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ustrax
Opportunity is getting ready to embark on her most extraordinary journey, a true rover epic.
As information regarding how to win the distance are being collected here, and the emotional last views from Victoria Crater are being discussed here, I thought about creating a new thread that will surely become an obligatory stop as the tall peaks and other features of Endeavour start to rise in the horizon.
Here we will be able to discuss the location of features seen from the distance, references that will help us understanding better what we are seing and that will, fortunately, feed our spirit across the long sail across the Meridiani sandwaves.

Ultreya! smile.gif


I give it a kick with this navcam image, comparing it with Astro0's original (beautiful...) image:
Click to view attachment
I'm sure James Canvin will correct me... rolleyes.gif



EDITED: I can't resist...I tried! I honestly tried, but it is stronger than me...so many features ahead and not a single name?! tongue.gif
Seriously, at Victoria we had features named after places visited by the vessel, and now for Endeavour? Assuming that Oppy will succeed on her quest will the mission keep the same policy, of naming places after Endeavour's tour? If so, there may be some names in common with Victoria... unsure.gif
While we are ready to leave the port once more I remembered that we could start naming, internally, (in order to have catchier landmark references... rolleyes.gif ) these features, as they loom in the horizon, after the ship's crew.
We could follow the order presented here.
Let me just edit the image up there... rolleyes.gif
jamescanvin
QUOTE (ustrax @ Sep 29 2008, 04:13 PM) *
I'm sure James Canvin will correct me... rolleyes.gif´


smile.gif

It's been a long time - I may have to recheck it sometime, but last time I did this (over two years ago!) I reckoned that "Cook" was the hill further to the right of where you place it. (EDIT: now as I had it in the updated version)

Great names, great thread. This is going to be fun. wheel.gif smile.gif

James
ilbasso
Looking back at this thread from two years ago, I see this wonderful quote about the Big Crater from Our Fearless Leader:

QUOTE (djellison @ Sep 21 2006, 07:58 AM) *
For the love of god don't let a rover driver see this or we'll be attempting to jump Victoria in the rush to get there smile.gif

Doug

climber
QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Sep 29 2008, 06:05 PM) *
Great names, great thread. This is going to be fun. wheel.gif smile.gif
James

I second this!
Rui, I was badly waiting for this trait coming from YOU and here it is! smile.gif
It reminds so many memories,
it opens so many possibilities.

This is definitively going to be fun
charborob
We should be on the lookout also for the ridge on the West side of Endeavour. It is about half the distance of Victoria to "Cook", and seems to be quite high.
ustrax
QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Sep 29 2008, 05:05 PM) *
This is going to be fun. wheel.gif smile.gif


Oh yes it will...and (why wasn't I surprised?...) you have come to the rescue once more! smile.gif
I've corrected the image in the first post, don't want to start with the left foot...

charborob, there was a feature to the right of Cook appearing in previous images and I believe James pointed its location...I'll check it.

climber...we meet again! biggrin.gif
fredk
QUOTE (ustrax @ Sep 29 2008, 04:13 PM) *
I give it a kick with this navcam image

Thanks for pointing out we can see Endeavour in that image, ustrax! Gosh, what an image that is. First Sputnik crater in the foreground, only 7 metres or so across. Then the gaping aperture of our old friend Victoria, at 700 or so metres across. Finally, far away in the distance, the peaks of the rim of great Endeavour, our next destination, some 22 km across! Here's an anaglyph of that view:
Click to view attachment
jamescanvin
Anyone remember those 'Inverse polar' images I did to match up the far rim of Victoria with the HiRISE images when we arrived?



Well I thought is was about time to dust off that technique.

Click to view attachment

Each column of the image represents one line of sight from Duck Bay across the THEMIS images - each being 0.044 degrees apart (the same as the navcam resolution) the left edge is at 45 degrees (North-East) and the right edge at 180 degrees (South)

At the top is a crop and 5x Phil-o-vision of the image Ustrax posted, According to the tracking site the centre of that image is at 108 degrees so that is where I've placed it - no fudging to make it line up required!

James
ustrax
James...
biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

I like that...a lot!
It looks like I'll have to edit my file again, Hicks should be where Gore is and Gore is the solitary elevation to NE.
I'm sure other views will appear in the following days... smile.gif
Pertinax
QUOTE (fredk @ Sep 29 2008, 01:17 PM) *
Thanks for pointing out we can see Endeavour in that image, ustrax! Gosh, what an image that is. First Sputnik crater in the foreground, only 7 metres or so across. Then the gaping aperture of our old friend Victoria, at 700 or so metres across. Finally, far away in the distance, the peaks of the rim of great Endeavour, our next destination, some 22 km across!


