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3488
Hi everyone.

Phoenix on Sol 46 have returned images of the Sun above the Northern Horizon, just before midnight.

Sun 11:14 PM local time.
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Sun 11:16 PM local time.
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Sun 11:26 PM local time.
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Andrew Brown.
Stu
Thanks!

I know that's just a big flarey... flare above a block of black, but boy, do I love that top image...!!! biggrin.gif
3488
QUOTE (Stu @ Jul 12 2008, 10:10 PM) *
Thanks!

I know that's just a big flarey... flare above a block of black, but boy, do I love that top image...!!! biggrin.gif


Hi Stu,

Yes I know, I do not think there is much that can be done about the 'blooming', part of the problem with using CCDs in high contrast conditions, but yes, I agree, I too love that top image. Suspect the top image was a shorter exposure.

Also RAC image @ 11:29 PM Sol 46. Note how different the illumination is.
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As above but on Sol 47 @ 12:07 AM.
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Sun above horizon: Sol 47 @ 12:29 AM local time.
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Andrew Brown.
Stu
IF those three images in today's release actually are R, G & B images, and IF I've got my colour balance right, then here's a colour view of Phoenix's night sky...

Click to view attachment
3488
Thank you very much Stu.

Yes IMO that is pretty well spot on. Just checked again on the U of A site, but there is nothing new. Perhaps in the next download? It's great to see these near midnight observations.

Andrew Brown.
imipak
Thanks Stu and all, that's a keeper. I love such simple, almost abstract images where the power comes from the context.

At some point as the season changes there will be prolonged semi-sunsets, hopefully the CCD bleed problem will be mitigated somewhat - I'd love to see something like the Oppy "sunset at Meridiani" image, or even a simulated multiple exposures shot compiled over many days -- something like, say, http://www.eaglestation.com/sunsets/620-2197.jpg .(That's just a random pick from a quick google.)

3488
Hi imipak, what you suggested with the Midnight Sun montage you linked to, is exactly what I have already suggested to the Phoenix team.

Thought this may be interesting to share.

Changing illumination during half a sol 46 - 47 from the RAC, local time, Scandia Colles.

12:09 Hrs Sol 46.
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19:25 Hrs Sol 46.
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20:45 Hrs Sol 46.
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22:36 Hrs Sol 46.
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23:20 Hrs Sol 46.
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00:06 Hrs Sol 47.
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00:58 Hrs Sol 47.
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Andrew Brown.
djellison
There's no need to fill the UMSF server by downloading and then attaching all the Phoenix imagery in question - simply provide links to it at the Phoenix website.
slinted
Here's an little preview of what I think we'll see in the midnight sun images, once we see an official release. What I did isn't accurate. Frankly, it's completely made up. I even left in the rainbow of CCD bleed as a reminder of how not-real it is. I tried to match the look of the Gusev sunset, but since the brightness and 'blue-ness' of the halo are dependent on dust levels, it may end up looking completely different (did I mention the image is made up? smile.gif ). I can't wait to see what the SSI team can do with them. This view will be as awe inspiring and (hopefully) popular as the now iconic Spirit image.

djellison
QUOTE (slinted @ Jul 14 2008, 05:37 PM) *
I even left in the rainbow of CCD bleed


And it's very pretty smile.gif
Paul Fjeld
QUOTE (3488 @ Jul 13 2008, 04:25 PM) *
Thought this may be interesting to share.
Changing illumination during half a sol 46 - 47 from the RAC, local time, Scandia Colles.

I really don't understand why the shadows, which are very distinct during the day, should be so washed out at midnight. Is the sky that much more lit up by a low sun? Is there a good deal of backfill lighting by the midnight facing surfaces of Phoenix... (no). Very odd and disturbing for a guy who has been trying to paint that scene for the last month (with little success).

Paul
CosmicRocker
I suspect that if you were to look at the exposure lengths of those images, you would find that the "shutter" remained open longer when there was less light.
fredk
QUOTE (Paul Fjeld @ Jul 15 2008, 04:08 AM) *
I really don't understand why the shadows, which are very distinct during the day, should be so washed out at midnight.

I noticed that too. The ratio of scattered light (via the sky) to direct sunlight is much higher when the sun is close to the horizon, because the air is so dusty, and low sunlight must pass through lots of dust. Think of the dust storm last year - there was so much dust that shadows became much less distinct for the rovers, even at midday.

On earth you can see the same effect, but it's less noticable on clear days because on earth more of the scattered light is from air molecules than dust. Think of a smoggy or smoky day on earth.
Ant103
Hi,

Here is a try to make a mosaic with the two frames to have the midnight's sun. Removed manually CCD flare.
Paul Fjeld
Okay, that makes sense. I would have thought it would have been like the Opportunity low sun anyway - perhaps even more pronounced. The midnight shots are maybe a little more exposed, but I don't think so much that it would wash out a shadow line completely, especially since the lit parts aren't blown out. The anti-sun sky must be bright too then!

