Rosetta - Early Orbital Operations at Comet 67P C-G, August 6, 2014 - November 13, 2014 |
Rosetta - Early Orbital Operations at Comet 67P C-G, August 6, 2014 - November 13, 2014 |
Aug 6 2014, 09:29 AM
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#1
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Senior Member Group: Admin Posts: 3108 Joined: 21-December 05 From: Canberra, Australia Member No.: 615 |
Cheers at the European Space Operations Centre.
Well done! Rosetta has arrived Time for science!!!!!!! |
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Aug 6 2014, 09:46 AM
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#2
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2346 Joined: 7-December 12 Member No.: 6780 |
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Aug 6 2014, 09:52 AM
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#3
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Senior Member Group: Admin Posts: 3108 Joined: 21-December 05 From: Canberra, Australia Member No.: 615 |
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Aug 6 2014, 09:59 AM
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 550 Joined: 1-May 06 From: Scotland (Ecosse, Escocia) Member No.: 759 |
They are saying Rosetta is now in a heliocentric orbit matching the comet's, on the sunward side, and will continue to move along at 100km distance without orbiting
the comet for some time yet. Being closer to the sun its orbital velocity is naturally somewhat greater, and it slowly gains ground moving ahead of the comet. Every 4 days or so they brake and fall back behind the comet, then catch up again, describing a triangular path which maintains the 100km distance. Looking forward to some new pictures... |
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Aug 6 2014, 10:18 AM
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 1-August 14 Member No.: 7227 |
Looking forward to some new pictures... (GIF) Arriving... http://blog.vitotechnology.com/?p=7165 Final approach animation (real pictures) (3 MB gif) http://www.esa.int/spaceinimages/Images/20...mation_6_August MOD: Replaced (awesome) large in line GIFs with links |
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Aug 6 2014, 10:20 AM
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 1-August 14 Member No.: 7227 |
Is the rotation period known?
Or where can I find images with original timestamps? |
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Aug 6 2014, 10:30 AM
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 201 Joined: 16-December 13 Member No.: 7067 |
I was putting together a final approach animation - but there are a lot of unreleased NavCam images..
So I slowed down the final 5 frames of their animation to allow a better look http://i.imgur.com/LiPmKB1.gif EDIT: My 1 image per day approach version : http://i.imgur.com/VuYZN78.gif |
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Aug 6 2014, 10:48 AM
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 813 Joined: 29-December 05 From: NE Oh, USA Member No.: 627 |
What a bizzare shape! Awesome!
Well done ROSETTA team.... and thank you for taking us along! Craig |
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Aug 6 2014, 11:31 AM
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#9
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Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 5172 Joined: 4-August 05 From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth Member No.: 454 |
-------------------- My website - My Patreon - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
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Aug 6 2014, 11:33 AM
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#10
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Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 5172 Joined: 4-August 05 From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth Member No.: 454 |
Possible landing sites marked as green spots on illumination model of shape model (Youtube)
There's a coordinate system and poles marked on that animation, too. -------------------- My website - My Patreon - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
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Aug 6 2014, 11:43 AM
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#11
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2086 Joined: 13-February 10 From: Ontario Member No.: 5221 |
New OSIRIS stuff in a few hours, according to the PI.
A 2D map of C-G seems like a tough order; the projection math alone... |
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Aug 6 2014, 12:04 PM
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#12
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
What a moment in history.
And big shout-out to Astro0 for the terrific Forum banner celebrating this event! -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Aug 6 2014, 12:33 PM
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#13
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Senior Member Group: Admin Posts: 3108 Joined: 21-December 05 From: Canberra, Australia Member No.: 615 |
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Aug 6 2014, 12:40 PM
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#14
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Senior Member Group: Admin Posts: 3108 Joined: 21-December 05 From: Canberra, Australia Member No.: 615 |
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Aug 6 2014, 12:48 PM
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#15
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 16-October 12 From: Pennsylvania Member No.: 6711 |
Indeed
There is an incredible amount variable terrain for such a small object. Could sublimation be the cause or is it something else? |
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Aug 6 2014, 12:56 PM
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#16
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2173 Joined: 28-December 04 From: Florida, USA Member No.: 132 |
In the press briefing it was noted that the blue represents constant shadow, the red constant light and the yellow shows areas with dark and light periods. Also from the briefing, they want the landing area 'to have a clear day/night cycle for scientific reasons.'
Screen shots from the video linked by Emily in post 10. |
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Aug 6 2014, 12:57 PM
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#17
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2346 Joined: 7-December 12 Member No.: 6780 |
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Aug 6 2014, 01:03 PM
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 1-August 14 Member No.: 7227 |
How to figure out scale in these wonderful images?
