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Paolo
I thought it was time to start a new topic on NASA's next Moon mission
incidentally, there is a new mission update out today
Paolo
LADEE launch is now expected in August 2013 http://msdb.gsfc.nasa.gov/change_log.php
so who will launch first? LADEE or Chang'e 3?
Phil Stooke
I thought Chang'E 3 was scheduled for October.

Phil

Paolo
I only saw it mentioned as "second half" of 2013
Paolo
now with solar panels attached http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LADEE/ne...-03_update.html
Explorer1
LADEE briefing in a few minutes:
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv

EDIT: Grunsfeld's tie!
belleraphon1
LADEE briefing from 08/22/2013 on Youtube in case folks missed it.

LADEE briefing 08/22/2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTzo0Lq1-T4

Craig


John D. Pritchard
LADEE launch window 6 SEP 2013 23:27 EDT for 4 minutes
Launch windows analysis results (pdf)

Citizen Science
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LADEE/ma...ml#.UiYoMd-m0ak
Looking for telescopic lunar impact flashes and Earth meteor counts for LADEE mission duration.

Twitter coverage


NASA TV coverage
September 5, Thursday
  • 10 -11:30 a.m. – NASA Social for LADEE Mission Live from the Wallops Flight Facility – HQ/WFF (Education Channel)

  • 3 p.m. – LADEE Prelaunch Mission Briefing – HQ/WFF (All Channels)
  • 4 p.m. – LADEE Mission Science and Technology Demonstration Briefing – HQ/WFF (All Channels)

September 6, Friday
  • 6-10 a.m. –Live Interviews on the LADEE Mission – HQ/WFF (All Channels)
  • 4-6 p.m. – Live Interviews on LADEE Mission – HQ/WFF (All Channels)
  • 9:30 p.m. – Live Launch Coverage and Commentary on LADEE Mission – HQ/GSFC/WFF (Public and Media Channels)
  • 9:30 p.m. – Simulcast of NASA EDGE Live Webcast of LADEE Mission and Launch – LARC/HQ/WFF (Education Channel)

September 7, Saturday
  • 2 a.m. – LADEE Post Launch News Conference –HQ/WFF (All Channels)
Explorer1
Welcome, John, and thanks for the comprehensive list!
All times are in Eastern, by the way.
John D. Pritchard
QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Sep 3 2013, 09:28 PM) *
Welcome, John, and thanks for the comprehensive list!

Thanks for the welcome

CryptoEngineer
I look forward to LADEE's launch tonight.

One of the more intriguing bits of new kit is the LLCD - a laser based communication system. It has a number of advantages over radio; smaller size & power, greatly improved data rates, and it doesn't require exclusive use of a chunk of radio spectrum.

But there are still things I wonder about.

1. How do the two ends find each other? At lunar distance the 'spot' illuminated by the laser is only a few miles across.
2. There are three ground sites - one in California, one in New Mexico, and one in Tenerife; how does it know where to look?
3. The laser operates in the near infra-red. To what extent can it deal with cloud?

I presume there's some beacon mechanism to indicate 'look more closely here', but its not described.

To what extent can it deal with slew? Would this mechanism be useful for Earth-orbit-to-ground communications?

CE
djellison
QUOTE (CryptoEngineer @ Sep 6 2013, 02:37 PM) *
1. How do the two ends find each other?


No different to radio - you need to know where you are, and where the station is. MRO has to know where the Earth is. Goldstone has to know where MRO is, for example.

QUOTE
2. There are three ground sites - one in California, one in New Mexico, and one in Tenerife; how does it know where to look?


Same as radio - by programming in the appropriate information. It's a simple geometry problem.

QUOTE
3. The laser operates in the near infra-red. To what extent can it deal with cloud?


I don't believe it can. Higher freq radio struggles with rain. The increase in bandwidth more than makes up for the times when you can't communicate (i.e. 10x faster, but maybe you drop 1 day in 10 is still a 9 fold increase)

QUOTE
To what extent can it deal with slew? Would this mechanism be useful for Earth-orbit-to-ground communications?


No different, again, to radio - you just need slightly tighter pointing control. Spacecraft-to-Spacecraft laser has already been tested, as has orbiter to ground with Alphasat and ESA intends to use it in their version of TDRS. LRO has received data via laser into LOLA.

Doug
mcaplinger
QUOTE (djellison @ Sep 6 2013, 04:01 PM) *
No different to radio...

Actually, I think the spot size is small enough that a separate wider-field (or scanned, maybe, not clear) acquisition beam has to be sent by the ground station so that the flight system can adjust its pointing dynamically -- see http://dspace.mit.edu/openaccess-dissemina....1/61673‎
ChrisC
Oh, it's definitely different from radio alright. About 4-5 orders of magnitude different. The far higher frequencies of light mean a far smaller beamwidth than a typical radio link, so they have to use spatial searching algorithms. See this video (cued up to the right moment) for a very brief discussion of this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03BN7_4N0yQ&t=38s

More info here:
http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/ll...final_.web_.pdf
Explorer1
T-11 minutes...