And Explorer / Sofi on the far rim -- four craters martian craters in one image. That has got to be a record of some sort! rolleyes.gif


-- Pertinax
climber
So James Cook (biggrin.gif) isn't Rui's Cook, correct ?
climber
I'm pretty sure I already said that somewhere but anyway.
I used to go to New Zealand for quite some years and always had to go to Gisborne ... which is the very place where James Cook first landed in Aotea Roa (Maori's name for New Zealand which means "the Land of the long white clouds"). So let's a feature already visible be called Young Nick's head: http://www.teara.govt.nz/1966/Y/YoungNicks...ungNicksHead/en
After New Zealand I had to go to Kauaii Island and had to go to Waimea ...which is the very place where James Cook landed in Hawaii islands.
So, Endeavour means something very special to me smile.gif
Shaka
Is it possible that the correct term was not "Young Nick's Head", but rather "Young Nick's Headache" after he drank his "gallon of rum"? cool.gif
On a more serious note, Hawaii, was also the termination point of Cook's final voyage, when he got into a disagreement with some of the locals on the Big Island. A stone monument marks the spot on the coast where "Old James' Head" rolled in this initial setback to British diplomacy. Happily, greater successes did follow, as reflected in the Union Jack that still graces one corner of the Hawaiian state flag. The other former colonies of the U.S.A. were not so cordial to British emblems.
jamescanvin
QUOTE (ustrax @ Sep 29 2008, 07:48 PM) *
It looks like I'll have to edit my file again, Hicks should be where Gore is and Gore is the solitary elevation to NE.


Maybe, but I'm not sure quite how accurate the image will be. There are multiple THEMIS images which don't line up perfectly which will cause an error and I haven't reprojected the navcam image so that will be slightly off. I wouldn't rule out your original guess yet.


QUOTE (climber @ Sep 29 2008, 08:53 PM) *
So James Cook (biggrin.gif) isn't Rui's Cook, correct ?


Yes Rui's modified Cook is right, that I am sure of. This analysis points to that hill, as does the different method I used on different images two years ago. To be clear my objection in post 2 was to Rui's original image which he subsequently updated.
Bobby
Does anyone have any idea how deep Endeavour Crater is compared to Victoria???

Is it lower in elevation or downhill compared to where we are at now?
Astro0
Not sure if this alternate view of Endeavour crater at 8 times vertical exaggeration will assist in this 'endeavour' (pun intended) smile.gif
Click to view attachment

Astro0
Phil Stooke
That's really nice. You can see how the Meridiani Planum material drapes over the crater's northern rim and fills much of the depression. Those hills on the rim are part of the cratered terrain unit underlying the Meridiani Planum material. It would be a real coup to get to one of the rim hills.

Phil
ustrax
Really, really nice! smile.gif

Looking at this old image (if only I could remember which was the original I have used and how many times I stretched it...) it looks like that we can identify the contour of Cook and the two following elevations to the south. I won't dare to say that I can see the crater in Cook's slope, that is probably an artifact... wink.gif

I'll look at this with more attention after having a bath and a coffee...

And James...I don't think that climber was being that technical when he made reference to my "Cook"... rolleyes.gif

EDITED: Had a bath, had a coffee, had the work done...

Here's what I was talking about:
Click to view attachment
Probably wrong (from James image looks like the three elevations fit all in Cook) but the contour seems to coincide...
You'll also notest that I've named the three features with names previously used in this thread first post (already edited) but I think that it would make more sense to have the three lieutenants together at the "vessel's bridge".
In consequence I had to pick new names for the peaks in the NW, I've took the option of going for the civilians onboard Endeavour, maybe we can follow this line of thought from here on:
NW to NE - The Civilians
SW to SE - The Marines
E - The Crew

Full list here.

James...are we getting somewhere? smile.gif
Ant103
Astro0 : I'm curious to know how do you obtain a such precise elevation of Endeavour? I really enjoy to make simulation in Terragen smile.gif.
djellison
It's from the HRSCView website - from MEX HRSC data. Honestly, the data really isn't that good.

