I don't think MSL needs a "name" as there is only one. MSL also flows off the tongue easily.

The three naming competitions I've heard of are MER, Sojourner and the DS2 probes, and of those, the DS2 probes certainly were not children only ( I entered and I wasn't a school kid at the time ) - and I'm not sure about Sojourner.

If it gets kids interested in these things, I'm all for it. The names do not bother me one iota - and whilst for about 30 seconds I hated the names Spirit and Opportunity - now, after almost 1000 sols of surface operations, I couldnt possibly imagine them being called anything else - they typify the situation the two vehciles found themselves and I for one now love the names.

Doug

Main reason I don't like the name Opportunity is because it's 5 syllables.

I too never really cared for the names of the MER's though. MER-A and MER-B would have worked for me. Just pronounce them that way - mer-ah and merb.
I guess I've just kind of gotten used to their names though as the mission's gone on.

Talk about anticlimactic! Bold? You apparently just prefer dull and boring to lofty and pretentious. I dare say that with school boys, particularly science nerds, joining in the competition, there must have been plenty of names of the same caliber as "prospector" available to choose from. Your beef should be with the selectors, not the contestants.

I too was a little uncomfortable about the names Spirit and Opportunity but the rovers have certainly lived up to them, many times over. The names have allowed a connection to the rovers on a personnal level, not to mention the *opportunity* provided for even the unwitty to get into the *spirit* of things with a fun pun or two . On second thought, maybe the names *were* a mistake.

The public really, really gets into naming contests -- and they are a great way to build up public awareness of a mission before it has launched. We were involved in the contests for Spirit/Opportunity, Sojourner, and Magellan (as well as the asteroids Bonestell, Nereus, and Braille). More info here.

Lewis and Clark were disqualified as name choices because they'd already been used on other spacecraft (one of the rules in the contest). The names Spirit and Opportunity were chosen by NASA from a list of 30 pairs of names provided by contest finalists -- we took it down to the finalists, NASA picked the final ones. Other names that appeared in the finalists' list (which was judged not only on the names but on the essays submitted with them): Orville and Wilbur (8 times), Sacagawea and York, Lupus and Picus (twice), Future and Promise, Jack and Jill, Endurance and Quest, History and Future, Minda and Miakoda, Spirit and Dream, Shackleton and Endurance (twice), Hudson and Ogden, Marquette and Joliet, Holmes and Watson, Rosie and Walt (you've got to read the essay to understand this one), Banneker and Mitchel, Resilience and Epiphany, Eratosthenes and Thales, Bellona and Eris, Douglass and Garrison, Pytheas and Hudson, Intrigue and Inquirer, Xander and Beatrix, Pike and Long. Here's the contest site.

I was actually very surprised that we didn't end up with Orville and Wilbur, because the launches in 2003 coincided with the celebration of 100 years of flight, and I figured a "patriotic" NASA would celebrate good ol' American ingenuity with those names. If you wanted to honor the Lewis and Clark bicentennial without using Lewis and Clark, Sacagawea and York would have been very good choices, and very politically correct -- a native American woman and a Black slave whose contributions to the expedition were vital. My personal favorite from the list, actually, was Jack and Jill. (Read the essay for that one, it's precious.) But NASA picked Spirit and Opportunity. I wasn't a fan of the choices either when they were first made, but like a lot of people I can't imagine them being called anything else now.

--Emily

How about:

Frik and Frak

Ying and Yang

Ebb and Flow

Heckle and Jeckle

Abbott and Costello

Holmes and Yoyo

Starsky and Hutch

Hey, where'd that giant hook come fr --

After reading the list of finalists, I'm really, REALLY glad Spirit and Opportunity were picked! Orville and Wilbur would have been neat in a cute, quirky way. I guess we would be referring to the rovers as "he" if those names had been chosen.

Laural and Hardy would have been good names..... I lived in the town of North Shields, where Stan Laural was born .

