Chang'e 5 atmospheric re-entry and parachute ejection system tested.

A paper (in Chinese) on the design of the Chang'e sample return drill. it includes a nice CAD view of the probe
Design and Analysis of Automatic Drilling Sampling Mechanism for Lunar Exploration

Today's bland news from Xinhua News Agency... but.... what is Chang'e 4 going to do?
A repeat of Chang'e 3 with a new Rover?

BEIJING, Dec. 16 (Xinhua) -- China plans to launch lunar probe Chang'e 5 in 2017, according to the State Administration of Science, Technology and Industry for
National Defense. The development of Chang'e 5 is proceeding smoothly, said the administration's spokesman Wu Zhijian at a press conference on Monday.

The just-concluded Chang'e 3 mission marked completion of the second phase of the country's lunar program, which includes orbiting, landing and returning to Earth.

The lunar program will enter the next stage of unmanned sampling and returning, which will include Chang'e 5 and 6 missions, according to Wu.

The feeling among China-watchers seems to be that Chang'E 4 will do what CE2 did for CE1 - if CE1 failed it's a simple back-up, but when CE1 succeeded, CE2 became an opportunity to test advanced technology. It flew a direct route to the Moon instead of several increasing orbits, it carried advanced cameras, it flew a more complex orbital mission including low altitude flyovers of the landing area for very high resolution imaging.

So for CE4 there are reports it will carry advanced auto-navigation software. And my impression now is that it may test sample collection and handling tools as well. All in preparation for CE5 and CE6. So still a rover mission, but more advanced.

Phil

May they also try re-igniting the lander's main engine to send it on a ballistic
hop to a different site? I think Surveyor did that, albeit to only a few feet away to enable
stereo coverage of the surrounding area. They may not wish to do the same with Chang'e 3
as it marks, more so than the rover, the site of the first Chinese landing on the Moon.

No, I read that one of the first tasks for the lander was to vent the propulsion system.

Airbag

It seem's your right:

China plans to launch Chang'e-5 in 2017
English.news.cn 2013-12-16 15:04:11

"As the backup probe of Chang'e-3, Chang'e-4 will be adapted to verify technologies for Chang'e-5, according to Wu."

Thorsten

From the same article, I thought this was significant:

The lunar program will enter the next stage of unmanned sampling and returning, which will include Chang'e-5 and 6 missions, according to Wu.
"The program's third phase will be more difficult because many breakthroughs must be made in key technologies such as moon surface takeoff,
sampling encapsulation, rendezvous and docking in lunar orbit, and high-speed Earth reentry, which are all new to China," Wu said.

Rendezvous and docking in lunar orbit is curious, as this diagram previously released seems to show a return capsule lifting directly off the moon' surface,
like the Soviet Luna 16 etc. You wouldn't carry the weight of an earth-return capsule down to the lunar surface if you planned to transfer the samples
in lunar orbit.

Click to view attachment

That diagram in your post is quite old.
This one bellow should more reflect the latest return mission design:

Dekuji, thanks.... that makes more sense when we see the size of the return module in this recent test.


Click to view attachment

I suspect that the planned trip of spaceship Chang'e-5 to the Moon is due to the required time to upgrade the capacity of rocket to send a much heavier Chang'e-5.

Do you know the source of the diagram? I'd like to use it for my blog.

I feel that the design of the sample return can be used as proof in concept for future planetary missions such as a Mars sample return like we have been wanting for decades.

Whilst some technology could be carried across - the requirement for Mars ascent and lunar ascent are very different. 2x the gravity, plus an atmosphere to deal with. The two vehicles would be very different.

I took it from here: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php...4230#msg1134230
And Chinese original can be found here: http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/read.php?tid=981809

Admin Note: Be aware that on the Chinese website a pop-up appears.

Add here is some lastest news for China's Chang'e Project 4&5 and manned Lunar exploration,
2013-12-25
People.com.cn Guangzhou on 25 December, (Sun Lu) yesterday morning, "the father", China academician Ye Peijian guest lectures "Pearl River Science Forum", the Chinese lunar and deep space exploration, said the return mode Chang'e five innovation, and before the rumors of the "abolition of China's manned moon" the false news responded.

