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Unmanned Spaceflight.com > Mars & Missions > Past and Future > MER > Spirit
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RoverDriver
QUOTE (HughFromAlice @ Jun 5 2009, 06:53 PM) *
...
I read somewhere that a fair amount of data was lost because the test bed server wasn't backed up that frequently. I wonder if lack of data is contributing to the delay in testing? Now, something as basic as that would be doubly frustrating.
...


One of the NFS servers that was holding files and scripts necessary for booting the SSTB had a disk failure. A cooling fan stopped working and the disk array is housed in a room where rarely anyone walks into. The disk array also contained an archive of all the activities and results from all tests run in the testbed. The most recent backup was from April 30th and about two weeks of reports have been unfortunately lost. Apparently the automated process that did the linear backup hang and no incremental backup process was started. There's only a handful of FLTOPS Sysadmins and they are swamped with requests and these things do happen.

There are two things I learned about backups:

1) you need to do backups!
2) you need to try and restore your backups!

Paolo
brellis
QUOTE (RoverDriver @ Jun 5 2009, 09:22 PM) *
1) you need to do backups!
2) you need to try and restore your backups!

Paolo



I know that so very well. For the past 27 years, I've been composing music on various computer systems. When the stuff is working, you don't think about even backing it up, let alone restoring. I just restored an old track from a 21 year-old DAT. The spec on the tape was 7 years; it's only been three times that long -- our precious Rovers have lasted many times longer than their 90-day specs!!
hendric
Paolo,
Yes, unfortunately most have to learn those two lessons the hard way. It could be worse, as the State of Alaska found out a while back:

http://www.enterprisestorageforum.com/cont...cle.php/3667101

Also, rule number 3:

3. Do not treat a mirror as a backup if you're using it as a server:

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/15/0138204

And rule 4:

4. Any backup not off-site is not a backup (See Katrina for details on that one)
alan
QUOTE (briv1016 @ Jun 5 2009, 10:42 PM) *
I'm content waiting for the Calypso Pan to be finished. Does anyone know how many part there are going to be total?

It takes 27 pancam images to cover 360 degrees. So far Spirit has taken 21 columns by 3 rows as of sol 1927 plus a 5x2 covering the area in front of the rover, leaving 6 columns left plus any additional images needed to fill the gaps between the 27x3 and the deck pan. Not all of this has been transmitted yet and some needs to be retransmitted due to lost data.
BrianL
Does the current healthy power situation (assuming the panels stay clean) mean that Spirit could survive winter without being on a slope (Heaven forbid, like where she is)?
climber
Does anyone know if this season sandstorm is supposed to be over or not?
Thanks
alan
The solstice was only two weeks ago, so probably not yet
RoverDriver
QUOTE (BrianL @ Jun 5 2009, 10:56 PM) *
Does the current healthy power situation (assuming the panels stay clean) mean that Spirit could survive winter without being on a slope (Heaven forbid, like where she is)?



Yes!


QUOTE (alan @ Jun 6 2009, 03:59 AM) *
The solstice was only two weeks ago, so probably not yet


This is also correct.

Paolo
silylene
If all else fails, can the robotic manipulator arm be pressed against the soil to lift up and leverage Spirit out of its wheel rut holes? Is it strong enough?

It seems to me that the tops of the modules at the end of the arm arm form a flat and rather broad surface area, and if the arm were placed top down against the soil, this should be good enough to be stable, and and the wide surface area should prevent the arm from sinking in as it lifts. Is the arm strong enough to lift Spirit up and sideways?

I know this is a lost-resort proposal, and it would likely contaminate the cameras/instruments at the end of the robot arm with soil...but if all other manuvers fail, could this be considered ?

climber
That's a Curious solution!
I guess this one will get unstucked using an Atlas 5 in 2011... smile.gif
helvick
Silylene - I appreciate that this is now a long thread but this has been discussed and responded to more than once. Search back through RoverDriver's responses - in short yes this has been thought of however if the arm is to be used for any mechanical purpose it will be a very last ditch exercise as the risks to it are great, also the arm cannot be controlled at the same time as the wheels so it can't be used to provide direct additional force during any drive attempts.

More importantly though - that's the wrong rover dude, as Climber indicated it wont be on Mars for quite some time.
RoverDriver
At least Julian, the 7YO, suggested something else and got the rover right! ;-)

Paolo
briv1016
Ok, who broke the tracking site? ; )
Stu
Some interesting MIs from Sol 1925...

http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/a...QP2956M2M1.HTML

What's going on here then..?

Click to view attachment

RoverDriver
QUOTE (Stu @ Jun 7 2009, 03:13 AM) *
Some interesting MIs from Sol 1925...
...


Stu, one of the things we wanted to measure is the compressibility. In order to find the exact position of the surface we typically use the MB contact plate which has a ~1cm hole in it. This MI shows the noseprint of the MB contact plate and how much it compressed the material.

Paolo
dvandorn
Thanks, Paolo -- I was thinking this looked like what you'd get if you ran the RAT into the soil. Good to know it's just the MI noseplate.

-the other Doug
Stu
Thanks Paolo. I was pretty sure something had been pressed into the dirt, just not sure what.