Paul
Paul Fjeld
I'm trying to suss out the anti-sun sky near midnight and I'm not sure if I'm interpreting some of the 'blocky' SSI pics right. From Mark's site, SOL 49, this is a view straight at the sun at 1:00am. This was taken about a half hour later about 20 degrees east of anti-sun. To my eye, the at-sun shot gross variations in value compare reasonably well with the high rez pic gradations taken earlier. It's filter was L3 450.8 (solar/dust). The second picture, taken through the L5 887.0 filter (solar/dust+water), seems to indicate that the sky brightens as elevation >increases<. At least me looking at a 'lego block tower' shot with fredk's take on the lack of shadows in the RAC midnight pics in my head, makes me think that's what I'm looking at. Is the data too skimpy? (What, 15 pixels ...?) Anybody see what I'm seeing? Should I read up on filters?

Paul
3488
Hi all,

I have worked on this image, with contrast & a little cropping, centreing the Due North point.

Looking Due North @ 11:09 PM / 23:09 local time in Scandia Colles.

North Pole is approx 1,303 KM / 809 miles straight up the centre. Sun is off to the left.
Click to view attachment

Andrew Brown.
Paul Fjeld
Huzzah! Near midnight (+13 min) pics! Also from 2:35 am and 4:27 am.

Weird shadow action - washed out at low sun, more distinct as the sun rises. Still can't figure out the sky stuff anti-sun but it must be brighter at midnight.

My attempt at a color shot:



Full size
.

I don't know what the 2-Blue filter does to the final colors instead of the surface C-Blue filter. Anyway. Hope the official color one comes out soon!

Paul
Stu
I had a go at animating colourised versions I made of that scene...

"Midnight Shadows"... smile.gif

Click to view attachment

Ant103
Nice gif Stu smile.gif

Here is my version in a board wink.gif.
ElkGroveDan
QUOTE (Stu @ Jul 22 2008, 11:21 PM) *
"Midnight Shadows"... smile.gif


Are those anything like "Moon Shadows"? (maybe it's time for some of your verse, Stu.)
Gray
Thanks Ant. I like the side-by-side comparison.
mars loon
Midnight Sun from Phoenix

Click to view attachment

http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images/gallery/md_15233.jpg

just appeared at UA website:

"The solar images were taken between 10 p.m. and 2 a.m., local solar time, during the nights of sols 46 to 56. composite of Sols 46 to 54"

Stu
Awwwwwwwwww, sooooooooooooooooooo cool!!!! I have waited a long, long time to see that! biggrin.gif
3488
QUOTE (Stu @ Jul 23 2008, 10:20 PM) *
Awwwwwwwwww, sooooooooooooooooooo cool!!!! I have waited a long, long time to see that! biggrin.gif


Same here, in fact it was something I requested prior to Phoenix's arrival. Thank you so very much guys for bringing that here & for continuing the discussion.

I thought that this would make for an interesting subject & pleased by the response at UMSF, that I was not deluded or wrong.

Thank you all for welcoming me back, I was a little nervous at first, but I am amongst friends here & it shows. laugh.gif

Andrew Brown.
Stu
Just a bit of fun...

Click to view attachment
fredk
Very cool midnight sun composite. Interesting to have a sort of "through the welder's glass" view, with everything so dark that the sun's disk is visible without glare/overexposure. I wonder if any attempt was made to provide correct relative intensity of the foreground/sky and suns, or if it was just done "aesthetically". The solar disks in the image are dimmer near midnight, more or less as I'd expect. But my guess is that the foreground (from Peter pan) is somewhat too bright. It would be nice to see a (necessarily faked) more traditional midnight sun composite as well, with the foreground and sky fully exposed and brighter solar disks. (Of course the Peter pan was shot afternoon-ish, so the shadows wouldn't be right...)
Astro0
I'm working on it - the still and the movie! wink.gif
Astro0
imipak
Wow, exactly what I was thinking of! (post #6) As I began by admiring Stu's colourisation for a couple of minutes before flipping to the previous tab with the release image, the greys appeared a beautiful pale blue/green before my colour balance adjusted... powerfully atmospheric, like a half-remembered dream of a misty moonlit night.

It brings back and old day-dream... carpet Mars with a few dozen very cheap, simple, "nothing but images" devices. I know, I know, there are dozens of reasons it can't be done, not least the very limited science return vs the cost. *sigh*

EDIT: Astro0 - looking forward to that immensely!
Stu
QUOTE (Ant103 @ Jul 23 2008, 03:03 PM) *
Nice gif Stu smile.gif


Thanks smile.gif Chuffed they've chosen it for use on Spaceweather.com today smile.gif
Astro0
For the Midnight Sun film I'm working on...
OK tell me which is correct - the Sun moving from left to right or right to left?
The panorama always confuses me for which is N,S,E,W. At least I know which is up and down rolleyes.gif

Astro0
fredk
Left to right. In the southern hemisphere it'd be the other way around...
3488
That's correct.