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Aug 6 2014, 01:07 PM
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#19
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 3-August 12 Member No.: 6454 |
Indeed There is an incredible amount variable terrain for such a small object. Could sublimation be the cause or is it something else? Just a guess..... but it looks to me like the smaller component's shape, resembling half of an apple core, is the result of large amounts of material spalling off during the initial collision that formed this bizarre comet nucleus, leaving just a conical central part at the contact point - which subsequently filled in a bit with dust & debris..... |
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Aug 6 2014, 01:09 PM
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 201 Joined: 16-December 13 Member No.: 7067 |
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Aug 6 2014, 01:11 PM
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#21
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Member Group: Members Posts: 700 Joined: 3-December 04 From: Boulder, Colorado, USA Member No.: 117 |
Wow. And spooky! This was designed by Tim Burton (or maybe Terry Gilliam)
John |
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Aug 6 2014, 01:16 PM
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#22
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2173 Joined: 28-December 04 From: Florida, USA Member No.: 132 |
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Aug 6 2014, 01:32 PM
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#23
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Member Group: Members Posts: 149 Joined: 18-June 08 Member No.: 4216 |
Overview image of the imges posted by Astro0, ADMIN EDIT: Please do not requote images when posting.and two images showing the zone of major dust/volatile release: Volatiles seem to be emitted primarily from the "neck". Is this similar to what was observed at Hartley 2 I wonder? |
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Aug 6 2014, 01:51 PM
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#24
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Solar System Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 10167 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Canada Member No.: 227 |
No, it's the opposite of Hartley 2.
Phil -------------------- ... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Also to be found posting similar content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke Maps for download (free PD: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...Cartography.pdf NOTE: everything created by me which I post on UMSF is considered to be in the public domain (NOT CC, public domain) |
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Aug 6 2014, 02:07 PM
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#25
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2173 Joined: 28-December 04 From: Florida, USA Member No.: 132 |
Maybe the neck jets represent the sublimation of superficial ice that collected in cold sinks at the end of the comet's last pass rather than indicating a deep structure of ice in the neck.
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Aug 6 2014, 02:33 PM
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#26
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2346 Joined: 7-December 12 Member No.: 6780 |
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Aug 6 2014, 03:38 PM
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#27
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Member Group: Members Posts: 166 Joined: 20-September 05 From: North Texas Member No.: 503 |
In the press briefing it was noted that the blue represents constant shadow, the red constant light and the yellow shows areas with dark and light periods. Also from the briefing, they want the landing area 'to have a clear day/night cycle for scientific reasons.' ADMIN EDIT: Please do not requote images when posting.Screen shots from the video linked by Emily in post 10. If there are no significant engineering or safety constraints, I hope that the landing site selection committee avoids the areas at the end of either lobe of the comet. There you would have a great view of the local surface and dark space above. But if they can safely land in one of those green spots closer to the neck of the comet, just imagine the spectacular view - not only of the local surface, but of the other half of the comet looming overhead. |
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Aug 6 2014, 04:07 PM
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 796 Joined: 27-February 08 From: Heart of Europe Member No.: 4057 |
Stereo image of the 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko. One image is original from OSIRIS camera (date 3.8.2014).
Second one is synthetic image obtained from OSIRIS and NavCam images. Resolution is 5.3 m/pix. Credit for original images: ESA/Rosetta/MPS for OSIRIS Team MPS/UPD/LAM/IAA/SSO/INTA/UPM/.DASP/IDA/NavCam. -------------------- |
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Aug 6 2014, 04:08 PM
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#29
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Member Group: Members Posts: 796 Joined: 27-February 08 From: Heart of Europe Member No.: 4057 |
-------------------- |
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Aug 6 2014, 04:37 PM
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 470 Joined: 24-March 04 From: Finland Member No.: 63 |
Wonderful achievement to be here after so many years! Congrats to ESA.
To me the surface looks like snow banks shaped after a fierce storm. -------------------- Antti Kuosmanen
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Aug 6 2014, 04:53 PM
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#31
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 45 Joined: 11-March 05 From: Canada Member No.: 188 |
How to figure out scale in these wonderful images? Here's a cool size comparison with London from the BBC: http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/7675...a_comet_624.jpg |
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Aug 6 2014, 05:08 PM
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#32
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Member Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 28-October 12 Member No.: 6732 |
... But if they can safely land in one of those green spots closer to the neck of the comet, just imagine the spectacular view - not only of the local surface, but of the other half of the comet looming overhead. The cameras of Philae are pointed at the ground, thus - if all goes well - we would not be able to see the grandiose scenery overhead. |
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Aug 6 2014, 05:30 PM
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#33
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2086 Joined: 13-February 10 From: Ontario Member No.: 5221 |
The cameras of Philae are pointed at the ground, thus - if all goes well - we would not be able to see the grandiose scenery overhead. Some are pointed at the ground, but others are horizontal, Huygens style. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1IFU6kxcD8 |
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Aug 6 2014, 05:43 PM
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#34
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1074 Joined: 21-September 07 From: Québec, Canada Member No.: 3908 |
Some are pointed at the ground, but others are horizontal, Huygens style. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1IFU6kxcD8 Description of Çiva (Comet nucleus Infrared and Visible Analyzer) here. |
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Aug 6 2014, 06:05 PM
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#35
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Member Group: Members Posts: 106 Joined: 25-November 04 From: Dublin, Ireland Member No.: 113 |
I can't agree with the BBC graphic. The base unit is 4x2 km, while their graphic conflates the head into the scene. I am at Frankfurt Airport, so can't cut and paste. But Hal Weaver's Slide 51 refers. I have been at every Voyager encounter and more besides. This rocks!
