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mhoward
This thread is for discussion, questions, issues with Midnight Mars Browser. Also to announce it in case anyone missed it: http://midnightmarsbrowser.blogspot.com. Oh, and any suggestions for future enhancements too, thanks.
TheChemist
Mike thanks for this very useful application.
It works like a charm on a WinMe machine using Java 2 (v1.5.0) from Sun.
lyford
This is MOST awesome - !!!!

Any idea how many gigs the ENTIRE set is so far, before I try to download the whole mission and kill my laptop?
mhoward
QUOTE (lyford @ Feb 11 2005, 04:01 PM)
Any idea how many gigs the ENTIRE set is so far, before I try to download the whole mission and kill my laptop?

TheChemist, you might be the first to test it on Java 1.5, I'm glad it works! I just haven't had time to update (and Apple doesn't support it yet, that I know of).

lyford, according to Windows Explorer on my Windows laptop, where I have a complete set, the raw images currently weigh in at 5.08 GB on disk. I believe the generated images add roughly another 2 GB but I can give you a more exact number once I've regenerated them on my system.
MizarKey
I'm trying to use if from work...I'm on an XP machine running Java 1.4. I keep getting:

Scanning http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/forward_hazcam/
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect; retrying...
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect; retrying...
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect; retrying...
Tried 4 times; terminating.

We do have a 'border manager' proxie that requires a signon (I was signed on), but there may be some other security issue...doh!

I'll try from home later...

Eric P / MizarKey
lyford
mhoward
I don't have 10 free gigs on my laptop - so I will have to run it at home - tried last night using OS X with Java 1.42 (methinks) and it ran fine. Only grabbed Oppy's files from 2005, but I can't wait to turn that sucka on overnight and get the whole set!
DEChengst
I'm syncing the entire dataset at the moment rolleyes.gif
mhoward
QUOTE (MizarKey @ Feb 11 2005, 05:56 PM)
I'm trying to use if from work...I'm on an XP machine running Java 1.4. I keep getting:

Scanning http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/forward_hazcam/
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect; retrying...
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect; retrying...
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect; retrying...
Tried 4 times; terminating.

We do have a 'border manager' proxie that requires a signon (I was signed on), but there may be some other security issue...doh!

I'll try from home later...

Eric P / MizarKey

That's interesting... I'm guessing it must be something to do with the proxy. I'm wondering if you can get to qt.exploratorium.edu in IE and if so if there's some special settings in IE for the proxie. Maybe there's something I'd have to do in the MMB connection attempt to specify the proxy, I'll have to see what I can find out about it.
Fred
Thanks so much mhoward for making this available!

Is there a way to download pics from just a certain day or set of days in the past? I'd like to use this on the earlier images, but I don't want to download the entire 5 gig set. If there's not a way to do this, this would be my suggestion for an improvement.

Otherwise, it's perfect biggrin.gif
mhoward
QUOTE (Fred @ Feb 11 2005, 09:46 PM)
Thanks so much mhoward for making this available!

Is there a way to download pics from just a certain day or set of days in the past? I'd like to use this on the earlier images, but I don't want to download the entire 5 gig set. If there's not a way to do this, this would be my suggestion for an improvement.

Otherwise, it's perfect biggrin.gif

That shouldn't be too hard... I'll look into it. Thanks!
MizarKey
QUOTE (mhoward @ Feb 11 2005, 12:58 PM)
QUOTE (MizarKey @ Feb 11 2005, 05:56 PM)
I'm trying to use if from work...I'm on an XP machine running Java 1.4.  I keep getting:

Scanning http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/forward_hazcam/
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect; retrying...
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect; retrying...
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect; retrying...
Tried 4 times; terminating.

We do have a 'border manager' proxie that requires a signon (I was signed on), but there may be some other security issue...doh!

I'll try from home later...

Eric P / MizarKey

That's interesting... I'm guessing it must be something to do with the proxy. I'm wondering if you can get to qt.exploratorium.edu in IE and if so if there's some special settings in IE for the proxie. Maybe there's something I'd have to do in the MMB connection attempt to specify the proxy, I'll have to see what I can find out about it.