The 10:00 PM / 22:00 position is on the left, the 2:00 AM / 02:00 Hrs position on the right. Midnight dead ahead. That montage covers a 4 hour sweep, though spread out over 11 sols.

Andrew Brown.
Astro0
Belatedly, here's a movie depicting Phoenix's midnight sun.

Download (22.7mb)
or a very small preview version
Click to view attachment

Remember it's done as an artist's view, not the pure science.
I leave that stuff to the smart people on the forum.

Enjoy
Astro0
Stu
Click to view attachment

Beautiful, just beautiful!
Pertinax
QUOTE (Astro0 @ Aug 6 2008, 09:00 AM) *
Remember it's done as an artist's view, not the pure science.



Appropriately, that is a work of beauty Astro0! Wow -- Thank you!!!

-- Pertinax
nprev
Outstanding, Astro0, really!!!! smile.gif
TheChemist
I would add a second Oscar for the music, which was also exquisite !
Fantastic work Astro0, thank you !
Astro0
Thanks all.
Getting an Oscar was always a childhood dream of mine.

I can't lay claim to the music though. It comes from an online free music source, where you can use pieces for not-for-profit efforts. I thought it was appropriate, giving a lonely, desolate feel to the scene.

Appreciate all the feedback.
Astro0
Ant103
GREAT! smile.gif
I imagine that it represente a big job to make a so beautiful scenery wink.gif.
ElkGroveDan
Just wow! I want to see it in Imax.
mike
I enjoyed that myself. Somehow seeing the sun and the dimming and brightening of the ambient light make Mars that much more real. Thank you.
ollopa
Very Cool - I loved the moving tell-tale!


BTW: if anyone wants to create a tell-tale emoticon, I'd love to use it in all sorts of settings!
Astro0
Click to view attachment Something like this?
I'm sure one of the technically minded Admin people could accommodate the request.

Astro0
nprev
Man...talk about mad skills!!! rolleyes.gif Astro0, you just don't cease to amaze. I want that emoticon!!!
3488
Hi everyone,

Nice observation.

Sol 80 @ 00:08 HRS LMST looking North.

I have cropped & enlarged the central due north position of said image.
Click to view attachment

1,303 Km / 809 miles to the North Pole on mars.

Andrew Brown.
belleraphon1
QUOTE (Astro0 @ Aug 6 2008, 08:00 AM) *
Belatedly, here's a movie depicting Phoenix's midnight sun.

Remember it's done as an artist's view, not the pure science.
I leave that stuff to the smart people on the forum.

Enjoy
Astro0


Boy, am I behind... (so much going on hard to keep up... ain't that great smile.gif )

Beautiful movie.... watched it for the first time today.

One of my cats, Hansel, was in my lap. When the music started her head darted up and she watched the scene intently, then slowly moved out of my lap onto the pc table and tried to tap the moving sun image of the pc screen. So, she loved it too!!!! laugh.gif

Thanks Astro0... definite keeper!!!

Craig


AndyG
QUOTE (3488 @ Aug 17 2008, 11:14 AM) *
1,303 Km / 809 miles to the North Pole on mars.

Once the sun properly sets at this latitude, there's chances to see Phobos rising to a (bizarre) couple of degrees above the horizon - I wonder if we'll see any imagery of it?

Andy
jmknapp
QUOTE (AndyG @ Aug 18 2008, 08:58 AM) *
Once the sun properly sets at this latitude, there's chances to see Phobos rising to a (bizarre) couple of degrees above the horizon - I wonder if we'll see any imagery of it?


Did you have specific dates that would be good? I just ran a quick check & it looks like Phobos max elevation for any given pass ranges from 0-1.5 degrees, so there has to be the coincidence of a "high" elevation when the sun is set. For example, on Sept. 15 Phobos rises just 0.1 deg when the sun is 0.9 deg below the horizon. On Nov. 19 Phobos rises 1.4 deg with the sun 7.1 deg below the horizon. At least that's what my software says.
Paul Fjeld
At last! Late night shot through the legs of Phoenix by the RAC. This one was taken at 2:09 am when the sun was about 3 degrees above the horizon (according to Starry Night...), so it is near to what we might have seen had they taken the shot in the week after landing. Eerie having little shadow - so the sky is brightly lit by the low sun, but the sun's direct light is attenuated so much that what shadow it casts is washed out? The later shots, taken two hours later, show more distinct shadows with the sun about 11 degrees up.

Neat pictures. Look forward to the color views our bright members will make... smile.gif
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