I've just been casually strolling through the Planetary Photojournal, admiring the scenery, when these appeared on my screen...

MRO perspective views

Never seen those before; has anyone else?

And are those images really NOT "vertically exaggerated" as their captions suggest? If so, then wow...!!

Your reaction echoes my own feelings: oblique 3D views (or perspective views) of a planetary surface are in general more attractive than vertical views because they correspond to our daily experience. We see the world from the surface (or close to it), looking horizontally. Unless you are a specialist, you "understand" a perspective view of a landscape much better than a vertical one. Even an alien planet surface becomes somewhat familiar when viewed obliquely. It becomes a place and you can almost imagine yourself being there. It is no surprise to me that people on this forum are more excited about the pictures sent by the MERs than by those sent by MRO et al., judging by the activity on the MER threads.

Now, if only we could have some more of those perspective views...

Wow is a massive, massive understatement.

No vertical exaggeration?????? I'm speechless.

-the other Doug

Thanks, Stu.

Nothing short of astonishing. Mars has never looked more alien to me...or more compelling. Seriously, some of these shots look like 1950s SF movie background matte paintings! You can almost hear the Theremin music...

Glad everyone likes them...

But see, this is what I mean... stunning images, guaranteed to make people go "wow!!" and I found them by accident, just killing a spare half hour by trawling through the Planetary Photojournal. Why weren't these pictures headlining the MRO site when they were made? And if MRO can make perspective images like this, then why aren't we all drooling over perspective views of the great chasms that cut into the north polar ice cap... the depths of Valles Marineris... the gullies...

Not criticising, just a bit puzzled why such astounding images aren't being used more.

Looking forward to more!

I thought 2004-2005 would be the beginnings of a great era of outreach because so much great imagery would start streaming in from Mars and Saturn, which host some of the best scenery in the solar system. But the relative apathy in the face of such imagery has surprised me. I don't know quite how to explain it -- the relative prevalence of BW imagery rather than color is probably a factor. To some extent, the competition with CGI is probably a factor, as well as the general trend for what was once miraculous to seem commonplace. I remember some really inferior imagery from Pioneer Venus and Pioneer 11 making the media in 1979. Now you'd practically have to photograph an alien city to get the same level of PR.

I don't think it's a matter of apathy. I know the guys and gals at MRO and other hi-profile missions work very hard to get things out into the space enthusiast community and the public domain as quick as they can, and we've all enjoyed some stunning views of, say, Victoria Crater, Iapetus, Homeplate and other locations in almost real-time over the past couple of years.

My frustration comes from knowing, as someone who does a hell of a lot of Outreach, that people would go ape over perspective views of Olympus Mons' flanks, the slopes of Marineris, and the other martian "tourist spots" if they were taken and released. Not even perspective views, but just hi-res crops of portions of Marineris, O Mons' caldera, places like that, you know? What I want to be able to do is, as part of my "Mars: The New New World" presentation, show the classic Viking image of Marineris cutting across one hemisphere of Mars, then zoom in on a small portion of it until I'm at almost ground level, showing boulders and ledges etc. That would give an audience real perspective, I think.

Even if that's not possible I really think it would be a good idea for the MRO site to feature more "crops" and "full resolution" images showing the fine detail HiRISE was promoted as having before its launch. I know those pictures are there for the taking, but only if you know where to look, and have the time and the hardware/software/computer knowledge to look. Most/many UMSF members have, I think it's pretty safe to say, pretty good PCs, and are computer savvy. We are quite happy using the IAS viewer, manipulating those monster JPG2000s in our specialised imaging sofware, etc. But we must be in a minority. And if HiRISE truly is "the people's camera" then its best results should be being shared with people who don't have £1000 PCs with "wow!!!" graphics cards and processors, and broadband pipelines fatter than Mike Tyson's neck. They should be accessible to people with less impressive systems, kids in schools and libraries, etc.

But again, that's not a criticism or a complaint. The MRO team do a fantastic job. I just think that there's more potential hiding in the data to inspire and educate people, that's all. People here do a great job harvesting that potential, but we can only do so much. (I say "we" when I mean, of course, YOU... I'm not able to view the full res images on my Flintstones system!).

Thank you so much for drawing our attention to these wonderful images.

There's an intangible quality to these 'perspective' shots that really makes me feel like I'm there.

WANT

DEM



MUST



ANIMATE!!!


Doug

Doug, for some odd reason I get the impression that you'd very much like to see a 'fly-through' animation of this imagery...?