Yeah, but you could just see all the younger generations going
"Laurel and who? Are they a new rap group?"

Things probably wouldn't be any better with Wilbur and Orville.

As for Lewis and Clarke, it is deeply unfortunate that NASA
decided to name two rather unremarkable Earth observation
satellites after such famous explorers. Even more so because
the first one launched in 1997 spun out of control and burned up
in just one month. The second one was never even launched
as a result.

It was hard to even find anything on them on the Web:

http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/..._and_Clark.html

Since it is pretty obvious that NASA would like to put these
satellites into the dustbin of history, perhaps we could help
their cause even further by naming some new twin space
probes after L&C and give them a much better legacy.

I still think they ought to have followed the example of the JPL MER mission patches, and called them Daffy and Marvin!

-the other Doug

I have long had suspicions that the (in my mind) more obvious choices were not taken in part because of the fear that at least one of the rovers would fail upon landing. Imagine having a Wilbur with no Orville -- worse, an Orville that was horribly dead upon arrival while Wilbur trucked on. That would have been pretty sad. But I'll never know whether that was part of their reasoning or not.

--Emily

Oppy and Spirit are a part of our history now. However, I do get a bit waggish and wish for "Marvin and Daffy"...

Which of the Wright brothers was it who crashed and killed his passenger, thus creating the very first airplane fatality?

Orville

I know that my suggestion was dull and boring (Mars Prospector), but I have
yet to see any other suggestions from the UMSF community for a name
for the MSL. Let's see something inspiring.


Another Phil

And let's not forget the first shuttle built - Enterprise, at the request of the public.

'MSL' is fine. Pathfinder was Pathfinder, Global Surveyor was Global Surveyor, and if there had been only one MER, I wouldn't have been suprised to see it called MER.

Doug

Ren and Stimpy might have been good....

If it weren't for the fact that the namesakes are still alive, I would have considered "Neil" and "Buzz" for the MERs.

-the other Doug

All right, I can't resist anymore; I have to haul out my list of "My favorite 'Name the Rovers' entries that didn't quite make the cut." Doug has seen this list already. It was my responsibility to take all the Name the Rovers entries, and weed out the -- ahem -- inappropriate ones before sending them on to the judges. I hated to see some of these go, though. I'm attaching a file containing the two proposed names, the age of the student who submitted the name; and, best of all, the essays. Other data has been deleted to protect the innocent . Here are a few of my favorites....download the file for the full list (some of which I feel I can't print here). Enjoy! --Emily

Crash and Lander
Age 13
It's self explanatory! Good Luck on this mission.

Sadaam and Osama
Age 14
Hopefully by the time that these two rovers will grt to Mars, we will have found and killed Sadam Husein and Osama Bin Laden. Once we kill them, we can say their spirits will travel to these rovers and they can do all the dirty work as their punishment.

Taco and Chalupa
Age 13
I think that the Rovers should be given these names for numerous reasons. For one thing, Taco and Chalupa are perhaps the coolest words ever. The other main reason is that Mexicans have never gone to space and would probably love to have the Rovers named after something they created. It would also make me very happy, because Taco is my favorite word, and I use it instead of "hello". Thank you for your time,

WEDIDNTLANDONTHEMOON and NASAISFAKE
Age 13
THE REASON THAT I FEAL THES WAYY IS THAT THESE ARE VERY GOOD NAMES. THEY REFLECT A HISTORY OF LIEING BY NASA. AS ALL PEOPLLE NO, NASA HAS NEVER GONE INTO SPACE. THERE IS NO "SPACE". NASA JUST FUNDS COLUMBIAS DRUG TRADE. AND SICE THESE WILL BE THE NAMES FOR SOME GUYS DOGS AND NOT SPACE ROVERS, THIS IS WAT THEY SHOUDL BE NAMED.