You don't need to tweak it for me...probably just get me in trouble at work anyway... biggrin.gif

I am interested in modifying the anaglyph setting, how did you determine the default?

Also, I'd be interested in being able to regenerate anaglyphs after modifying the settings - without redownloading the raw images and with writing over the previously generated images.

It's an excellent program and I thank you deeply!

Eric P / MizarKey
mhoward
>I am interested in modifying the anaglyph setting, how did you determine the default?

The defaults are just ones that I arrived at over a long period of looking at the images and tweaking them every now and then. I can't really see the 3D effect very well unless it's mostly behind the screen plane. With the settings I tried to put most of the image behind the screen plane for the majority of images, without going farther than I had to. Obviously it's not optimal for every image, and different settings might work better for other people. One feature I have in mind is a "Make Anaglyph..." option to make individual anaglyphs with different settings, especially for shots at very close range, like down at the rover itself.

>Also, I'd be interested in being able to regenerate anaglyphs after modifying the
> settings - without redownloading the raw images and with writing over the previously
>generated images.

I think you can do this: select "Advanced Image Update", uncheck "Download raw images", uncheck "Generate false-color images" but leave "Generate anaglyphs" checked, and in the generate images popup choose "force generate all images". That will overwrite the existing generated anaglyphs.

P.S. Another trick is to just delete the ones you want to replace, and select "fill in missing images" in the generate images popup menu.
MizarKey
QUOTE (mhoward @ Feb 11 2005, 04:09 PM)
>Also, I'd be interested in being able to regenerate anaglyphs after modifying the
> settings - without redownloading the raw images and with writing over the previously
>generated images.

I think you can do this: select "Advanced Image Update", uncheck "Download raw images", uncheck "Generate false-color images" but leave "Generate anaglyphs" checked, and in the generate images popup choose "force generate all images". That will overwrite the existing generated anaglyphs.

Your suggestion above worked perfectly.

Also, I changed the anaglyph settings to:
Hazcam 0.035
Navcam 0.06
Pancam 0.02

This improved the 3d clarity tremendously. It's so cool to watch the images as they're created. The trench by Oppy was especially cool...I may have to make a 3d animation of it - all thanks to your program.

You really have done us all a great service Michael with this program!

Eric P / MizarKey
Nix
Thank you so much! Your efforts take away the only frustration I have with MER; the downloads..
Great software!!!
Bubbinski
I've been lurking on these boards for a few weeks....I just wanted to say "hi" and say that the Midnight Mars Browser ROCKS! I've fully updated the image sets from both rovers and have enjoyed seeing the slide shows. Is there any way to save a slide show into .mov or .mpg format yet?

Bubbinski (just an ordinary guy who is a "space cadet")
MizarKey
Another 'wish' feature...ability to specify a single day to download, not just a 'from' date...so I can pick just one day (would have made it much easier to get the March 11 Oppy images of the Deimos eclispse...)

Still, I love the program -

Eric P / MizarKey
mhoward
> Is there any way to save a slide show into .mov or .mpg format yet?

Not yet, but it's something I've been working on occassionally, see here:
http://homepage.mac.com/michaelhoward/rovermovies/

> Another 'wish' feature...ability to specify a single day to download, not just a 'from' date...so I can pick just one day (would have made it much easier to get the March 11 Oppy images of the Deimos eclispse...)

This'll be in v1.0.1

Mike
MizarKey
I've attached one of the anaglyphs...apparently two non matching frames got put together...hope it helps debug...

Eric P / MizarKey
mhoward
QUOTE (MizarKey @ Feb 13 2005, 12:11 AM)
I've attached one of the anaglyphs...apparently two non matching frames got put together...hope it helps debug...

Eric P / MizarKey

Unfortunately it's difficult to match pancam images based on only the information contained in the filenames. The method I came up with is only about 98% reliable; you'll see some strange matches sometimes if they do anything a little different with the image sequencing. I don't think there's much I can do to fix it right now. I figured ~98% correct was better than nothing.