No - I'd like a massive DEM so I could animate one of my own - at 4k x 4k - for full dome video planetariums

Doug

Glad my picture harvesting has prompted such a strong and positive reaction! See, there are glittering jewels hidden in the MRO chest. Time to share some of them around, I think.

But something's bothering me about those pictures... the "no vertical exaggeration" claim... does anyone else, looking at those images, think "That can't be true, they look very jagged..."? They just remind me of some of the Mars Express images which are vertically exaggerated (I recall?).

They look jagged because they are wind eroded terrain. Jagged features are typical in such landscapes. Although these examples appear to be extreme, they are within the realm of the possibility given a thicker atmosphere.

I must say that such features suggest that the atmosphere used to be much thicker than it current is. There is no way that the thin atmosphere of today's Mars could have done this IMO.

They're a very different scale to that of the HRSC images - 50x higher res probably, hence things are a lot 'rougher'. I"m hoping to get some HRSC DEM's figured out (that's today's little project) - it'd be amazing to have them for HiRISE, I know Randy was hoping he'd be able to at some point.

Doug

Thanks both for your replies, very enlightening. I still look at those images and think they just don't "look right", but happy to hear that they are I can tell there's a lot of potential in those images... looking forward to seeing more perspective views next year.

Just killing some time before heading out to work (yes, working New Year's Eve and New Year's Day, just like I worked Christmas Day and Boxing Day too... must have refused to buy some pegs or heather off a gypsy or something... )

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Reminds me of Mt. St. Helens. Huge lahar aftermath.

[edit] Lahar's not the right word. Debris avalanche... hummocks.

Great to see these perspective views- thanks for tracking them down, Stu! I like the colorized versions too. Now, (for the HiRise folks with access to the DEMs) how about a little atmospheric dust scattering to increase the realism one more notch? That would also make it easier to differentiate foreground and background, to see the full 3-dimensionality of the terrain.

John.

I don't know if anybody had a look at the following webpage:

http://mpfwww.jpl.nasa.gov/mro/gallery/video/index.html

There are some interesting videos on that page. Check out the one titled "Simulated Flight over Gullied Crater". Really mindblowing.

There is also a flyover of Victoria crater and one of the Columbia hills (although in this one the topography is vertically exaggerated by a factor of maybe 2).

Doing some SPICE kernel hackery for MRO, here's a chart of HIRISE pointing during a typical day, expressed as degrees off-nadir:



Kind of neat thinking about MRO swiveling its camera back and forth like a tourist--but usually less than 10 degrees.

I wonder if some more good perspective images will be forthcoming covering the Phoenix EDL, as HIRISE/CTX was extremely off-nadir for some of that, sometimes pointing out into space.

What are the little heartbeat-like wiggles that happen three times per hour, do you know?

--Emily

They look like they occur 13-14 times per 24 hours which is pretty close to to the MRO orbital period I guess. The shape of the squiggles looks like a typical slew maneuver to me, but the magnitude seems pretty small. Maybe it's repeated imaging at a constant illumination angle, the extent in time looks sort of right for an imaging swath. The other, larger peaks would be off-nadir requests at targets of interest?

Reorienting for atmospheric science during ingress and egress from occultation?

If it's ingress and egress, I'd expect there to be twice as many slews. This is curious. The squiggles appear prior to imaging off-nadir slews so if they're occultations I'd think they're egress observations. The angles still look too small to me to be major reorientations.

Does CRISM slew when observing the surface to provide better downtrack resolution? I noticed the CRISM map projected products look pretty distorted, narrowing down in the center- sort of like a hourglass shape, indicative of more oblique and distant look angles at swath ends.

I don't know for sure. Here's a blow-up of one of them:



Just a minor bobble of about 0.1 deg, peak-to-peak. The time between the first two "heartbeats" comes out to 1.88 hours. A quick google has one source giving MRO's orbit period as 1.91h, so it looks like it is associated with the orbit period.

The first one really DOES look like a heart beat wiggle, going backwards. The second one is more like ventricular fibrillation.


Doug

Could it be caused by attitude disturbances caused by slewing the HGA towards Earth? That would happen every orbit.

Airbag

Ahh... sounds like a possible explanation. So it slews the HGA every time Earth rises from behind Mars?

Hmmm... Looking at the zoomed-in bit, it does look like an attitude disturbance rather than a slew. If one of the peaks is the HGA alignment, could the other one be solar array alignment? Makes sense these things would be done only once per orbit in order not to mess up pointing during scheduled observations.

I am excited to see these views being produced. I have no knowledge of 3-d stuff, so I would have no idea how to do these. They are like mini-lander missions (or at least glider missions).