Star Retriever and Klingon Imperial Arizona Research Cruiser
Age 14
They are a part of history. They are two names that people young and old enjoy! A retriever is a machine that gets and resarches something! The Klingon Imperial part is because I love Star Wars and Star Trek! And so do many others. Many generations were grown up on Star Trek and Lego's. I believe that the people of our time have grown up and need something that will help them remember! That is why I put at the end: Arizona. In memory of the Pearl Harbor TORA. that means ATTACK! So we need to remember our past and move through our future with the: Star Retriever and Arizona Klingon Imperial Research Cruiser! This will be a breaking point from Depression to Boom Cycle. From the "Reagan Cycle!"

I was hoping you'd post that list, I've regularly opened it up for a serious laugh - makes you proud of our youth eh

Doug

The "didn't quites" are priceless. And the fourth one in the message text is quite self-explanatory...

--Bill

I didn't care for "Spirit and Opportunity" when I first heard them, but I'm used to them now. I think we are probably lucky they didn't become "Freedom and Democracy" or some such... OK, I'm stopping now.

Phil

I wonder if anyone picked Beavis and Butthead?

I'd wager there were at least a dozen of each of the following..

Beavis and Butthead
Wallace and Grommit
Tom and Jerry
etc etc.....


Doug

There's a rumor that, during ground testing, the JPL engineers themelves called them "Itchy and Scratchy". Given the effects of Mars dust, that might have been highly appropriate, if a bit uninspiring.

"Divorce" and "Exhaustion" were the names I'd heard

I think the only downside to Orville and Wilbur would have been in the abbreviated forms we would have adopted: Orvie and, um, Willie

Here I go again with a suggestion for an MSL name. As Bruce has reported,
there may be a 2nd MSL going to Mars in 2016. Therefore, let's give the MSL
Rover the moniker, "AVATAR."

So, in 2009 we will have Avatar 1, and in 2016, we will have Avatar 2.


Another Phil

"The incarnation of a Hindu deity, especially Vishnu, in human or animal form."

I don't see anything wrong with calling it MSL - I really don't. It's descriptive, unoffensive etc.

Doug

Why run any totally unnecessary risk of offending fundamentalist Hindus? (And I'm serious -- while they don't tend to murder people whom they consider religiously offensive remotely as often as a certain other religious persuasion I could name, they have made some serious trouble in the past. Let's avoid stuff with religious connotations.)

"MSL" is fine with me. (But then, you'll note that "MER-A" and "MER-B" were also fine with me, and in fact I still insist on using them rather than those ridiculously cornball monnikers Sean O'Keefe came up with. Ugh.)

Doug:

It *is* something very, very, very rude in Welsh, though. Not that offending the Welsh is a major problem!

(ducks and runs a LOT)

Bob Shaw

The host of the game show The Weakest Link once made a "joke"
about the Welsh and she got death threats.

So no naming probes after recent deities or still existant cultures.

So Nyarlathotep and Shub-Niggurath are allowed?

Excellent! You may be eaten last as a reward. Ia! Ia!

Chris

Perhaps we could name a probe in honor of the Welsh after all.

I dunno. Shub's last name is kind of suggestive... (Ever notice, by the way, how many half-brothers there are in the Cthulhu Mythos? The divorce rate must be appalling.)

I think we'd need a Saturn 5 just to launch the name into space.

http://www.space.com/news/spacehistory/sat...ive_000313.html

Bruce:

Certainly, many such relationships do seem to meet an early end; not so much in divorce, though, as... ...lunch.

Aiiii!

Bob Shaw

We seem to keep drifting back to HPL on this site for some reason; but Neil Gaiman actually ghost-wrote Cthulhu's autobiography a few years ago. (It seems the poor lad's bad behavior can be largely ascribed to a traumatic family life, what with Mother eating Father and then getting eaten by Cthulhu himself. Something like that tends to leave a mark on a fellow.)

Bruce: "Something like that tends to leave a mark on a fellow."

A tooth-mark.

Phil

As long as noone tries to pronounce MSL instead of saying "Em Ess Ell". With MER, we got "Mear" (rhymes with "hear"). With MSL, some of the possibilities are Measle and Missile.

