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Unmanned Spaceflight.com > Earth & Moon > Lunar Exploration > LRO & LCROSS
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djellison
Thought this deserved a new thread- we can't talk about EVERY LRO target in the one thread smile.gif

I made a mistake in this one - I didn't include the thruster plume guards. My MER/MPF simulation for HiRISE seemed to come out about right - so fingers crossed that this will be there or there abouts as well. Still in a comissioning phase, something of a slant angle - I'd expect approx 1.5m/pixel if it's at the 120km figure mentioned earlier.
Click to view attachment
Phil Stooke
First glimpse...:

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=1338

(bottom of the page)

Phil
Paolo
LRO Sees Apollo Landing Sites
I had been expecting something better...
Phil Stooke
And more:

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/mult...pollosites.html

(same as above) - remember the instrument's still being calibrated and the final orbit will be half the height, or even less.

Phil
NGC3314
Are those LRV tracks from Apollo 17? They look about right for one of the EVAs, headed east and then curving north around the crater, but I can't put my mouse on a large-enough scale traverse map to be sure that's the right place.
Stu
Expected better? Sorry there are no individual footprints to be seen for you...! rolleyes.gif

These are AMAZING pictures when you think of what they represent. Better will follow. Let's enjoy these for now! :-)
Tubo
Hello everybody!

Finally the images arrived!

Do you think we could expect any greater resolution, maybe through the lroc image browser?
Paolo
QUOTE (Stu @ Jul 17 2009, 06:27 PM) *
Better will follow. Let's enjoy these for now! :-)


yes of course! I just expected to see for example rovers and instruments...
FordPrefect
Wow, this is so cool!

I don't know, I suspect the LRV of Apollo 17 should be a bit less south, it was finally parked about 154 meters east of the LM. My guess yet:
djellison
I was expecting a bit better. You can see the seismometer's western solar array just about. It's not map-projected, and calibration hasn't kicked in to fix that interlacing-look to the pictures.

MUCH better is to come - that's for sure.

This is roughly with the same illumination.
djellison
QUOTE (Tubo @ Jul 17 2009, 05:29 PM) *
Do you think we could expect any greater resolution, maybe through the lroc image browser?


No. These thumbnails are at full resolution. We have to wait for the spacecraft to get into its final orbit before we go from these 1.2-ish m/pixel images to 50cm/pixel.
Phil Stooke
Apollo 15 - certainly see the tracks all around ALSEP.

Phil

Click to view attachment
Phil Stooke
Fordprefect - no, Geophone rock is casting the shadow just above left of your rock.

Phil
nprev
It'll get better, but for now I'm really happy just to see these old friends from my youth again. smile.gif

I'm only disappointed that they haven't snapped A12 & Surveyor 3 yet, but apparently that's gonna happen in a few weeks.
Phil Stooke
Here's Apollo 17, first quick look.

Phil

Click to view attachment

The LRV location is a bit vague... is it possible it's the object with a shadow just above my 'LRV' text?
Ian R
LRO view of Apollo 15 compared to mosaic made from ascent footage - the white arrow points to a piece of the descent stage insulation that was blown off during liftoff.

Click to view attachment
Tubo
So far it seems that the Apollo 14 Landing site shot has got the greatest resolution, aren't the MET tracks the ones visible?
djellison
A combination of shuffling astronauts and dragged met.
Phil Stooke
Now you can zoomify the whole images at the LROC site - here's the Apollo 17 Station 6 boulder:

Click to view attachment

(Zoomify uses a compressed image so there are artifacts)

Phil
Paul Fjeld
YeeHAHHH!!

Great stuff! I make out the '11 site LM at about 200 pixels, some of the others, slightly less. You can clearly see the nozzle shadow going to the bulk of the stage with the plume deflectors very light. I'm trying to convince myself I see the flag - more to study. And they almost got all the sites! Really look forward to the best stuff to come - oh, yah... and all the new places to land and explore.
Phil Stooke
The north end of the Apollo 11 image came within about 6 km of the Surveyor 5 site - so close...

(PS - how am I supposed to get any work done?)

Phil
Ian R
Apollo 17 ascent and LRO comparision:

Click to view attachment
FordPrefect
Yes Phil, I concur with the Geophone rock shadow! smile.gif

I know this is a wild guess for the Apollo 14 image, but could this be the...
Ian R
Apollo 11 ascent and LRO comparison:

Click to view attachment
belleraphon1
QUOTE (Tubo @ Jul 17 2009, 12:08 PM) *
So far it seems that the Apollo 14 Landing site shot has got the greatest resolution, aren't the MET tracks the ones visible?


Luv It!

Craig
Ian R
Apollo 16 ascent footage frame / LRO comparison:

Click to view attachment

Curiously, the LRV itself isn't visible, although the shadow it casts towards the east certainly is.
Paul Fjeld
QUOTE (FordPrefect)
I know this is a wild guess for the Apollo 14 image, but could this be the...
Flag shadow?

Or maybe the big S-band deployable antenna...
jmknapp
Wow. LRO has really come out of the gate hitting on all cylinders. Very evocative shots.
Tubo
QUOTE
Or maybe the big S-band deployable antenna...


I would go for the antenna too, even though it wouldn't cast a so distinct shadow...