DOug
jamescanvin
QUOTE (ustrax @ Sep 30 2008, 07:38 AM) *
James...are we getting somewhere? smile.gif


This is a guess, I'm at work and don't have the time or the tools to do a proper analysis so the scale could be well off. But I would say it should be more like this...

climber
For quite a while, we're going to extract as much informations of Endeavour's rim as possible from a few pixels.
I wonder if pictures (from Spirit) of the rim of Gusev can be used to better help assuming what is real and what it's not.
I'm sure we can find, in the data base, pictures of Gusev's rim at approximately the same distance, such pictures from the plain could be compared to pictures from the top of Husband's hill. I'm here assessing that the quality from the top is better than from the plain.
Later into the traverse we'll be able to compare some Victoria's features (at least the Beacon I guess) as seen from a distance to what we realy know.
Just a thought.
climber
QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Sep 30 2008, 12:31 PM) *
This is a guess, I'm at work and don't have the time or the tools to do a proper analysis so the scale could be well off. But I would say it should be more like this...

It's visualy my feeling too... The left ridge of the summit was not matching at all in Rui's proposition but it does here.
ustrax
James is my hero!... tongue.gif


A perfect match! Guess I'll have to restrain myself before posting this ideas without checking the details carefully...
Looks like we've nailed Cook without doubts!:
Click to view attachment

BTW, new navcams and pancams are in, nothing new in the horizon, at least for my eyes, guess the driving guys will be pleased... smile.gif


jamescanvin
QUOTE (ustrax @ Sep 30 2008, 12:14 PM) *
A perfect match! Guess I'll have to restrain myself before posting this ideas without checking the details carefully...


Where would we be without your crazy ideas? laugh.gif

Keep 'em coming - with just a small dose reality we've ended up with your fantastic (and probably accurate wink.gif ) last diagram.

Onwards!

J
Astro0
Ant103 - "I'm curious to know how do you obtain a such precise elevation of Endeavour?"
Doug - "It's from the HRSCView website - from MEX HRSC data."


Yep Ant, Doug's right - it's from the HRSCView website.
I don't claim to have any magical DEM data at my disposal.
As I've said before, I'm about pretty pictures not the hard science.

I hope too that we get some DEMs for Endeavour, as I'm sure that Doug and yourself will come up with some dazzling images and animations.

Astro0

PS: Glad to see that image might have cleared up the "which peak is that on the horizon?" mystery. smile.gif
djellison
I've tried using that HRSC DEM for animation - and it's...how can I put this politely.

Not very good.

I'll leave it there.
ustrax
QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Sep 30 2008, 01:11 PM) *
Where would we be without your crazy ideas? laugh.gif


I have no idea...Nicarágua? tongue.gif

Here's the latest development of my work in progress:
Click to view attachment
I'll have one of this on the wall after I give it some retouches... smile.gif
rogelio
Hypothetical question (and pardon if this is isn’t the right thread for it) - Had we known “for certain” that Opportunity had 5 years and 25 km in her from the start – and had we had HiRise pictures of all terrain within 25 km of the landing site, how might the exploration strategy have been different? Would less time have been spent at Victoria, and would she be approaching Endeavour right now? Or perhaps the rover team would have chosen to strike out in an entirely different direction from the landing site/Endurance?
djellison
QUOTE (rogelio @ Sep 30 2008, 03:43 PM) *
Hypothetical question


You could get a million different answers for that. You could say that the purgatory style dunes in HiRISE imagery would have scared them off heading south, so they would have gone in another direction completely. You could say anything really. It wouldn't be any less or more right than any other answer.
Stu
Ustrax,

I have nothing to contribute to this amazing game of "line up the blurs" but I just wanted to say that I don't actually care if none of your names are used in the end, if all of your diagrams turn out to be inaccurate, and all the elevations prove to be hopelessly wrong; with your energy and enthusiasm and passion, having you as our cheerleader for this adventure is like having Willy Wonka showing us around his factory. biggrin.gif

Onwards! smile.gif
Ant103
QUOTE (djellison @ Sep 30 2008, 02:45 PM) *
I've tried using that HRSC DEM for animation
(…)
Not very good.


Okay. But you already have it. Can I try?
But I will try to make an artificial bump map with picture of Endeavour.
djellison
Why do you need to ask me if you can try? The data's all at the HRSCView website, including an IDL based routine to turn it into easily usable formats.
dvandorn
QUOTE (Stu @ Sep 30 2008, 10:15 AM) *
...having you as our cheerleader for this adventure is like having Willy Wonka showing us around his factory. biggrin.gif

Ooom-pa!
Ooom-pa!
Tickety-ay!
We're going to Endeavour,
We're on our way!
Ooom-pa!
Ooom-pa!
Tickety-tipple!
Let's hope we don't get
Stuck in a ripple!

smile.gif

-the other Doug
Ant103
Okay Doug, I misunderstand. Sorry.
Phil Stooke
Wow, Other Doug, I didn't think anybody would be able to top my poem, but you did it!