If one reads the complete definition for 'avatar' in the dictionary, then one
finds that it is a perfectly normal word in the English language which refers
to a proxy, or an agent, in place of another person. My attention was drawn
to that word when James Cameron used it in an excellent speech, about
Exploration, that he presented on February 1, 2005 at the 1st Space Exploration
Conference.

The presentation archive can be found here.

http://exploration.nasa.gov/documents/1ste...conference.html


I am not about to stop using a perfectly fine English word, just because
it may originally have been derived from another culture. I stand by my
Avatar 1 and 2 suggestion.


Another Phil

Oh - I know avatar means something else - but it also means something very specific to a particular culture. If I'm honest, I think 'Avatar' sounds just a bit silly, seing as most internet-aware people will think "Avatar, you mean that picture of Donald Duck I use for that forum I post in?" - it doesnt suggest exploration or discovery in any way.

Explorer, Ranger, Mariner, Voyager, Pioneer, Surveyor.....those are the great spacecraft names of our time - but it's hard to think of something to match them. Global Surveyor, Odyssey, Express, Exploration Rover, Pathfinder, Recon Orbiter...apart from Odyssey, they are all descriptive and simple.

Now - with those as a background, 'Avatar' or 'Mars Avatar' just sounds plain wierd.

Doug

When the VOIR mission was in development (Venus Orbiting Imaging Radar), before cancellation and reincarnation as Magellan (different antenna, elliptical orbit, no atmospheric science instruments), I was referring it as Project Voyeur: To Strip the Veils of Venus. (In somewhat less polite and somewhat more politically incorrect company!)

Doug:

I'd think that 'Mars Avatar; or 'Lunar Avatar' would be fine for a serious telepresence project, but not much else... ... something like a robot operated from close orbit, or a lander, that sort of thing.

Bob Shaw

So you must like Phil's first suggestion, Prospector. I like that better than Avatar, but one thing's for sure: If MSL lives up to the standard set by the MERs, we will grow fond of its name, no matter what it is. Anyway, I'll throw a name into the pot: MSL Quest.

Prospector's been done - I know it was Lunar...but still.

Avatar could work for some live telepresence stuff, but I still think it just sounds a bit wierd.

Doug

Doug:

Prospector was the cancelled (very early on) mobile follow-on to Surveyor, too... ...still, we got Voyager out of Voyager!

Bob Shaw

Still, this all brings up some intersting attitudes. For example, what's wrong with using *Christian* deities and icons for naming spacecraft? Why not name Mars Sample Return 'Lazarus,' for example -- trying to bring something back from the dead? Or why not name probes after the disciples? Or even Jesus himself?

Because a lot of Christians without senses of humor would get upset, that's why... and because some non-Christians would get upset that NASA was (in thier eyes) lining up behind one and only one religion.

Just for example, on Apollo 15, there was a string of four craters that served as an "arrow" to point Dave Scott to his landing point. He originally named these craters Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Under some pressure from NASA HQ, he re-named the final crater Index, just so the religious reference would be diluted and no one could complain.

I wouldn't bet that one of the Asian countries might not use the Christian pantheon for spacecraft names at some point, though. I had a friend who visited Japan several years ago, and aboard one of their commuter trains was a picture of Jesus Christ, holding an umbrella. My friend's guide told him the writing under the image said "The honorable Jesus Christ asks you all to take your umbrellas with you as you leave the train," to which another friend assigned a more colloquial translation -- "Jesus Christ, fellas, don't forget your umbrellas!" If the Tokyo city managers think that Jesus is a good symbol to use for reminding people about their umbrellas, it's not out of the question that the Japanese might, in the future, name a space probe Jesus... and can you imagine how bent out of shape some of the American fundamentalist Christians could get about *that*?

-the other Doug

Imagine if NASA were to put a military package into Earth orbit named "The End Times"?