Landing Site Imagery |
Landing Site Imagery |
May 22 2008, 05:46 AM
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#181
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The Poet Dude Group: Moderator Posts: 5551 Joined: 15-March 04 From: Kendal, Cumbria, UK Member No.: 60 |
Crop from latest HiRISE landing ellipse image... looks like frost was lingering as recently as May 2nd...
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May 22 2008, 05:47 AM
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#182
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The Poet Dude Group: Moderator Posts: 5551 Joined: 15-March 04 From: Kendal, Cumbria, UK Member No.: 60 |
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May 22 2008, 11:20 AM
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#183
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Member Group: Members Posts: 646 Joined: 23-December 05 From: Forest of Dean Member No.: 617 |
Reckless predictions corner:
1 .the montony of a mostly flat horizon will be balanced by a lot of small-scale relief, of the order of a metre or two, that will be clearly visible all around the lander. 2. the lander will come to rest with a significant tilt (more than ten degrees.) Now I can relax until Monday morning, knowing that th e universe will have to allow a successful EDL, in order to prove me wrong -------------------- --
Viva software libre! |
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May 22 2008, 12:20 PM
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#184
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Forum Contributor Group: Members Posts: 1372 Joined: 8-February 04 From: North East Florida, USA. Member No.: 11 |
It would be cool indeed if Phoenix lands in a patch of surface frost.
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May 22 2008, 12:25 PM
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#185
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8783 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Cooler still if the trench uncovers multiple layers of ice...
-------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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May 22 2008, 02:47 PM
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#186
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The Poet Dude Group: Moderator Posts: 5551 Joined: 15-March 04 From: Kendal, Cumbria, UK Member No.: 60 |
1 .the montony of a mostly flat horizon will be balanced by a lot of small-scale relief, of the order of a metre or two, that will be clearly visible all around the lander. Well, I've been wandering around the latest HiRISE Phoenix landing site image, and I've found some very interesting (well, I think they are anyway!) features that suggest it's at least possible we might see some decent surface relief... A couple of these images have me really puzzled, to be honest, because the lighting conditions are very confusing. So I'm not sure if they're real features, casting shadows, or some strange kind of lens flare effect. Anyway, take a look experts, and see what you make of these... What's that then? ... and that? A quite high ridge with frost on the top? But this is making me scratch my head in a not-too-good way... That looks like either a steep-sided trench, or a very narrow, steep ridge, depending on how I look at it. What do you think? Either way, landing on that would give Phoenix's pix a tilting horizon, wouldn't it..? Feel free to ignore, I'm just killing time before making tea... -------------------- |
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May 22 2008, 03:00 PM
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#187
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Rover Driver Group: Members Posts: 1015 Joined: 4-March 04 Member No.: 47 |
some of those spots seem over-exposed, hence the confusing lighting conditions perhaps? little ice mounts? cool in any case if visible from phoenix!
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May 22 2008, 03:06 PM
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#188
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The Poet Dude Group: Moderator Posts: 5551 Joined: 15-March 04 From: Kendal, Cumbria, UK Member No.: 60 |
some of those spots seem over-exposed, hence the confusing lighting conditions perhaps? little ice mounts? cool in any case if visible from phoenix! Yeah, I thought "over-exposed" too when I saw them, but that raises the question of WHAT is being over-exposed... what is so much brighter there that it made HiRISE squint? The more I look at it the more I think the feature in that 3rd image is the side of a trench rather than a ridge... what happened there? A collapse of some kind? I've also noticed LOTS of small dark spots dotted over the image, like little drops of ink. They're puzzling, too... Edit: just been looking at #3 again... now I'm seeing a ridge... I give up! Anyone got any ideas? -------------------- |
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May 22 2008, 03:17 PM
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#189
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 2785 Joined: 10-November 06 From: Pasadena, CA Member No.: 1345 |
To me, in this image it looks like the polygonal terrain is organized at three different levels.