Either that or Spirit had found some yeti droppings... laugh.gif
RoverDriver
Mossbauer, not Microscopic Imager. I don't think anyone would like to slam the MI lens in sand! ;-)
This picture shows the shape of the MB contact plate: http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/image/mer_mars_moss.jpg

Paolo
dvandorn
Ooops -- the typo fairies strike again! (I meant to type MB, I really did... smile.gif )

-the other Doug
Oersted
Ouch, little snippet in this short web movie feature showing wheels spinning helplessly, got a bit to close to reality there...

http://www.space.com/common/media/show/pla..._id=28&ep=8
CosmicRocker
Ha! Did you see the "MDOT" sign near the beginning of that clip? laugh.gif
Deimos
QUOTE (climber @ Jun 6 2009, 10:51 AM) *
Does anyone know if this season sandstorm is supposed to be over or not?
Thanks

Optical depth was 3, one mars year ago today (and Opportunity was shut down with an even higher opacity). The last dust storm of the season is usually before Ls 300, about 1.5 months from now.
Deimos
QUOTE (briv1016 @ Jun 6 2009, 04:42 AM) *
I'm content waiting for the Calypso Pan to be finished. Does anyone know how many part there are going to be total?

I think part 14 is set for 1931, and 15-16 of 16 is likely for 1932. And the rover has almost 100 Mb still unsent from parts 10-13.
alan
I've been seeing images show up recently which look like the data was scrambled, for example like this one:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all...DOP2284L7M1.JPG

What is causing this? Is it related to the orientation Spirit is stuck in?
RoverDriver
QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Jun 8 2009, 06:48 AM) *
Ha! Did you see the "MDOT" sign near the beginning of that clip? laugh.gif



So? Where do you think we get our Martian Drivers License? At the Martian Department Of Transportation!

Paolo
Syrinx
QUOTE (alan @ Jun 8 2009, 12:24 PM) *
I've been seeing images show up recently which look like the data was scrambled, for example like this one:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all...DOP2284L7M1.JPG

What is causing this? Is it related to the orientation Spirit is stuck in?

Looks like the Monet lens was accidentally enabled.
ilbasso
I think someone patched the screen door poorly!
Floyd
This is one of three or four ways corrupted data appear--not uncommon. I think the textures come from trying to unpack slightly corrupt compressed data.

RoverDriver
Shoot! Someone tripped on the camera cable in Sound Stage 25 again! I told them to put some duct tape on it. Thanks for point me to it. I will make some phone calls.

Paolo
nprev
Oh, great...the secret is out! rolleyes.gif

You're in a good mood, Paolo...things going well, perhaps...? cool.gif
CosmicRocker
QUOTE (RoverDriver @ Jun 8 2009, 02:14 PM) *
... Where do you think we get our Martian Drivers License? ...
Paolo: For the mission trivia fans around here, can you tell us the story about the origin of that MDOT sign?
RoverDriver
QUOTE (nprev @ Jun 8 2009, 09:32 PM) *
Oh, great...the secret is out! rolleyes.gif

You're in a good mood, Paolo...things going well, perhaps...? cool.gif


No, not really. On MER-A we still do not have the testing rig set up. I tried to see if I could bring in some external labor to speed things up, but was said no. It would have been quite an experience. On MER-B the drive faulted out. We got some of the easy testing done, and possibly as early as Wednesday we will resume LM diagnostics with larger wheel motion. As I see it I believe we will not be able to begin driving Spirit on Mars before middle of July.

Paolo
BrianL
QUOTE (RoverDriver @ Jun 9 2009, 12:50 AM) *
As I see it I believe we will not be able to begin driving on Mars before middle of July.


That's quite a long layover for Opportunity. Anything going on, other than wheel resting and route planning?
RoverDriver
QUOTE (BrianL @ Jun 9 2009, 04:55 AM) *
That's quite a long layover for Opportunity. Anything going on, other than wheel resting and route planning?


I thought this was a SPIRIT thread! My comment was relative to Spirit, not Opportunity.

Paolo
Floyd
Paolo--In your last post you refered to both MerA and MerB--that could be part of the mix up. And for those of us who have unlinked letters and names MerA = Opportunity and MerB = Spirit--or the other way round--Didn't MerB land first??? All lost in the dust storms in my brain.
centsworth_II
QUOTE (Floyd @ Jun 9 2009, 09:24 AM) *
...or the other way round...

I love NASA and all, but it's these kinds of things that lead to avoidable mistakes.

Naming of Spirit and Opportunity
"The Spirit and Opportunity rovers were named through a student essay competition.... Prior to this, during the development and building of the rovers, they were known as MER-1 (Opportunity) and MER-2 (Spirit). Internally NASA also uses the mission designations MER-A (Spirit) and MER-B (Opportunity) based on the order of landing on Mars (Spirit first then Opportunity)."
RoverDriver
QUOTE (Floyd @ Jun 9 2009, 05:24 AM) *
Paolo--In your last post you refered to both MerA and MerB--that could be part of the mix up. And for those of us who have unlinked letters and names MerA = Opportunity and MerB = Spirit--or the other way round--Didn't MerB land first??? All lost in the dust storms in my brain.