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Aug 6 2014, 06:14 PM
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#36
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Member Group: Members Posts: 102 Joined: 29-January 10 From: Poland Member No.: 5205 |
And here is cross-eye version of the same stereo image: This is fantastic 3D picture! Great work! I love it. -------------------- Adam Hurcewicz from Poland
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Aug 6 2014, 06:15 PM
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#37
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 7-January 13 Member No.: 6832 |
I have not seen much discussion on the probability that a stray particle emitted from the Comet could damage either the orbiter or lander.
Are there any papers or information on this possibility? As the Comet continues to increase activity as it approaches perihelion I would think the probability of this happening will go up. I assume they will try to avoid the areas on the Comet with active venting for both the Orbiter and Lander although the Orbiter probably can't stay away from the active areas all the time, and the active areas should evolve with time as we approach perihelion. |
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Aug 6 2014, 07:21 PM
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#38
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Member Group: Members Posts: 796 Joined: 27-February 08 From: Heart of Europe Member No.: 4057 |
Brilliant Machi, and very useful - thanks! This is fantastic 3D picture! Great work! I love it. You're welcome! -------------------- |
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Aug 6 2014, 07:33 PM
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#39
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Member Group: Members Posts: 401 Joined: 5-January 07 From: Manchester England Member No.: 1563 |
Maybe the neck jets represent the sublimation of superficial ice that collected in cold sinks at the end of the comet's last pass rather than indicating a deep structure of ice in the neck. Do the zones of most emission roughly coincide with those that receive the least sunlight? -------------------- |
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Aug 6 2014, 08:10 PM
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#40
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Member Group: Members Posts: 334 Joined: 11-December 12 From: The home of Corby Crater (Corby-England) Member No.: 6783 |
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Aug 6 2014, 08:54 PM
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#41
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Solar System Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 10167 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Canada Member No.: 227 |
Well... yes, I think it probably is!
Phil -------------------- ... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Also to be found posting similar content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke Maps for download (free PD: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...Cartography.pdf NOTE: everything created by me which I post on UMSF is considered to be in the public domain (NOT CC, public domain) |
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Aug 6 2014, 09:01 PM
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#42
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Member Group: Members Posts: 796 Joined: 27-February 08 From: Heart of Europe Member No.: 4057 |
-------------------- |
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Aug 6 2014, 09:12 PM
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#43
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 88 Joined: 8-May 14 Member No.: 7185 |
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Aug 6 2014, 09:12 PM
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#44
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Member Group: Members Posts: 334 Joined: 11-December 12 From: The home of Corby Crater (Corby-England) Member No.: 6783 |
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Aug 6 2014, 09:44 PM
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#45
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Member Group: Members Posts: 334 Joined: 11-December 12 From: The home of Corby Crater (Corby-England) Member No.: 6783 |
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Aug 6 2014, 10:40 PM
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#46
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Solar System Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 10167 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Canada Member No.: 227 |
-------------------- ... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Also to be found posting similar content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke Maps for download (free PD: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...Cartography.pdf NOTE: everything created by me which I post on UMSF is considered to be in the public domain (NOT CC, public domain) |
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Aug 7 2014, 12:41 AM
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#47
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Senior Member Group: Admin Posts: 3108 Joined: 21-December 05 From: Canberra, Australia Member No.: 615 |
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Aug 7 2014, 01:24 AM
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#48
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 4-August 14 From: St. Louis, Missouri Member No.: 7230 |
It would appear that the neck is an "erosional" feature (not sure if erosion is the right word), and maybe not the contact boundary between 2 separate bodies. At some point in the future, the neck will sublime away and the comet will split in two. Long time lurker here jumping into the discussion of this strange object. I agree and have thought for several days now that 67P/C-G just didn't look right to be a contact binary. Looking at several of the recent highest resolution images, there are large-scale features in the 'neck' area which appear to be somewhat contiguous from the 'head' to the 'body'. These appear to exhibit similar types of features and textures as is seen in both lobes i.e. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuWJaVSIcAAVgZ9.jpg:large I think a contact binary resulting from a low-speed impact of 2 bodies and subsequent gap infilling with loose material may not likely exhibit features like those seen... somewhat linear and contiguous higher density erosion resistant features and surfaces. Jets of dust in the long exposure image seem to be emanating primarily from the neck area; likely from the higher albedo areas. If the neck resulted from increased ablation rates in this area of an assumed initial single somewhat spherical cometary body, quite a bit of material has been lost compared to the 2 lobes. On the other hand, 103P/Hartley and 19/P Borrelly, both of which had a bowling pin shape had jets emanating primarily from the lobes. |
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Aug 7 2014, 01:31 AM
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#49
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 4-August 14 From: St. Louis, Missouri Member No.: 7230 |
The 3D image is absolutely incredible! I hope that models are eventually made for educational purposes. Would be cool to have on a desk stand.