作为中国空间飞行器及信息处理专家的叶培建，曾任嫦娥一号卫星系统总指挥兼总设计师。现任航天科技集团公司科技委顾问，航天科技集团公司嫦娥三号探测器系统首席科学家、嫦娥五号总设计师、总指挥顾问，空间科学与深空探测首席专家。

As China space vehicle and information processing expert Ye Peijian, a former Chang'e-1 satellite system commander and chief designer. The aerospace technology group science and Technology Committee consultant, China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation, the chief scientist of three probe system Chang'e five chief designer, commander in chief expert consultants, space science and deep space exploration.

“玉兔号”月球车今日凌晨“冬眠”

"Rabbit" Rover "hibernation early this morning"

据叶培建介绍，由于月球绕着地球转一圈是28天，月球的一天是地球的28天，因此月球的一个白天是地球的14天，月球的一个晚上也是地球的14天，昨日到今日要进入月夜，温度将下降到零下负170度，而夜晚无太阳无法发电，月球车要“冻死了”，所以今天的凌晨月球车设置为冬眠状态。但之后仍然需要它“活过来”好好工作，所以在这次的着陆器和巡视器上我国第一次使用核同位素发热，让月球车可以在负170度的情况底下保持最低的生存条件。另外，还设置了一个唤醒电路，到下个月月初、太阳再升起来的时候，试着把它“叫醒”，但是否可行还有待事实证明。

According to Ye Peijian introduction, as the moon moves around the earth is round 28 days, the moon day is 28 Earth days, so one day the moon is the earth's 14 days, the moon for one night is 14 Earth days, yesterday to today to enter the moonlit night, the temperature will drop to minus 170 degrees and the night without the sun, no power, the lunar rover to "freeze", so today's morning of lunar rover is set to a state of hibernation. But still need it "live" good work, so in the lander and Rover on the China first use nuclear isotope fever, let the rover can maintain the lowest living conditions in 170 case. In addition, also set up a wake-up circuit, by the time of next month, the sun will rise up, try to "wake up", but is feasible remains to be proved.

嫦娥五号返回方式将创新

Chang'e five return mode innovation

叶建培描述了嫦娥五号从发射到返回的整个过程。

Ye Jianpei described the Chang'e five from launch to the whole procedure returns.

嫦娥五号将到新建的海南发射场、用新研制的长征五号发射，它由4个器组成，着陆器、上升器、轨道器、返回器。这4个器的组合体打到月球轨道，打到月球轨道以后轨道器、返回器成一个组合，着陆器、上升器呈一个组合，这两个组合分离，着陆器带着上升器像嫦娥三号一样，降低在预定的地区。

The goddess of the moon will be five to the newly established Hainan launch site, using the newly developed long march five launch, it consists of 4 components, the lander, riser, the orbiter, return device. Combination of these 4 devices to the orbit of the moon, to the orbit of the moon after the orbiter, return to a portfolio, the lander, which is a combination of rising, the two combination, the lander with riser like Chang'e three, lower in the predetermined area.

着陆器上有两个机械手，一个机械手在月球表面采样、封装到容器里，另一个机械手能在月球上打钻2米深，采集地下样品并封装。机械手会将封装后的容器转移到着陆器的上升器里，上升器将从月面上起飞，进入月球轨道后，轨道器和返回器的组合体去追它，交汇到一起后，把上升器里面的样品转回到转移器，然后把上升器扔掉，轨道器和返回器绕过月球返回地球。

There are two robot lander, a mechanical hand sampling, on the surface of the moon packaging into the container, the other a robot on the moon drilling 2 meters deep underground, collecting samples and packaging. The manipulator will be transferred to the container after rising for lander, a riser will take off from the lunar surface, to enter the moon's orbit, the orbiter and return device combination to chase it, meeting together, put up inside the samples back to the transfer device, and then the riser away, orbiter and return device around the moon back to earth.

叶培建表示，嫦娥五号的返回会有一个很大的创新。过去都是直接返回，这一次为了解决落点、着陆角以调整冲击力的问题，决定分离进入大气层到60公里时不回来，再跳回到宇宙当中去，再跳回大气层，然后再回来。“通过这个办法，距离越长，走的时间越长，我们可以得到很多好处，可以减少发热，减少着陆角等等，这种返回方式也将是我们的第一次试验。”

Ye Peijian said, Chang'e five return there will be a great innovation. The past is returned directly, this time in order to solve the landing, landing angle to adjust the impact of the problem, decided to separate into the atmosphere to 60 km does not come back, then jumped back to the universe, then jump back to the atmosphere, and then come back. "In this way, the longer the distance, go longer, we can get a lot of benefits, can reduce fever, reduce the landing angle and so on, this return mode will also be the first test of our."