The really big "cracks" in the image above would be the borders between the meta-polygon clusters. But they shouldn't be cracks, they are little cute rock walls (a garden gnome would look right at home here). The borders should be little walls of rock that has been shoved to the edges of the frozen soil due to mutliple freeze-thaw cycles. They should have uniform relief and thickness along the border that might be dependent on the pattern scale. Regular polygon border should be X high and wide, Meso-cluster borders should be higher and much wider Meta-cluster borders should be even higher and even much more wider. It would be just so beyond cool if all three types of pattern borders were visible from the Phoenix landing site. -Mike -------------------- Some higher resolution images available at my photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/31678681@N07/
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May 22 2008, 03:38 PM
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#190
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 2785 Joined: 10-November 06 From: Pasadena, CA Member No.: 1345 |
Here is a freely available reference:
Mangold et al. JGR 109 (2004) E08001. Spatial relationships between patterned ground and ground ice detected by the Neutron Spectrometer on Mars. doi: 10.1029/2004JE002235. (Figure 1a shows the sorted stone polygons) -Mike -------------------- Some higher resolution images available at my photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/31678681@N07/
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May 22 2008, 04:06 PM
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#191
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2920 Joined: 14-February 06 From: Very close to the Pyrénées Mountains (France) Member No.: 682 |
What's that then? Picture one : Backshell and parachute Picture two : heatshield Picture three : Phoenix landing site Where have you been since Phoenix landing? -------------------- |
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May 22 2008, 09:47 PM
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#192
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 2785 Joined: 10-November 06 From: Pasadena, CA Member No.: 1345 |
Bingo! Found an even better freely available reference for polygonal terrain near the Mars Phoenix site (apologies if it's been linked before):
Haltigin et al LPS 39 (2008) Abstract 2475. "Comparative Morphometric Analysis of Polygonal Terrain at Potential Mars Phoenix Landing Sites." The cracks are troughs bound by two shoulder-like ridges. As the terrain "sets up" the troughs widen and the ridges get bigger. And another freely-available abstract describes Devon Island as an Earth analog for the Phoenix site, (with a caution that some of the polygonal terrain studied on Devon Island could be quite blocky with relief up to 1.5 m) Desportes et al LPS 38 (2007) Abstract 2341. "Periglacial Polygon Fields on Devon Island, High Arctic, as Possible Analogs for High-Latitude Polygonal Terrain on Mars: Implications for Phoenix." [OK, now I'm getting a little more worried...] -Mike -------------------- Some higher resolution images available at my photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/31678681@N07/
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May 23 2008, 11:23 AM
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#193
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Member Group: Members Posts: 646 Joined: 23-December 05 From: Forest of Dean Member No.: 617 |
And another freely-available abstract describes Devon Island as an Earth analog for the Phoenix site, (with a caution that some of the polygonal terrain studied on Devon Island could be quite blocky with relief up to 1.5 m) [...] [OK, now I'm getting a little more worried...] I hadn't seen that specific paper before, but had found some other papers talking about horizontal and vertical relief on Devon Island - it must be a poster-child for polygonal frost heave. So, as someone else said, even if EDL goes perfectly, disaster could strike at the very last moment. Ah well, it'll keep things interesting on Sunday. Reminds me of a nice bit in a recent post on the Phoenix blog: QUOTE While most of us are not involved in the flying of the spacecraft or the landing events, we are all very interested in news from JPL of how it's going. (emphasis mine). Understatement or what? The intestinal fortitude required to watch 5-10 years' worth on one's career possibly going "foom!" is more than I can imagine... ** Phoenix lands in: 2 days, 12:37:02 ** -------------------- --
Viva software libre! |
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May 23 2008, 03:15 PM
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#194
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The Poet Dude Group: Moderator Posts: 5551 Joined: 15-March 04 From: Kendal, Cumbria, UK Member No.: 60 |
Okay, these features are definitely trenches or ditches of some kind...
Really don't want a leg coming down in something like that now, do we..? -------------------- |
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May 23 2008, 03:16 PM
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#195
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The Poet Dude Group: Moderator Posts: 5551 Joined: 15-March 04 From: Kendal, Cumbria, UK Member No.: 60 |
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