Even cooler would be a mobile of all spacecraft-visited comets. http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...st&id=33441 |
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Aug 7 2014, 02:42 AM
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#50
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1276 Joined: 25-November 04 Member No.: 114 |
What a strange object.
Reminds me of a broken Wasp Nest. |
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Aug 7 2014, 05:09 AM
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#51
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14432 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
The 3D image is absolutely incredible! I hope that models are eventually made for educational purposes. Once shape-file data is out there, I'll certainly make a 3D printable STL file that people can get printed at Shapeways or other 3D printing sites. I've already done Eros, Itokawa and Vesta ( and others ) http://nasa3d.arc.nasa.gov/search/ellison/model |
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Aug 7 2014, 05:30 AM
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#52
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Solar System Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 10167 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Canada Member No.: 227 |
"On the other hand, 103P/Hartley and 19/P Borrelly, both of which had a bowling pin shape had jets emanating primarily from the lobes. "
Not Borrelly. Its main jets were from the central smooth area. http://nmp.jpl.nasa.gov/ds1/img/borrelly_3.jpg Phil -------------------- ... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Also to be found posting similar content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke Maps for download (free PD: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...Cartography.pdf NOTE: everything created by me which I post on UMSF is considered to be in the public domain (NOT CC, public domain) |
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Aug 7 2014, 05:58 AM
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#53
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Member Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 28-October 12 Member No.: 6732 |
Some are pointed at the ground, but others are horizontal, Huygens style. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1IFU6kxcD8 ÇIVA-P cameras are inclined downward. You could see the local horizon, but if they "land in one of those green spots closer to the neck of the comet" you would not be able to see "the other half of the comet looming overhead". |
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Aug 7 2014, 06:42 AM
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#54
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 9-August 12 From: London, UK Member No.: 6521 |
Once shape-file data is out there, I'll certainly make a 3D printable STL file that people can get printed at Shapeways or other 3D printing sites. I've already done Eros, Itokawa and Vesta ( and others ) http://nasa3d.arc.nasa.gov/search/ellison/model They look good, Doug. Do you provide textures and are the models u-v'd or are they just for printing? I should say I don't often have the time to post here, mostly lurking, but this mission is amazing, living up to all the promise and more. I remember sticking it in the calendar back at the launch date telling myself not to get hopes up too high as there were so many risks to overcome, but kudos to everyone involved in this one. - Michael |
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Aug 7 2014, 06:55 AM
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#55
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2086 Joined: 13-February 10 From: Ontario Member No.: 5221 |
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Aug 7 2014, 10:15 AM
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#56
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Member Group: Members Posts: 796 Joined: 27-February 08 From: Heart of Europe Member No.: 4057 |
Descent imaging by ROLIS is limited by onboard memory. So plan is that ROLIS will take few pictures after release from the orbiter, those will be immediately transfered to the orbiter and
then erased. FOV size is easy to find, because if you know distance, you now FOV size on comet. From distance 1000 meters FOV diameter is 1000 meters and resolution is ~1 meter. Before touchdown ROLIS will take up to 8 images from maximum distance 25-50 meters (FOV 25-50 meters). Only few last images will be better in terms of resolution than best possible images from OSIRIS camera. CIVA has 60° FOV. Its cameras has FOV tilted down by 15° (25° for stereo camera) from the Philae's baseplate ("horizontal" plane). So it can see ~270 meters high peaks in distance 1000 meters (this of course depends on actual tilt of the lander). Source: Space Science Reviews 128. -------------------- |
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Aug 7 2014, 01:24 PM
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#57
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 5-September 07 Member No.: 3662 |
Once shape-file data is out there, I'll certainly make a 3D printable STL file that people can get printed at Shapeways or other 3D printing sites. I've already done Eros, Itokawa and Vesta ( and others ) http://nasa3d.arc.nasa.gov/search/ellison/model Any chance of Gaspra? I did some work on that back before the Galileo flyby; it would be great to print it out. Thanks! Jeff |
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Aug 7 2014, 02:57 PM
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#58
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 4-August 14 From: St. Louis, Missouri Member No.: 7230 |
New images are up:
http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/2014/08/07/co...tch-5-6-august/ |
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Aug 7 2014, 04:13 PM
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#59
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Member Group: Members Posts: 495 Joined: 12-February 12 Member No.: 6336 |
The closeup is what got my attention.