叶建培也说明，为了增加可靠性，将先发射试验器，这就是明年发射的嫦娥四号。嫦娥四号将打到月球但不落月，它的返回器和嫦娥五号的返回器一模一样，可以用来验证这种返回方式。

Ye Jianpei also shows that, in order to increase the reliability, will be the first emission tester, which is the next launch Chang'e four. Chang'e four will hit the moon but not fall months, its return device and Chang'e five return device as like as two peas, can be used to verify this return mode.

目前中国没有载人登月计划

At present China not manned lunar program

对于之前网上在传的我国将取消载人登月计划的消息，叶培建用三句话概括了我国对载人登月计划的态度：“第一，人类要征服太空首先要去月球，美国人去过了，中国人一定要去，中国人也一定能够去；第二，目前我们国家没有任何载人登月的计划，因此也无所谓前几天网上传的取消这个计划的无稽之谈，没有这个计划就没有取消；第三，一个国家有没有载人登月的计划要看国家的实力、国家综合发展的需要，随着国家经济能力的发展和科学技术的进步，我认为中国迟迟晚晚是要搞载人登月的。”

For before the Internet will cancel the manned moon landing plan in our country the news, Ye Peijian uses three words summed up China's attitude to the manned moon landing plan ": first, the human to conquer space must first go to the moon, the Americans have been to, Chinese must go, Chinese will be able to; second, at present our country has no manned moon landing plan, therefore also does not matter a few days before the Internet to cancel the plan is not groundless statement, this plan would not cancel; third, no manned landing on the moon has a national plan to watch the national strength, comprehensive national development needs, with the development of national economy and science ability the progress of technology, I think Chinese has been late to the manned lunar landing."

同时叶培建也透露最近一版的航天白皮书已经明确提出我国已经开始载人登月的关键技术研究，表示希望在有生之年能够看到中国人登上月球。

At the same time, Ye Peijian also revealed that a recent edition of the white paper has clearly put forward the Aerospace China has begun to research on the key technology of manned lunar landing, expressed the hope to see Chinese landed on the moon in the rest of one's life.

ADMIN NOTE: A PM was sent to Gofar about the Forum rules on discussion of 'manned spaceflight'. As this is one of their first posts and simply a translation, no action is required. Obviously no further discussion needs to be entered into on the subject. Thanks all.

The Chinese are going to launch a prototype of the CE-5 descent module on a free-return trajectory around the Moon and back this October: Link

(this has been known for some time, but not well advertised by the Chinese. Given this is flying before IXV and EFT-1 maybe we need a dedicated thread here now? )

According to this story, the Chang'e 5 prototype will be an orbiter and will be called Chang'e 4. It is the backup for Chang'e 3 that has been "adapted to verify the technologies needed for the Chang'e 5 mission". Well, it looks like the Chinese won't send another rover as a follow-up to Chang'e 3. Too bad, from a lunar surface exploration point of view.

The mission numbering might just be an assumption by the writer, Leonard David. It's hard to know anything for certain at the moment. My understanding had been that the sample return test capsule would be carried by an orbiter more like Chang'E 2 , but everything is uncertain until it happens. I still hope for a rover mission to try to overcome the problems experienced by Yutu, but that's just me wishing for something!

Phil

Chang'e-5 pathfinder will be launched in october， it may be called Chang'e-5 T1(test?)
Chang'e-4 will be launched in 2016, it will another rover ,while added a sample arm, verify the lunar sample technology for Chang'e-5

http://www.gov.cn/xinwen/2014-09/05/content_2745753.htm
他表示，嫦娥五号的主要任务是去月球取样，并把样品拿回来。也就是完成探月工程“绕月－落月－返回”三部曲中，最为艰巨的“返回”任务。嫦娥三号“落月”地点位于虹湾地区，而嫦娥五号则准备在风暴洋附近。两者相距非常远，不会产生交叉。
Chang'e-5 will be landed in the Oceanus Procellarum

I think Chang'e-4 will also landed here

Thank you for all this very useful information.

Phil

Cháng'é-whatevernumber will be launched next October 23:

China Readies Moon Mission for Launch Next Week

Will we finally know what is Cháng'é-4 (rover, reentry-test, cancelled, other)?