Do you think the nylon of the flag would survive 40 years up there?
Ian R
Apollo 14 ascent / LRO comparison - the black arrow in both images is pointing toward Turtle Rock:

Click to view attachment
Ian R
Apollo 11 descent footage frame compared to LRO view. Both have been oriented so that west is 'up':

Click to view attachment
Ian R
Probable locations of LRVs (definite in the case of Apollo 16):

Click to view attachment
Paul Fjeld
The main NASA LRO site has larger views centered around the landing sites:

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/mult...pollosites.html

This one, from '11:

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/369440m...pollo11_lrg.jpg

...really shows West crater and those big boulders Armstrong decided against landing next to.
FordPrefect
QUOTE (Paul Fjeld @ Jul 17 2009, 07:57 PM) *
Or maybe the big S-band deployable antenna...


QUOTE (Tubo @ Jul 17 2009, 08:05 PM) *
I would go for the antenna too, even though it wouldn't cast a so distinct shadow...

Do you think the nylon of the flag would survive 40 years up there?


Maybe. One should remember though that the S-Band antenna blew over during the hot-fire jets check shortly prior lift-off. MET shadow?
Paul Fjeld
Even on its side, its bigger than the MET...


QUOTE (Ian R)
Probable locations of LRVs (definite in the case of Apollo 16):

I think you nailed 'em.
Tubo
QUOTE (FordPrefect @ Jul 17 2009, 08:06 PM) *
Maybe. One should remember though that the S-Band antenna blew over during the hot-fire jets check shortly prior lift-off. MET shadow?


Yes, let's wait for higher res images.
Guys, I'm so excited with these yet!
Paul Fjeld
Anybody else having trouble finding the landing sites from the Zoomify big pictures on the LROC site? Man! I keep scrolling, hunting, but I can't find anything yet. Maybe I'm too excited. I'm using the larger scale maps from Lunar Orbiter for context, putting the image in Lat/Long focus around the published location for the site, and still no use... I thought I had a good eye! If anybody can give me a rough location on the big strip for Apollo 14, I would be much obliged.
Phil Stooke
Look on the extreme right side - Triplet crater only just makes it onto the image.

Phil
Paul Fjeld
Thanks! Maybe an eighth of the image height above the center.

I was scanning for Cone crater and Triplet but, of course, no Cone crater. We'll have to look for the later shots to see exactly where Al and Ed ended up before turning back down the mountain without that view...
jmknapp
QUOTE (Ian R @ Jul 17 2009, 02:31 PM) *
Probable locations of LRVs (definite in the case of Apollo 16):


I see a lot of parking tickets under the wiper.
belleraphon1
QUOTE (Paul Fjeld @ Jul 17 2009, 03:18 PM) *
Thanks! Maybe an eighth of the image height above the center.

I was scanning for Cone crater and Triplet but, of course, no Cone crater. We'll have to look for the later shots to see exactly where Al and Ed ended up before turning back down the mountain without that view...


Yeah... I finally found it. Not easy. What clued me in was a comment from the teleconference that Cone Crater was out of view on the image track to the east. So I scrolled up the right side of the image until I saw Triplet.

Interesting that we can see the tracks from EVA 1 but I see nothing to the east for EVA 2. I assume the lighting might have something to do with it, or it is because EVA 1 was more scuffed up and traveled?

Can't wait for the highr res including the Cone crater traverse.

Craig
belleraphon1
Ok... I just submitted post #41 and now I think I do see a very faint track to the east on the Apollo 14 image.

Craig
dilo
Sirs, I am speechless, first due to these LRO images (and perfect timing of release) and second for the great identification effort you're doing...
Is like to see man on the moon for the second time! biggrin.gif
dvandorn
Seems strange to see the sites with sun from the west, though. Never saw these sites in afternoon sun before!

I am *really* looking forward to the pics that will come down from the science orbit!

-the other Doug
PDP8E
Here is an attempt to enhance the immediate Apollo 11 site from LROC
The striping of the camera system is apparent; just pushing noise around at this altitude and with no calibration

Click to view attachment

Cheers
charborob
Here's an interesting view: a crop of the Apollo 16 image showing North Ray crater and House Rock (in the center of the image). For me, one of the highlights of the whole Apollo expeditions.
jmknapp
Maybe they'll wait until they get even closer to look in earnest, but one of the science goals of reimaging the sites also photographed at close range by the Apollo cameras is to look for evidence of fresh impacts, to get a handle on how often they occur & quantify the risk to a moon base.
ElkGroveDan
QUOTE (jmknapp @ Jul 17 2009, 04:47 PM) *
one of the science goals of reimaging the sites also photographed at close range by the Apollo cameras is to look for evidence of fresh impacts,

Imagine the reaction after all this talk about historical preservation, if we finally got a look at the A11 site and it was occupied by a large fresh new crater and nothing else. Fortunately that didn't happen (yet).
nprev
One of my nightmares, too.

Fortunately, I'm optimistic that the meter-thick transparent artificial diamond dome over the entire site will be completed on schedule by the fourth quarter of fiscal year 2329... rolleyes.gif

EDIT: It is my sad duty to report the passing today of legendary newsman Walter Cronkite, who was iconic to US viewers as the face of TV coverage for the Apollo 11 flight. How bitterly ironic. sad.gif
jekbradbury
Another attempt on the A11 image, using GIMP's Destripe filter and two runs of the NEDI upscaling algorithm:
Click to view attachment
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