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Aug 7 2014, 08:13 PM
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#60
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 22-October 09 Member No.: 4990 |
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Aug 7 2014, 08:15 PM
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#61
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Member Group: Members Posts: 796 Joined: 27-February 08 From: Heart of Europe Member No.: 4057 |
BBC released very interesting footage from (evidently) OSIRIS camera. Images are from 3. August 2014.
Now it's possible to derive stereo images directly from the published images. This is comparison with my "synthetic" stereo image of 67P (it's the lower pair). You can see that top left image is exactly the same image as lower right image. EDIT: This version was deleted and was replaced by this one. -------------------- |
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Aug 7 2014, 09:08 PM
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#62
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Member Group: Members Posts: 866 Joined: 15-March 05 From: Santa Cruz, CA Member No.: 196 |
heres a <sloppy> crosseye of the topography inside that shadowed 'hole' area inside the pole of the smaller clump at right in machi's stereo, this based on the sequence Emily posted earlier
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Aug 7 2014, 09:20 PM
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#63
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Member Group: Members Posts: 334 Joined: 11-December 12 From: The home of Corby Crater (Corby-England) Member No.: 6783 |
What is the estimated mass of this object?
What is the mass of the lander? Depending on the above, the gravitational pull on the lander may be negligable, so it could be.. pick a spot-any spot. |
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Aug 7 2014, 09:33 PM
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#64
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Solar System Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 10167 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Canada Member No.: 227 |
It's more about local geology and safety. How smooth is the area? Is it coarse-grained or fine-grained, or maybe quite solid? (from thermal inertia). Is there any evidence of volatiles, or is it depleted, baked dry? Is the area active during the run-up to landing, or is it inert?
Phil -------------------- ... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Also to be found posting similar content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke Maps for download (free PD: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...Cartography.pdf NOTE: everything created by me which I post on UMSF is considered to be in the public domain (NOT CC, public domain) |
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Aug 7 2014, 10:16 PM
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#65
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2173 Joined: 28-December 04 From: Florida, USA Member No.: 132 |
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Aug 7 2014, 10:36 PM
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#66
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 4247 Joined: 17-January 05 Member No.: 152 |
BBC released very interesting footage from (evidently) OSIRIS camera. You should find slightly better image quality from the original BBC story here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-28659783 |
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Aug 7 2014, 11:18 PM
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#67
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Member Group: Members Posts: 796 Joined: 27-February 08 From: Heart of Europe Member No.: 4057 |
Yes, I should.
I saw that article but I have disabled automatic playback for flash so I overlooked this video and Google found the other one. BTW, here is animated GIF. -------------------- |
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Aug 8 2014, 12:02 AM
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#68
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Member Group: Members Posts: 201 Joined: 16-December 13 Member No.: 7067 |
I had to grab larger frames from the video and slow it down
http://i.imgur.com/T8oZl7a.gif Two days of utter amazement so far Edit: album of the screen captures: http://imgur.com/a/0Lo1E#0 |
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Aug 8 2014, 12:27 AM
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#69
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14432 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
They look good, Doug. Do you provide textures and are the models u-v'd or are they just for printing? Nope - just un-textured STL's for printing. Any chance of Gaspra? I'll look into it - but it would be pretty low res so might not be worth the effort. |
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Aug 8 2014, 12:41 AM
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#70
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 4-April 06 From: San Francisco, CA Member No.: 732 |
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Aug 8 2014, 01:00 AM
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#71
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Member Group: Members Posts: 796 Joined: 27-February 08 From: Heart of Europe Member No.: 4057 |
Thanks! It's impossible with my Internet connection to grab this video at full resolution. Here is very interesting view on the head of the comet 67P from two grabbed images. Credit for original images: ESA/Rosetta/MPS for OSIRIS Team MPS/UPD/LAM/IAA/SSO/INTA/UPM/DASP/IDA. -------------------- |
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Aug 8 2014, 01:13 AM
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#72
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Member Group: Members Posts: 796 Joined: 27-February 08 From: Heart of Europe Member No.: 4057 |
And here is comparison between stereo images with both real images (lower one) and with one synthetic image (top) in the pair.
Thanks to anticitizen2 both pairs have now same resolution but the lower pair is still somewhat blurred. I deleted the older version. -------------------- |
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Aug 8 2014, 02:18 AM
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#73
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Member Group: Members Posts: 201 Joined: 16-December 13 Member No.: 7067 |
And thank you for the 3D images! Those have truly brought me there next to the comet.
I feel like I owe you a dozen gasps of amazement from the people around me as I showed them your image of the comet in 3D |
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Aug 8 2014, 03:16 AM
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#74
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 4-August 14 From: St. Louis, Missouri Member No.: 7230 |
The processed photos released to date all have good contrast and likely have been brightened and stretched to some extent. Have any been processed to show the comet's actual appearance?