MER-A=Spirit=MER 2
MER-B=Opportunity= MER 1

Sorry for the confusion.

Paolo
Deimos
Following conventions leads to mistakes among those not familiar with the conventions, but reduces them among those who are. The tradition of numbering space vehicles as they are built and lettering them as they fly is reasonably common, while not at all universal. See, for instance, the GOES satellites. Assembly started on MER-1 first. By plan, MER-2 passed -1 during assembly and was launched first, becoming MER-A. As -2 was being readied for launch on the -A launch vehicle, "Spirit" and "Opportunity" were attached (as SS said at the time, "I'm not sure which one is which"). It took quite a while for those to catch on internally, and I still have occasion to refer to the numbers and the letters in the course of operations (letters much more commonly)--but the distinction is the hardware vs. the mission. (And this leaves out the whole red rover/blue rover distinction that made the first 4 months much easier, despite the expectation that multiple designations makes it harder.)

Note that if there had been an incident (see NOAA N') during ATLO, the hardware to mission mapping would have changed. Imagine how confusing all the documentation could have become if there had not been a hardware/mission distinction.
fredk
The sol 1930 sunset pancam sequence shows some very subtle clouds, the first we've seen in quite a while I think. Eg,
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all...DQP2660R4M1.JPG
RoverDriver
During the investigation of this anomaly there are intense moments but also amusing ones. I want to share one with you. As soil simulant we are settling on a mix of diatomaceous earth and clay. Apparently there is a "food grade" DE used to deworm animals and as insecticide (among other things). Today we drove down to Lake Elsinore where there is a facility that sells food grade DE in bulk to get a small sample for testing.

Unfortunately I do not have pictures: the transaction of purchasing a 50lb bag of fine white powder happened at a gas station near a freeway exit.

Paolo
BrianL
QUOTE (Floyd @ Jun 9 2009, 08:24 AM) *
Paolo--In your last post you refered to both MerA and MerB--that could be part of the mix up.


Yes, that was the mix-up for me. That, and the last sentence did not originally refer to Spirit by name, so it sounded like both rovers had been put into stationary mode for the next month. Well, good that we got that clarified, now we can all have a beer and relax.
ElkGroveDan
QUOTE (RoverDriver @ Jun 9 2009, 04:47 PM) *
Apparently there is a "food grade" DE used to deworm animals and as insecticide (among other things). Scott Maxwell, kim Lichtenberg and I hopped on a car and drove down to Lake Elsinore where there is a facility that sells food grade DE in bulk to get a small sample for testing.


Dumb question here, but why couldn't you just pick up some pool-grade DE at your local Leslie's Pool supply in Pasadena?
RoverDriver
QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ Jun 9 2009, 08:24 PM) *
Dumb question here, but why couldn't you just pick up some pool-grade DE at your local Leslie's Pool supply in Pasadena?


That's what we used for Purgatory and what we have been using for preliminary testing (from Leslie's!). Pool grade DE can cause silicosis. Food grade apparently not. Also, we need about 3000lb of it.

Paolo
nprev
QUOTE (RoverDriver @ Jun 9 2009, 05:47 PM) *
Unfortunately I do not have pictures: the transaction of purchasing a 50lb bag of fine white powder happened at a gas station near a freeway exit.

Paolo


Yeah, I used to see that all the time when I lived in downtown LA, but the bags looked a lot smaller... rolleyes.gif

Apparently, the key difference between food-grade DE & the swimming pool variety is that the latter has been heat-treated, causing the silica to become crystalline instead of amorphous. That would explain the inhalation hazard. I wonder if that makes a significant difference in the material's gross physical properties as well?
ElkGroveDan
QUOTE (RoverDriver @ Jun 9 2009, 09:16 PM) *
That's what we used for Purgatory and what we have been using for preliminary testing (from Leslie's!).

You can take the "dude" out of Southern California, but you can't take Southern California out of the dude.
Steve Holtam
Another Mars Rover Is Stuck ... in California
By Andrea Thompson
"We suspect it's going to take a long time to get out of here," Callas said.

SOURCE LINK

Admin: The link to the article is sufficient. Thanks.
mhoward
Speaking of which, the latest MER Update has some footage of the early testing, and Paolo is seen briefly smile.gif ... Also has some interpretation of the MI underbelly view which I was not aware of: may be a rock wedged against the left middle wheel?
fredk
The rock against the LM wheel has been mentioned before, see this post.
mhoward
QUOTE (fredk @ Jun 10 2009, 09:52 AM) *
The rock against the LM wheel has been mentioned before, see this post.


I stand corrected. However the vid does a better job of pointing it out.
stewjack
QUOTE (mhoward @ Jun 10 2009, 01:06 PM) *
However the vid does a better job of pointing it out.


Yes, I agree. They outline both the rock and the wheel! If you want to view it clearly you can download a 34 mb 640 by 480 version using the following link.
Its a m4v file. Quicktime or VLC. should play it.

http://jpl.nasa.gov/video/download.php?fil...90609-640-i.m4v

Jack
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