Similar with the true-color possibility somebody asked about earlier: there's only so much you can do automatically without the full data. Anyway, I'm not that much of an imaging expert yet.

Thanks for bringing it up, though; I probably should mention that in the documentation, just so people know what to expect.

Mike
Bubbinski
Thanks Mike for the link - I checked out the Spirit 3d drive movie and it was very nice.

Bubbinski the space cadet
Nix
My wife is also very happy I went sleeping with her last night instead of my usual searching for interesting stuf and downloading between 23000 and 0200!
I came at the computer this morning; about 5000 images and hundreds of anaglyphs and false-color images! Very nice.. biggrin.gif laugh.gif
I find the generated images very interesting for selecting those that are good for making anaglyph pans. I use stereophotomaker in the same way; I still make the stereo images and color images in PS for the freedom it gives but this kind of software makes it easy and less time-consuming for selecting the images.
Thanks again.
Now, I am very greatful but I was wondering; would it be equally possible for adjusting your software for the Analyst website (12-bit imagery) ?
The analyst website has another interface so I can imagine it's not that simple or straightforward to do but, I don't know, I'm not a programmer.
Thank you.
Deeman
What a great and usefull application !! Thanks for that !! Save`s a lot a time.
Been looking for something like that for quit a long time ! biggrin.gif
mhoward
Glad it's helping out. smile.gif

> would it be equally possible for adjusting your software for the Analyst website (12-bit imagery) ?

I honestly have no idea, I haven't really looked at it enough. That only has imagery and data from earlier in the mission, right? It would be interesting to look at but it's probably not going to happen quickly for me, because of my various time constraints. (You know how it goes... work, family, etc.)
Nix
Yes I understand. A family needs time too, I know. It may be something interesting for the future but at least now we get some sleep biggrin.gif
The data for sol 91-180 is now accessible and till 270 I think is for march.
I browsed through my 'extended' archive for the first time and thought this was a nice one..
Nix
This one shows the pancam/navcam bridge and mast and the low-gain antenna mirrored in a metal part on one of the robotic arm's instruments.
cIclops
mhoward thanks for your Midnight browser !

it ran sweety with no problems on my Win98SE/Java 2 (1.5.0) box


two suggestions ...

o decode the file id so the info can be presented

o release the source so we can all get to work on it :>
Baltic
mhoward, thanks for the program! Great time saver ... and my MER pictures are well sorted for the very first time! biggrin.gif

Tom
DEChengst
I'm having some problems with the software. It downloaded all images fine but it stalls while it's generating the anaglyphs and color images. Opportunity got up to something like sol 41 before it stalled. I cancelled the update and restarted the software. On the next try it checked but didn't download any Opportunity images as it should. However, it didn't continue to generate the anaglyphs and color images as I hoped for. It continued with Spirit and downloaded all the images fine, but again it stalled while generating the anaglyphs and color images:

CODE
2\m\386\2M160631672EFFA2K1P2957M2M1.JPG skipped; same last modified time.
Generating Spirit images
Processing directory C:\Documents and Settings\root\MidnightMarsBrowser\rawImages\2\f\001
  Making anaglyph 2F126468064EDN_an.jpg
Processing directory C:\Documents and Settings\root\MidnightMarsBrowser\rawImages\2\n\001
  Making anaglyph 2N126467960EDN_an.jpg
  Making anaglyph 2N126468200EDN_an.jpg
.
.
.
Processing directory C:\Documents and Settings\root\MidnightMarsBrowser\rawImages\2\r\001
  Making anaglyph 2R126468012EDN_an.jpg
Processing directory C:\Documents and Settings\root\MidnightMarsBrowser\rawImages\2\p\001
 Making false color image 2P126471307EFF_fcL256.jpg


It just sits there doing nothing :'(
mhoward
QUOTE (DEChengst @ Feb 14 2005, 04:31 PM)
I'm having some problems with the software. It downloaded all images fine but it stalls while it's generating the anaglyphs and color images. Opportunity got up to something like sol 41 before it stalled. I cancelled the update and restarted the software. On the next try it checked but didn't download any Opportunity images as it should. However, it didn't continue to generate the anaglyphs and color images as I hoped for. It continued with Spirit and downloaded all the images fine, but again it stalled while generating the anaglyphs and color images:

CODE
2\m\386\2M160631672EFFA2K1P2957M2M1.JPG skipped; same last modified time.
Generating Spirit images
Processing directory C:\Documents and Settings\root\MidnightMarsBrowser\rawImages\2\f\001
  Making anaglyph 2F126468064EDN_an.jpg
Processing directory C:\Documents and Settings\root\MidnightMarsBrowser\rawImages\2\n\001
  Making anaglyph 2N126467960EDN_an.jpg
  Making anaglyph 2N126468200EDN_an.jpg
.
.
.
Processing directory C:\Documents and Settings\root\MidnightMarsBrowser\rawImages\2\r\001
  Making anaglyph 2R126468012EDN_an.jpg
Processing directory C:\Documents and Settings\root\MidnightMarsBrowser\rawImages\2\p\001
 Making false color image 2P126471307EFF_fcL256.jpg


It just sits there doing nothing :'(

I've noticed that issue recently on OSX after doing big downloads. Are you using OSX? EDIT: Never mind, obviously OSX doesn't have a C: prompt. What version of Java are you using?

For now, quite the program and bring it up again, then to update the images select "Advanced Image Update", uncheck the download checkbox, and select "Fill in missing images" from the generate images popup. That should finish generating the images that didn't get generated. sad.gif
DEChengst
QUOTE (mhoward @ Feb 14 2005, 04:37 PM)
What version of Java are you using?

Version 1.5.0 (build 1.5.0_01-b08) which is the latest version.
alan
Thanks for that program. I now have the entire Spirit set, it took TWO DAYS on my cable modem to download it. A way to pause it inthe middle of a download woud be useful. I think the stall may be an issue with the operating system. It took nearly four hours to construct all the image with the CPU maxed out. (I checked the task manager when I noticed how slow the cursor was moving) I thnk the operating system decided it was in a continuous loop and brought it to a halt. I used the advanced image update like you suggested and it finished it without any trouble.
mhoward
> I thnk the operating system decided it was in a continuous loop and brought it to a halt.

Hmmm. I wonder. I suspect there's some actual problem with program somewhere but it's pretty weird and elusive... I'll take another look for it when I have a chance. I've never noticed it doing daily updates, just the big ones, so I suspect it may be related to memory usage. unsure.gif

Mike
MizarKey
QUOTE (mhoward @ Feb 12 2005, 03:35 PM)
> Is there any way to save a slide show into .mov or .mpg format yet?

Not yet, but it's something I've been working on occassionally, see here:
http://homepage.mac.com/michaelhoward/rovermovies/

> Another 'wish' feature...ability to specify a single day to download, not just a 'from' date...so I can pick just one day (would have made it much easier to get the March 11 Oppy images of the Deimos eclispse...)

This'll be in v1.0.1

Mike

two more wishes for v1.0.1...

1. ability to use dates when reforcing the 'generate fc/an images'. I wanted to try tweaking the Pancam anaglyph settings and only check the last couple of days worth, but it looked through all the folders I had to that point.

2. ability to set a greater than / less than file size, so I can skip the <10k images and go do them all at the same time at a later date (I want to be able to monitor the sun images eventually when I get all of them back to SOL 1.

Also, in the advance settings, I want to add the L0R0 to the anaglyph types (I did add it but it didn't generate any using those images). Do I need to set the 'max anaglyph types' to 2?

I bet you weren't expected such an explosion of requests!