I haven't seen much discussion on albedo except mention that 67P/C-G is very dark, as would be expected if much of the nonvolatile remnants on the surface are similar in composition to carbonaceous chondrite meteorites. Karl |
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Aug 8 2014, 05:39 AM
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#75
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
INCREDIBLE, Daniel--thank you!!!!
In my opinion this is by far the most classically 'alien'-looking little world examined by spacecraft to date--straight out of a 1950s B-movie. Amazing to think of how different the processes by which all these odd, jagged landforms arose must be from those we've observed elsewhere. With any luck, though, we'll be able to see those processes in action a bit. -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Aug 8 2014, 06:27 AM
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#76
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Member Group: Members Posts: 149 Joined: 18-June 08 Member No.: 4216 |
The smaller lobe (the one with the ``hole'') reminds me of the front part
of a Klingon Bird of Prey. |
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Aug 8 2014, 06:42 AM
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#77
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 9-August 12 From: London, UK Member No.: 6521 |
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Aug 8 2014, 08:45 AM
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#78
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 4-August 14 From: St. Louis, Missouri Member No.: 7230 |
In my opinion this is by far the most classically 'alien'-looking little world examined by spacecraft to date--straight out of a 1950s B-movie. Amazing to think of how different the processes by which all these odd, jagged landforms arose must be from those we've observed elsewhere. With any luck, though, we'll be able to see those processes in action a bit. 'Standing' in the neck area one would see the landscape curve to nearly vertical on both sides while rapidly dropping off on the other 2 sides. In some areas adjacent to the neck the landscape would curve to be nearly overhead (like in a rotating donut-shaped space habitat). What a strange place! |
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Aug 8 2014, 08:54 AM
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#79
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Member Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 28-October 12 Member No.: 6732 |
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Aug 8 2014, 10:23 AM
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#80
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2173 Joined: 28-December 04 From: Florida, USA Member No.: 132 |
The processed photos released to date all have good contrast and likely have been brightened and stretched to some extent. Have any been processed to show the comet's actual appearance? The scientist hosting the press briefing refered to the joke about a blank sheet of paper being presented as a drawing of a white cow in a snow storm in saying that he could just about present a totaly black screen as a 'true image' of the comet. |
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Aug 8 2014, 11:58 AM
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#81
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 16-October 12 From: Pennsylvania Member No.: 6711 |
It's for the best, I tend to think that our minds don't know how to handle objects with very high albedos. The moon looks bright enough to us but its albedo is only 12%!
Plus the camera would get saturated. |
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Aug 8 2014, 01:47 PM
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#82
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 31-July 14 Member No.: 7226 |
Hello
First, think to Adelson's chessboard : http://web.mit.edu/persci/people/adelson/c...w_illusion.html As an example of "true" Moon rendition, using a small compact camera I shot a piece of wood charcoal (its albedo is similar to the Moon one) under Sun light in automatic mode : Light measurement was "spot" on background, on left and center, the background is a 18% grey chart, on right, it is current black paper. - Center is the standard result automatically optimized by the camera : the dark subject was slightly enlighted - Left was shot with asked 1IL underexposure, in order to obtain the official value of 128 for the background. - Right is the standard result automatically optimized by the camera : the dark subject was more enlighted, as well as the background. For me, the most realistic rendition is on left. But on right it shows more shades and details... PS : Note that the light rendition curve of the compact camera is far from linear and probably histogram adaptative, while scientific cameras are nativly linear... |
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Aug 8 2014, 11:36 PM
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#83
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2346 Joined: 7-December 12 Member No.: 6780 |
Rotation rate is 12.7 hours. The circumference drawn by the 4km length of the comet ( a 2km radius ) is 12.6 km So very roughly - it's doing 1km/hr or 0.28m/sec. V^2/r is thus 0.000039 m/sec^2 Surface gravity is approximated as 10^-3 m/sec^2 3 orders of magnitude higher than the centripetal acceleration due to rotation. Hmm, according to the Wikipedia version, the escape velocity is estimated to 0.46 m/s, corresponding to about 0.33 m/s for a circular orbit. So I'd say within the current uncertainty, respecting the rotation, the resulting surface gravity at the parts most distant to the center of mass is about zero. A significantly more compact body with the same angular momentum would be torn apart. This opens a scenario almost opposing the contact binary approach, meaning head and body could have been broken apart already by centrifugal pseudo-force, and kept together by the stretched "neck", which would give the "rubber" duck metaphor more sense than originally anticipated. This way the inner of the comet would be exposed at the neck. Additional momentum could have been provided by impacts or by YORP. |
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Aug 9 2014, 03:25 AM
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#84
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 4-August 14 From: St. Louis, Missouri Member No.: 7230 |
This photo from the end of the large lobe is particularly interesting to me especially when viewed under magnification...