EDIT: Liftoff! It shot up so fast!
dvandorn
That thing leapt off the pad like there was something a-comin' after it and it didn't dare to look back...

-the other Doug
ChrisC
Minotaur sure doesn't dawdle staging between 1 and 2, does it?
Astro0
If you missed the launch...
NASA TV http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf0SIRxXvRo
Paolo
press conf now beginning on NASA TV. at a confortable 8 AM here in Europe (yes, we were mostly sleeping during the launch itself...)
dilo
QUOTE (Paolo @ Sep 7 2013, 07:04 AM) *
press conf now beginning on NASA TV. at a confortable 8 AM here in Europe (yes, we were mostly sleeping during the launch itself...)

I confirm, Paolo! wink.gif
After picture-perfect launch, in the press conference they told about safe-mode due to a reaction wheel issue... let's hope they will solve soon!

PS: this image is fantastic!
http://spaceweather.com/gallery/full_image..._1378531705.jpg
nprev
Thanks for posting the video, Astro0; just got home from work & immediately came here to look for same! smile.gif

And what Gordan & oDoug said...that thing scoots. Talk about a bat out of hell. Nice little booster.
John Pritchard
Hi,

The NASA Social media event for the launch and mission of LADEE was a fairly intense two days. NASA did a great job of not running us beyond our limits, but filling our days with educational activity. We heard about many topics in addition to LADEE flight and science.

Pix are up on G+, although without captions.
https://plus.google.com/photos/102180409349...875210826437601
https://plus.google.com/photos/102180409349...879400957736705

A first reflection on the whole experience can be found here.
https://plus.google.com/1021804093492001763...sts/YxPAWcGqHdy

In depth study notes (as I like to call more technical [g+ length] posts), will take me a year to dig into. But will be coming on G+.

John
craigmcg
Update on reaction wheel problem via Twitter:

@NASALADEE's reaction wheels were successfully brought back on-line. Get the latest as LADEE heads to the moon at http://www.nasa.gov/ladee
CryptoEngineer
QUOTE (ChrisC @ Sep 6 2013, 09:50 PM) *
Oh, it's definitely different from radio alright. About 4-5 orders of magnitude different. The far higher frequencies of light mean a far smaller beamwidth than a typical radio link, so they have to use spatial searching algorithms. See this video (cued up to the right moment) for a very brief discussion of this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03BN7_4N0yQ&t=38s


Thanks for the links! I thought there had to be some kind of active aiming refinement.

BTW: I saw the launch, from northern Massachusetts, over 360 miles away.

CP
bobik
In her LADEE coverage, Emily Lakdawalla states that the Lunar Dust Experiment (LDEX) has heritage from Cassini CAPS (Cassini Plasma Spectrometer). I wonder if that is correct. CAPS measures the energy and electrical charge of particles such as electrons and protons and LDEX is an impact ionization dust detector. Emily probably mixed it up with Cassini's CDA (Cosmic Dust Analyzer).
John Pritchard
QUOTE (bobik @ Sep 11 2013, 01:35 AM) *
In her LADEE coverage, Emily Lakdawalla states that the Lunar Dust Experiment (LDEX) has heritage from Cassini CAPS (Cassini Plasma Spectrometer). I wonder if that is correct. CAPS measures the energy and electrical charge of particles such as electrons and protons and LDEX is an impact ionization dust detector. Emily probably mixed it up with Cassini's CDA (Cosmic Dust Analyzer).


Yes, I recall that the LDEX and NMS instruments started from previous work. The NMS is very close to the instrument on CASSINI. I put a couple links here http://www.spacetweepsociety.org/2013/09/0...light-facility/
Big Joe
QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 6 2013, 11:42 PM) *
That thing leapt off the pad like there was something a-comin' after it and it didn't dare to look back...

-the other Doug


A group of us were lucky enough to view the launch, I thought for sure we would not make it off the pad on the first try with such a small window.Tried to video the event however as you said it was so fast off that pad I have about 5 seconds of it then just the sound of the rocket. :-)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fxmurphy/9705...157635443442680
John Pritchard
QUOTE (Big Joe @ Sep 11 2013, 08:32 AM) *
A group of us were lucky enough to view the launch, I thought for sure we would not make it off the pad on the first try with such a small window.Tried to video the event however as you said it was so fast off that pad I have about 5 seconds of it then just the sound of the rocket. :-)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fxmurphy/9705...157635443442680


nice photo rig!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fxmurphy/9703712171/
dvandorn
Ooops! It appears a frog may have given its life for the conquest of space:

[url="http://www.nbcnews.com/science/frog-pops-nasa-photo-ladee-rocket-launch-did-it-croak-8C11134276"]

And the image:

Click to view attachment

-the other Doug
Paolo
the LADEE mission has been extended one more lunar day (28 Earth days) and the probe will crash on the Moon "on or around April 21, 2014"
http://www.nasa.gov/ames/nasa-extends-moon...ellite-mission/
kenny
LRO photographed LADEE passing underneath it. They also managed to reconstruct a better image from the blur, showing features on the spacecraft. Very nice...