Thanks in advance,

Eric P / MizarKey
cIclops
i'm pleased to report that Midnight browser is still working fine after two sols on my machine. now of course i have even more suggestions:

o zoom in for higher resolution images (and or export to external viewer)

o allow the image filename to be copied (for reference)

o did i mention open sourcing the code so improvements and fixes can be
made quicker?


thanks once again for such a useful tool!
Nix
The program is suddenly stalling on my machine.
Should I get another version of Java?
I does still work, just sometimes it doesn't and I'm getting this;
mhoward
QUOTE (NIX @ Feb 15 2005, 11:34 AM)
The program is suddenly stalling on my machine.
Should I get another version of Java?
I does still work, just sometimes it doesn't and I'm getting this;

Let me take a look at that, see what could be going on. I'll get back to you maybe later today.
mhoward
QUOTE (cIclops @ Feb 15 2005, 09:30 AM)
i'm pleased to report that Midnight browser is still working fine after two sols on my machine. now of course i have even more suggestions:

o zoom in for higher resolution images (and or export to external viewer)

o allow the image filename to be copied (for reference)

o did i mention open sourcing the code so improvements and fixes can be
made quicker?


thanks once again for such a useful tool!

> did i mention open sourcing the code so improvements and fixes can be
made quicker?

I'm thinking about that... I guess my biggest worry is it might make even more work for me. I wonder, if I were to open-source it, how many people out there would actually do anything with it?

As for the other things, those are some good suggestions, I'll fit as many into 1.0.1 as I can (probably not all of them, obviously).
Bubbinski
I'll second the zoom in feature - also it would be good if I could export images to Paint Shop Pro or some other software at the click of a button. (That would be good if I wanted to make a panorama, for example).

Also I've been able to download the Spirit Sol 398 images but am having a devil of a time trying to make anaglyphs/color images out of them. For the last 2 days, the update is stuck on "Making false color image 2P158058596EFF_fcL247.jpg" - maybe I'll change a filter setting to avoid making 2-4-7 images for now and see if I can get the thing unstuck.
Bubbinski
I took out the L2L4L7 filter spec and then the Midnight Mars Browser choked on an L257 image. Just sat there and did nothing. So I took a different tack.

I ran MSCONFIG (XP) and unchecked my startup items and all non-microsoft services so that nothing but the basic Windows would run in the background. Then I rebooted and chose to generate only the anaglyphs for the latest Spirit update. They generated fine. I put the L247 spec back in the preferences and then chose to generate only the color images for the latest Spirit update (fill in missing images). Lo and behold, it worked! Now I've got a stunning L456 image looking over Husband Hill and lots of other color pics.

I hope this'll help someone out.

Bubbinski (worked in tech support over the phone for 7 years plus. I think I've earned a few breaks in life smile.gif
alan
QUOTE (Bubbinski @ Feb 15 2005, 05:36 PM)
I'll second the zoom in feature - also it would be good if I could export images to Paint Shop Pro or some other software at the click of a button. (That would be good if I wanted to make a panorama, for example).

On a PC go to my computer and follow the path to the image. You should be able to open the files with other programs or copy/paste folders if you like.
mhoward
QUOTE (NIX @ Feb 15 2005, 11:34 AM)
The program is suddenly stalling on my machine.
Should I get another version of Java?
I does still work, just sometimes it doesn't and I'm getting this;

NIX,

From the error, I think you must have modified the setting under Edit->Preferences->Advanced for generatePancamLeftFalseColorTypes. All the false-color types need to be six characters, like L2L5L7, and there shouldn't be a comma at the end. Let me know if this helps. I'll put in some error checking to better catch this.

Mike
Pando
I have noticed that the Exploratorium site is slower than usual in the past few days, especially today. With people now easily able to download the whole couple of gigs of images with a single mouseclick, let's all hope that they don't shut the place down since they seem to be having some bandwidth issues lately.

While the Mars Browser is uber-cool, let's all use common sense here and don't attempt to download the whole thing. Please!... The last thing we need here is the loss of access to Exploratorium.

Thank you.
slinted
QUOTE (Pando @ Feb 16 2005, 01:10 AM)
I have noticed that the Exploratorium site is slower than usual in the past few days, especially today. With people now easily able to download the whole couple of gigs of images with a single mouseclick, let's all hope that they don't shut the place down since they seem to be having some bandwidth issues lately.

While the Mars Browser is uber-cool, let's all use common sense here and don't attempt to download the whole thing. Please!... The last thing we need here is the loss of access to Exploratorium.