Thorsten

I tweeted that and had a couple of different people correct me who said that the thing that is launching in October is called Chang'e 5 Test Device, or Chang'e 5 T-1.

There is terrible confusion about this in the media, but it seems clear that there will be a future lander and rover called Chang'E 4, in 2016, which will test the soil-sampling equipment for the sample mission. This re-entry test flight is not Chang'E 4.

Phil

I may be wrong but I think I have never seen the test flight of the sample return capsule called "Chang'E 4" in Chinese media

Someone on Twitter sent me this CCTV video from August 10, which refers to the impending launch as 嫦娥五号 试验器, Chang'e 5 Test Vehicle.

Paolo, I think you're right - but it's a mess in the western media.

Phil

Spaceflight Now's International Launch Schedule bills it as "Chang'e 5 Precursor."

"A Chinese Long March 3C rocket will launch a mission to demonstrate re-entry technologies for the planned Chang'e 5 lunar sample return mission."

A very detailed report about Chang'e-5 Test Vehicle at Spaceflight101.
They call it "Chang'e 5-T1", but I wonder if the "T1" is really official.

With respect to Chang'e-4, I found at nasaspaceflight.com the following post
(« Reply #38 on: 10/16/2014 11:53 PM ») from User "Blackstar":


I hope so too.

Maybe (my speculation) they are redesigning the lander now,
taking into account the lessons learned from Chang'e-3.
When finished, then they'll let us know...

Thorsten

"Blackstar" on that forum is a science and aerospace writer/historian named Dwayne Day, who has more connections in the industry than most NASA administrators... He may occasionally pass along rumors (as we all do on occasion), but his rumors are usually more reliable than press releases from the various agencies, universities and aerospace firms.

The best information I've heard is that Chang'e 4 will be not only a revamped version of Yutu, but will also test the sample collection and caching systems. Chang'e 5 will then be the sample return mission. What I've not heard is whether the lander that carries the Chang'e 5 rover will also carry the ascent vehicle that will rendezvous with the orbiter with the Earth return capsule.

If they send separate flights with the rover lander, the ascent vehicle and the Earth return orbiter, the rover will have to be able to make its way to the ascent vehicle to deliver its samples. This would make this a combination LOR/LSR mission architecture -- lunar orbit rendezvous plus lunar surface rendezvous.

I'll be very interested in seeing what they end up doing. If they do it that way, though, they can really do some robust recon and sample return work on the Moon, which will be really interesting to see.

-the other Doug (With my shield, not yet upon it)

as fare as I know, CE-5 will not carry a rover. samples are collected by a robotic arm and the lander carries the ascent rocket to put samples in lunar orbit for rendezvous with the Earth return module.
see for ex http://www.spaceflight101.com/uploads/6/4/...306814_orig.jpg

Okay, kewl. A rather less robust geological exploration in re the sample return, then. As with the Soviet Luna sample return spacecraft, your selection of samples is limited to the variety available within reach of an arm attached to the lander. Certainly, this is more robust than, say, the seminal APXS systems flown on Surveyor, which had a variety of targets limited to an area less than a square foot (and that only when improvised operations using Surveyor's digging scoop arm to push the APXS sensor away from the ground directly below its deployment housing -- without that improvisation, Surveyor would have a target selection pre-determined by the single spot over which the APXS sensor was located after landing).

It *is* nice that the Chang'e return scheme, as per the illustration, will be a deep core. Such was returned by the final Luna sample return craft, as well (though perhaps not as deep as the Apollo deep cores). But we're not looking at the kind of exploration flexibility and variety, in terms of returned samples, that you could get by roving around and selecting the most interesting samples (both those that represent the common rocks and soils that define the overall area geologically plus the unique and exotic samples that represent rocks thrown into the area from other geological units far away). Yes, you would need to acquire very small samples of each type of rock you find, but that's the same challenge MSR will be facing in the next couple of decades.

I guess the good news is that China is developing an infrastructure for unmanned lunar exploration that can be exploited in a number of ways in the future. Perhaps after the deep-core sample return process has been proven out, we will see the LSR-style rover-cache-plus-separate-return-vehicle architecture developed to provide a truly robust geological exploration capability. At least, one can hope...