http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/files/2014/08...ull_image_2.png At 6 o'clock there seems to be layering where bright (icy?) layers show through the mantle of darker material... I count about 6 'steps' climbing to the tall white cliff to the lower left. At 9 o'clock just to left of center there are boulders which are covered in a mantle of the darker material. Also at 9 o'clock to the left of those boulders the mantle of darker material seems to have flowed? over rougher surface features, draping the underlying terrain. At 10 o'clock in the basin there are striations which look to me like some sort of lobate flow/collapse features... perhaps gravel fluidized by sublimation of icy materials underneath. They lead away from the bright cliffs on the left. At about 12 o'clock immediately to the lower left of the large bright boulder there is a small area of evenly spaced striations which may have flowed from a collapse to the upper right. The large smooth area in the center with the small linear features (ice layer?) I suspect is not a dust layer but a layer of gravel as was seen on Itokawa in the Muses Sea. I think most of the fine dust would escape with the outgassing of the comet. I can't wait for higher resolution photos to come down. The geology of this object is so varied. I would bet that the processes which formed all features of the comet and the comet itself will be unraveled over the next few years. |
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Aug 9 2014, 04:42 AM
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#85
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Member Group: Members Posts: 148 Joined: 9-August 11 From: Mason, TX Member No.: 6108 |
This photo from the end of the large lobe is particularly interesting to me especially when viewed under magnification... http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/files/2014/08...ull_image_2.png I wonder whether these "boulders" may be ice features not unlike fumarole "smokers" in Earth's deep underwaters, or snow chimneys. Near the middle top of that image you linked, one object appears to have a hook-shaped shadow, and in the bottom right quarter is what appears to be a cylindrical tower that casts a notably long shadow, almost like the overhead images of Mars dust devils. Comet Hartley 2 (EPOXI mission) seemed to have these as well. Yes, more closer! [Edit: not Borrelly but Hartley. Thanks, Phil!] -------------------- --
Don |
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Aug 9 2014, 07:19 AM
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#86
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Member Group: Members Posts: 495 Joined: 12-February 12 Member No.: 6336 |
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Aug 9 2014, 10:14 AM
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#87
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Member Group: Members Posts: 796 Joined: 27-February 08 From: Heart of Europe Member No.: 4057 |
I found multiple articles where authors use known cometary rotation periods for determination of limits for shapes and density.
Very interesting is fig.15. in Photometry of cometary nuclei: Rotation rates, coloursand a comparison with Kuiper Belt Objects by C. Snodgrass, S. C. Lowry and A. Fitzsimmons. INCREDIBLE, Daniel--thank you!!!! In my opinion this is by far the most classically 'alien'-looking little world examined by spacecraft to date--straight out of a 1950s B-movie. Amazing to think of how different the processes by which all these odd, jagged landforms arose must be from those we've observed elsewhere. With any luck, though, we'll be able to see those processes in action a bit. Yes, this is beautiful crazy comet. From all comets observed from spacecrafts I think that this one is the best for detailed investigations. I hoped that 67P will be similar to the Wild 2 and it's actually even more crazy than "too wild Wild 2"! -------------------- |
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Aug 9 2014, 10:26 AM
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#88
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Member Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 1-August 14 Member No.: 7227 |
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Aug 9 2014, 03:10 PM
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#89
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Member Group: Members Posts: 107 Joined: 1-August 14 Member No.: 7227 |
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Aug 9 2014, 04:25 PM
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#90
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Member Group: Members Posts: 796 Joined: 27-February 08 From: Heart of Europe Member No.: 4057 |
It's image which is combination of two images. It can be obtained by warping to another image or reprojection to another image.
I haven't automatic software for this so I did this manually in Sqirlz Morph. I gave example of this here. This process is time consuming and its quality is dependent on the author (as it's not automatic) but it's usable when other methods are unreachable. -------------------- |
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Aug 9 2014, 07:53 PM
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#91
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1641 Joined: 5-March 05 From: Boulder, CO Member No.: 184 |
I wonder whether these "boulders" may be ice features not unlike fumarole "smokers" in Earth's deep underwaters, or snow chimneys. Near the middle top of that image you linked, one object appears to have a hook-shaped shadow, and in the bottom right quarter is what appears to be a cylindrical tower that casts a notably long shadow, almost like the overhead images of Mars dust devils. Comet Borrelly seemed to have these as well. Yes, more closer! Yes the pointed shadows and hook shape are pretty fanciful. Sounds like a nice candidate landing site, except the green dots on their landing site map aren't that close by. Maybe there are other "chimneys" that coincide with the green landing dot candidates. These would be ones in the yellow region of the map with alternating light/dark periods of sunlight. Any chimneys that would also be in view of the active neck area would be an added bonus. On the other hand, a landing site might have to be smooth enough to be safe, depending on their navigation accuracy. -------------------- Steve [ my home page and planetary maps page ]
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Aug 9 2014, 08:03 PM
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#92
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Solar System Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 10167 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Canada Member No.: 227 |
Those pics were of Hartley, not Borrelly.