Thank you.

The Exploratorium has been a tremendous resource to the enthusiast community since the begining of the missions, from the image hosting to the web-casts they've done on the Rovers. This might be a good time to mention that they are just a not-for-profit science museum that could no doubt use the support of everyone using this program, especially to pay for bandwidth.

http://www.exploratorium.edu/support/index.html
mhoward
QUOTE (slinted @ Feb 16 2005, 01:56 AM)
QUOTE (Pando @ Feb 16 2005, 01:10 AM)
I have noticed that the Exploratorium site is slower than usual in the past few days, especially today. With people now easily able to download the whole couple of gigs of images with a single mouseclick, let's all hope that they don't shut the place down since they seem to be having some bandwidth issues lately.

While the Mars Browser is uber-cool, let's all use common sense here and don't attempt to download the whole thing. Please!... The last thing we need here is the loss of access to Exploratorium.

Thank you.

The Exploratorium has been a tremendous resource to the enthusiast community since the begining of the missions, from the image hosting to the web-casts they've done on the Rovers. This might be a good time to mention that they are just a not-for-profit science museum that could no doubt use the support of everyone using this program, especially to pay for bandwidth.

http://www.exploratorium.edu/support/index.html

Yikes, I didn't think that I might be causing problems. I'll try to email them to see if they have any issues with this. If anbody from Exploratorium follows these boards, maybe you could let me know.
Pando
QUOTE
I'll try to email them to see if they have any issues with this.


Thanks mhoward, I think that would be great smile.gif

Just to clarify, I apologize if I appeared somewhat blunt earlier; I think the browser is just awesome and is a great resource to all of us rover fans. I do not have any information that the browser is actually creating problems for them, so if I am wrong all the better cool.gif

However experience tells me that bandwidth is a resource we must use wisely, and unless the server is heavily mirrored and load balanced, no single link can withstand the traffic this could potentially generate, especially when the browser gets into a more widespread audience with fast broadband connections and big hard drives. It would be easy for them (and very sad for us) to pull the plug to protect their infrastructure or bottom line.
alan
If they were willing to sell the database on CD I would be interested.
Nix
Thank you for looking that up mhoward. I just found out myself; I added ,L2L7 to the selection. There are still stall-issues but I'm guessing they might be related to my computer or the increase in traffic Exploratorium might be experiencing. Thanks to Bubbinski too; unchecking background tasks via MSCONFIG does make the program run more stable.
Borek
It would be cool if some "bandwidth sharing" technology like BitTorrent could be used for the dissemination of the images.

Borek
mhoward
QUOTE (Pando @ Feb 16 2005, 05:25 AM)
QUOTE
I'll try to email them to see if they have any issues with this.


Thanks mhoward, I think that would be great smile.gif

Just to clarify, I apologize if I appeared somewhat blunt earlier; I think the browser is just awesome and is a great resource to all of us rover fans. I do not have any information that the browser is actually creating problems for them, so if I am wrong all the better cool.gif

However experience tells me that bandwidth is a resource we must use wisely, and unless the server is heavily mirrored and load balanced, no single link can withstand the traffic this could potentially generate, especially when the browser gets into a more widespread audience with fast broadband connections and big hard drives. It would be easy for them (and very sad for us) to pull the plug to protect their infrastructure or bottom line.

I talked to the webmaster there via email, and there's not a problem at the moment, but we should monitor it. They will be switching to a much faster internet connection soon which may resolve any potential issues. Also he has created a new alias, nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars, instead of qt.exploratorium.edu/mars; right now they both work but nasa.exploratorium.edu/mars will allow them to shift the images to a different machine if necessary. The address will be updated in v1.0.1, which should be out just any day now.

Another thing I might do is add the ability to do big downloads from JPL, although Exploratorium is as we know superior for timely updates. I assume JPL wouldn't have any problems with bandwidth but I suppose I should contact some there, too. blink.gif

Mike
Sunspot
Hmm.....maybe they are switching servers right now, can't access the exploratorium site sad.gif

edit: It's working OK now
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