Ladee from LRO
Explorer1
Teleconference this Thursday about the extended science and EOM.

http://www.nasa.gov/ames/nasa-to-host-medi...ed-moon-impact/
Phil Stooke
LADEE tweeted that it survived the eclipse.

Phil
djellison
There's a great display that will autonomously flick between realtime telemetry driven and predicted trajectory

http://ladeestk.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/preview.cgi

dilo
QUOTE (djellison @ Apr 15 2014, 11:38 PM) *
There's a great display that will autonomously flick between realtime telemetry driven and predicted trajectory

Cool indeed! Until this morning (08 UT) periaxis was a mere 5.19 km above nominal surface:
Click to view attachment
Now connection appear impossible for me (timeout expiring), do someone knows more recen informations?

NOTE: I was able to re-connect few minutes ago, exactly near the new periaxis! at 15:35 it was 5.29km (slightly increased)
gwiz
It's down, no details from NASA yet but someone's tweeted Sundman crater.
Phil Stooke
Yes, Thursday evening California time, Friday morning UT. Sundman crater is just north of Orientale, near Einstein crater and only just on the far side. Details were from Astrogator.

Phil

Phil Stooke
I added LADEE (extreme right edge) and Chang'E 3 to my fake olde-time lunar map with landing and impact sites:

http://publish.uwo.ca/~pjstooke/vehiculum.jpg

Phil
Phil Stooke
LADEE imaged by LROC.

http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/822

Here's a finder image to locate the site.

Phil

Click to view attachment
Explorer1
Looks like an old mystery may have been solved: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v522/...ature14479.html
dinos
QUOTE (Explorer1 @ Jun 18 2015, 07:24 PM) *
Looks like an old mystery may have been solved: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v522/...ature14479.html

interesting but i don't think so... is there any additional source?
Phil Stooke
It's Nature... it is an additional source all by itself.

Perhaps you would care to explain the reason for your scepticism. It all seems pretty reasonable to me.

Phil

Paolo
one new paper on LADEE results in today's Science (and it appears to be in open access!):

How surface composition and meteoroid impacts mediate sodium and potassium in the lunar exosphere

QUOTE
Despite being trace constituents of the lunar exosphere, sodium and potassium are the most readily observed species due to their bright line emission. Measurements of these species by the Ultraviolet and Visible Spectrometer (UVS) on the Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE) have revealed unambiguous temporal and spatial variations indicative of a strong role for meteoroid bombardment and surface composition in determining the composition and local time dependence of the Moon’s exosphere. Observations show distinct lunar day (monthly) cycles for both species as well as an annual cycle for sodium. The first continuous measurements for potassium show a more repeatable variation across lunations and an enhancement over KREEP (Potassium Rare Earth Elements and Phosphorus) surface regions, revealing a strong dependence on surface composition.


see also the perspective article (also in open access):

Sampling the Moon's atmosphere

QUOTE
In H. G. Wells' 1901 science fiction classic The First Men in the Moon, two protagonists, English businessman Mr. Bedford and the eccentric physicist Dr. Cavor, knock back a special enervating concoction designed to expand their lungs, followed by the requisite fortifying brandy, before venturing onto the Moon's surface to breathe the rarefied lunar atmosphere. Even more tenuous than Wells' imagined environment, the lunar exosphere is an atmosphere so thin that atoms never collide, bounded on one side by the lunar surface and extending thousands of kilometers out into space. This low-density envelope results from a balance among the influx of material from the Sun, outgassing from the Moon's interior, delivery from meteoritic bombardment, and the loss of material to space as well as recycling in the lunar surface (see the figure). The precise formula for the formation of the lunar exosphere is unknown, but recent data from orbital spacecraft are being used to delineate the relative contributions from different processes. On page 249 of this issue, Colaprete et al. (1) report measurements of sodium and potassium (Na and K) in the lunar exosphere based on observations from the Ultraviolet and Visible Spectrometer (UVS) aboard NASA's Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE), which acquired continuous dayside and nightside measurements of exospheric Na and K over multiple lunar orbits.
Phil Stooke
Looking back at this thread, I didn't see any mention of the LADEE star tracker images. I have found three short GIF sequences shot by the star trackers:

http://www.nasa.gov/ames/ladee-star-tracke...canelli-craters

https://www.nasa.gov/ames/ladee-project-scientist-update/

http://www.americaspace.com/?p=59288

If anybody knows of others, please post them!

The first two show the surface illuminated by Earthshine. One has locations identified, the other doesn't. I have located them on these maps.

Phil

Click to view attachment
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