Phil
ustrax
QUOTE
I have nothing to contribute to this amazing game of "line up the blurs"

My friend, I am sure that as soon as the haze in the horizon starts dissipating and the peaks of Endeavour start calling you like a syren you will come up with something...fitting... smile.gif

QUOTE
I don't actually care if none of your names are used in the end

Well...it worked in the past... tongue.gif

QUOTE
if all of your diagrams turn out to be inaccurate, and all the elevations prove to be hopelessly wrong

You can say that's part of my charm...can't you? cool.giflaugh.gif
And it's always a good opportunity to give the others the chance to show what they know... laugh.gif

Ultreya!
marswiggle
Fortunately I long ago downloaded and saved some images of Endeavour peaks from exploratorium, considering that those images no more seem to be available otherwise than in the JPL site. So, I had an idea to make a couple of long baseline anaglyphs of those peaks in the horizon. The stereo baseline is about 50 m, ie. the distance between Oppy's location in sol 950 (right eye images here) and sol 955 (left eye). The baseline is wide enough to clearly distinguish between horizon features, at about 3 km distance, and Endeavour objects, at about 15-35 km distance.

The images are 2x vertically stretched. Hopefully the anaglyph form works to you.
Click to view attachment Click to view attachment
charborob
Using these images, would it be possible by triangulation to evaluate the distance between Opportunity and the hills, thus confirming (or not) Ustrax's identification?
ustrax
QUOTE (marswiggle @ Sep 30 2008, 06:21 PM) *
Fortunately I long ago downloaded and saved some images of Endeavour peaks from exploratorium...


marswiggle! Where have those anaglyphs been all this time?! huh.gif
Beautiful!
Can you provide the original images?
I am sure we can do something from it... smile.gif

charborob, I am pretty sure James nailed Cook, the doubt is about the twin peaks, dubbed here Banks and Solander, but if Mr. Canvin got it right once I am following is line of work... wink.gif

btw...those guys at drivability analisys are way beyond us...we're already there! laugh.gif
ilbasso
In spite of the dusty, cold weather,
We're off to explore more together!
Let's march with the band
(It's one that's unmanned)
To Ithaca! - I mean, Endeavour!
marswiggle
Click to view attachment
QUOTE (ustrax @ Sep 30 2008, 06:49 PM) *
marswiggle! Where have those anaglyphs been all this time?! huh.gif
Beautiful!
Can you provide the original images?
I am sure we can do something from it... smile.gif


My anaglyphs were made about 5 hours ago if I remember correct smile.gif The idea of checking and using those old images just occurred to me when I saw that old strethced image sent by you.

I have a bunch of images, all dusty and cobwebby from long storage and in a complete chaos I'm afraid.. But at least I can attach the original ones here. Let's see if they suit in one post.

No they didn't but I'll send another post. (I thought it best to send complete pairs in the case I happen to have both parts of a stereo pair.)
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment
marswiggle
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment

These include the long baseline images I used (mainly those ending -R1M1 for their better quality).
Tesheiner
One of the peaks can be clearly seen on the today's set of pancams.
Click to view attachment

There we go!
climber
QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Sep 30 2008, 11:30 PM) *
One of the peaks can be clearly seen on the today's set of pancams.
There we go!

We've never been so close rolleyes.gif
ustrax
Click to view attachmentTesheiner...don't you ever sleep?!
I've tried to make an anaglyph out of it but it didn't seem to work out...at least...we can see it clearer!

And we still have marswiggle images to play around...let me just have some sleep... smile.gif
Phil Stooke
Rogelio asked if Opportunity might have gone somewhere else if we had known it would last so long. Doug said there were a million possible answers. I will suggest that's not likely.

I have examined the CTX images of the region around the landing site. Truth is, there are no other enticing targets. There's a sort of ghost crater north of the landing site, but nowhere near as interesting looking as Victoria. There's some messy looking etched terrain much further north, but nowhere near as interesting-looking as the band to the south. (Actually, I think the etched terrain looked more interesting than it was.) Regardless of how long the rover might last, south was by far the best way to go.

Phil
ElkGroveDan
I would add to the "if we knew" possibilities, that in hindsight we might have swung to the East around the major dunes, arrived at Victoria sooner and might already be halfway to Endeavor.

Now if only my Delorean time machine would start. rolleyes.gif
Stu
One for our Cheerleader...

Click to view attachment

smile.gif
Stu
I know Oppy will never reach it, but I still think this mesa/butte/whateveritis down in the southern part of Endeavour deserves a really cool name...

Click to view attachment

Rui..?
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