Phil -------------------- ... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Also to be found posting similar content on https://mastodon.social/@PhilStooke Maps for download (free PD: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...Cartography.pdf NOTE: everything created by me which I post on UMSF is considered to be in the public domain (NOT CC, public domain) |
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Aug 9 2014, 09:25 PM
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#93
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 4-August 14 From: St. Louis, Missouri Member No.: 7230 |
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Aug 9 2014, 10:17 PM
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#94
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Member Group: Members Posts: 754 Joined: 9-February 07 Member No.: 1700 |
Is the lander still asleep? If so, will it be powered up only after touchdown? Searching the web, I've learned there are batteries that can/will be used after touchdown and recharged once the solar panels are unfurled - but I'm curious to know if we are aware of the status of its instruments and batteries at this point. Thanks!
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Aug 9 2014, 10:24 PM
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#95
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Member Group: Members Posts: 796 Joined: 27-February 08 From: Heart of Europe Member No.: 4057 |
Lander is awake from February or March. All instruments and batteries are fine (you can find articles about it on Rosetta's blog).
It has two different batteries. Non-rechargeable for high priority science after landing and rechargeable for long term operations. -------------------- |
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Aug 9 2014, 11:13 PM
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#96
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 4247 Joined: 17-January 05 Member No.: 152 |
one object appears to have a hook-shaped shadow, and in the bottom right quarter is what appears to be a cylindrical tower that casts a notably long shadow I think the hook is an illusion: I see the lower "hook" part of the shadow as the shadow of a second, smaller boulder immediately below the larger one. And the long shadows towards the bottom of the frame seem to be the result of a very low illumination angle. That's not to say that this isn't an insanely cool place! |
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Aug 10 2014, 07:48 AM
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#97
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Member Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 28-October 12 Member No.: 6732 |
Is the lander still asleep? ... Go to the Philae Virtual Control Room - telemetry in (almost) real time. |
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Aug 10 2014, 08:12 AM
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#98
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2086 Joined: 13-February 10 From: Ontario Member No.: 5221 |
From August to October 2014:
QUOTE Philae Science Observations during Rosetta Comet approach .This might be a sign of images of the solar panels like the 2007 Mars flyby (the cameras have to be tested prior to landing anyway, right?). |
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Aug 10 2014, 10:36 AM
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#99
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2921 Joined: 14-February 06 From: Very close to the Pyrénées Mountains (France) Member No.: 682 |
From rosetta.jpl.nasa.gov... Couldn't copy paste the link which show a picture of the target by the COSISCOPE camera.
Now that comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimernko is within our reach, Rosetta's mass spectrometer COSIMA, managed by the Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research in Germany, is beginning to reach for cometary dust. Literally. On Sunday 10 August 2014, COSIMA will expose its first of 24 targetholders aiming to collect single dust particles. This might take a while. After all, from dust particle modeling, 67P/C-G's coma is still comparable to a high-quality cleanroom. But, as 67P/C-G travels closer to the Sun along its orbit, the comet's activity will increase and more dust will be within reach. For now, we are planning to keep the target exposed for one month, but checking on a weekly basis if the model predictions are not too low and if we are lucky. COSIMA's targets were developed and prepared by the Universität der Bundeswehr in Germany. Each of these targets measures one square centimetre. It consists of a gold plate covered by a 30 µm thick layer of "metal black" (gold in this case), which has a very low albedo due to its high porosity. Tests in the laboratory have shown that this layer should decelerate and capture cometary dust particles impacting with velocities of ~100 m/s. The grazing incidence illumination by LED's combined with the very low albedo of the target will provide high contrast for collected cometary grains, in particular if they stick out of the "gold black" layer. As a reference, an image of this target has been obtained before cometary dust exposure on 19 July 2014 by the COSISCOPE camera, COSIMA's built-in microscope which was developed by Institut d'Astrophysique Spatiale (CNRS/Université Paris Sud, France). The image shows…. well, basically nothing. But that's the point. We will identify the dust grains we collect on the target's surface by comparison with this empty target. The COSISCOPE microscope will take new images every week from now onwards. The grains we identify will then be analysed in mid-September, thus providing the first in-situ analysis of cometary grains with a high mass resolution. COSIMA uses the method of Secondary Ion Mass Spectrometry. This means that the dust particles are in for quite a ride! They will be fired at with a beam of Indium ions. This will spark individual ions (we say secondary ions) from their surfaces, which will then be analysed with COSIMA's mass spectrometer. All in all, this will help us understand what material cometary dust is made of, and that is the major science goal of COSIMA. -------------------- |
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Aug 10 2014, 11:26 AM
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#100
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 31-July 14 Member No.: 7226 |
Hello
From : http://rosetta.jpl.nasa.gov/news/cosima-reaches-dust A picture of the target by the COSISCOPE camera : Credits: ESA/Rosetta/MPS for COSIMA Team MPS/CSNSM/UNIBW/TUORLA/IWF/IAS/ESA/BUW/MPE/LPC2E/LCM/FMI/UTU/LISA/UOFC/vH&S |
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