late) on at Exploratorium. Evidentally came down in same downlink as Spirit images.
djellison
Might be that Oppy stayed up to do an AM Odyssey pass to double the downlink.

Doug
MarsIsImportant
Cape St. Vincent is too good of a target to pass up. If it is at all possible to get close to it, we should try. If the Valley of Peril (excuse me--Valley Without Peril) won't work, then we need to find another route. My suggested route (in the entry pool) would get the rover close. If we extended it westward just a bit, it could serve as an alternate route that might work. Meanwhile, we still need better cam shots to determine whether this new bay is possible to navigate. If it is, then it would be the shortest route to Cape St. Vincent. It might also allow a good and unique view of the cliffs at St. Mary and other Capes we passed earlier, although not as close.

So despite the apparent danger, it makes sense to investigate a possible route down from here. If they do find a way, then I'll lose the pool. But I won't mind too much, as long as the rover is safe.
jvandriel
The L0 Navcam panoramic view taken on Sol 1111.

jvandriel
jvandriel
and the Pancam L2 Panoramic view

taken on Sol 1111.

jvandriel
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