-the other Doug (With my shield, not yet upon it)

New lunar mission to test Chang'e-5 technology
English.news.cn 2014-10-22 13:57:53

• China will launch a new lunar mission this week to test technology likely to be used in Chang'e-5.
• The experimental spacecraft is expected to reach a location near the moon and return to Earth.
• Spacecraft's speed will be slowed down so it can land safely at determined location during process.



BEIJING, Oct. 22 (Xinhua) -- China will launch a new lunar mission this week to test technology likely to be used in Chang'e-5, a future lunar probe with the ability to return to Earth.

The experimental spacecraft launched this week is expected to reach a location near the moon and return to Earth, according to the State Administration of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense on Wednesday.

The test model is currently ready and scheduled to be launched between Friday and Sunday from the Xichang Satellite Launch Center in southwest China, with the whole mission taking about eight days.

"The meteorological condition will meet the requirements for the launch," said Tao Zhongshan, chief engineer of the center.

It is the first time China has conducted a test involving a half-orbit around the moon at a height of 380,000 kilometers before having the craft return to Earth.

The return mission will involve the spacecraft entering, exiting, and re-entering Earth's atmosphere and landing, said the administration.

During this process, the spacecraft's speed will be slowed down so it can land safely at a determined location, a key capability needed for Chang'e-5, which is expected to return from the moon at a velocity of 11.2 kilometers per second, according to the scientists' explanation.

China's advanced Long March-3C carrier rocket will make its debut during the test.

The Chang'e-5 probe, expected to launch in 2017, will be tasked with landing on the moon, collecting samples and returning to Earth.

"Apart from the technology of self-returning to Earth, the probe will make breakthrough in sample collecting, moon surface takeoff, rendezvous and docking in lunar orbit," said Hu Hao, chief designer of the third phase of China's lunar probe project.

China carried out Chang'e-1 and Chang'e-2 missions in 2007 and 2010, respectively.

In December, 2013, Chang'e-3 lunar probe succeeded in soft landing on the moon, with the country's first moon rover on board. The Chang'e-3 mission marked completion of the second phase of China's lunar program, which includes orbiting, landing and returning to Earth.

PS, from other newest report, this test spacecraft will also carry two nanosatellite made by Luxembourg and Denmark, named "4M Radio Beacon" and "Pocket Spaceship PS86X1", will be released near the moon and flyby the moon.

..and it's off:

http://www.spaceflight101.com/change-5-tes...on-updates.html


interestingly, the mission profile appears similar to that of the soviet zond missions of the late 1960s.

Before first TCM，CE5T1 take a photo of earth

Looks like a black-and-white picture of Earth that has been tinted blue.

-the other Doug (With my shield, not yet upon it)

would be interesting to know whether it comes from a proper "2D" camera, i.e. not a pushbroom one like on CE-1 and -2 or from an engineering webcam like those on CE-2

Looks like a black-and-white picture of Earth that has been tinted blue.

-the other Doug (With my shield, not yet upon it)


We may have a blue moon thou: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_moon

"...tinted blue."

More likely just the quality of the monitor it was screen-captured from.

Yeah, possibly a monitor issue. But there are no colors in that image except blue -- not even white. The clouds are just a lighter blue than the rest of the image. If it's a color image, there are no land masses visible and the white clouds have been heavily tinted.

It still looks like a tinted gray-scale image to me, to be honest. I get the feeling that if you just drew the blue channel down to where the clouds are white, the rest of the image would become gray.

-the other Doug (With my shield, not yet upon it)

perhaps when CE5T1 reentry，there will be a live on cctv 13

I didn't notice it before... the phase of the Moon when CE-5 T1 fies by Tuesday morning will be similar to that of the Luna 3 flyby 55 years ago. so more or less the same portion of the farside will be illuminated

CE-5T1 has taken some photos of moon and earth，very beautiful！

Yes, very beautiful. That's Mare Marginis and the crater Neper on its southern (bottom) edge in the first image.

Phil

Here are the photos in full resolution, from Xinhua News:

(apparently they were taken from the solar array monitoring camera - the same as the one used on Chang'e 2, so this should be the full shot)

Now, *that* ain't a tinted-blue B&W pic of Earth! Very nice.

-the other Doug (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Phil, Cosmic Penguin: what do you think the correct image credit is on these photos?

My best guess is CAST - the China Academy of Space Technology.

http://www.cast.cn/CastEn/

Phil