Mission: Hayabusa 2 |
Mission: Hayabusa 2 |
Jan 22 2008, 02:59 PM
Post
#1
|
|
Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 58 Joined: 17-September 06 Member No.: 1150 |
JAXA wants to continue with Hayabusa 2. However there is/was a huge fight about the budget. Main problem was the budget for the launch vehicle. 2 months ago or so there was a report which said, that JAXA had to find another launch vehicle or the project gets cancelled. Now the Italian space agency played saviour and overed the VEGA. So finally we might see another Hayabusa in 2011.
It was mentioned here: http://www.jspec.jaxa.jp/080110Final_IPEWG-ProgramBook.pdf |
|
|
Jan 29 2009, 03:28 AM
Post
#2
|
|
Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 60 Joined: 3-January 09 Member No.: 4520 |
I was trying to hunt around for word on what happened with Hayabusa 2's budget crisis. I found a Japanese blogger, Shinya Matsuura, talking about a Q&A session, here (Google Translation to English).
I don't read Japanese, so I'd love to get a better translation of the last few paragraphs of his 8/23 entry than Google Translate's: QUOTE HAYABUSA two of the original plan was for a 2010 launch, and付KANAKAっbudget, and the conditions attached to the implementation of measures to raise the overseas launch, have been slow and loose. I have heard that the 2014 launch talks. No suitable target objects and until now, the chances of that the next 2018 years. In this case, "Marco Polo (HAYABUSA Mark2)" because they wore the timing, "Hayabusa" will automatically disappear (8 / 26 Note: In other words, HAYABUSA and disappear, Japan's asteroid probe, 2003 The launch will be a generous 15 years that it empty. I think it's too bad deal for the success of his mission to you. and above all if the whole 15 years, the technology accumulated in the bush also, they will go and dissipation of planetary science researchers also raised. And of course, at present there is no guarantee the Marco Polo to be launched in 2018). In other words the years 2013 and 2014 will be launched, also failed, even if the overseas launch of the procurement method, H-IIA launch that could. Apparently, Marco Polo is considered a more likely project? And Hayabusa 2 may suffer from both budgetary and orbit issues and fall between the cracks? Little help? |
|
|
Jan 29 2009, 04:44 PM
Post
#3
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 540 Joined: 17-November 05 From: Oklahoma Member No.: 557 |
Not a great advertisement for translation software, I'll say that.
The gist I get out of it is that the blogger doesn't think that there would be any suitable target from 2013 through 2017, and that if you launched in 2018 then the current probe technology would be too outdated (better to start over with a new design), and you would lose the skill set from the original Hayabusa team by that time in any event. |
|
|
Jan 29 2009, 07:46 PM
Post
#4
|
|
Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 60 Joined: 3-January 09 Member No.: 4520 |
So he's saying, basically - now or never on Hayabusa 2 (unless they happen to find a new target - say, with Pan-STARRS, or another survey.) And the budget stuff is STILL up in the air at the time of writing, despite the fact they said it'd be decided summer 2008.
So not good signs, overall, for Hayabusa 2. Anyhow - excellent. Thank you very much for the help. |
|
|
Jul 28 2009, 07:32 AM
Post
#5
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 118 Joined: 18-November 07 Member No.: 3964 |
Hayabusa 2 is currently planned to be launched with H-IIA in 2014 to asteroid 1999JU3.
http://translate.google.com/translate?prev...history_state0= The original link: http://smatsu.air-nifty.com/lbyd/2009/07/jaxa2-7537.html |
|
|
Jul 28 2009, 05:21 PM
Post
#6
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1582 Joined: 14-October 05 From: Vermont Member No.: 530 |
Fantastic. I love it when successful hardware gets launched again.
|
|
|
Aug 29 2009, 07:23 AM
Post
#7
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1729 Joined: 3-August 06 From: 43° 35' 53" N 1° 26' 35" E Member No.: 1004 |
In the latest issue of Astronomy & Astrophysics: Spitzer observations of spacecraft target 162173 (1999 JU3)
|
|
|
Oct 2 2009, 05:19 AM
Post
#8
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1729 Joined: 3-August 06 From: 43° 35' 53" N 1° 26' 35" E Member No.: 1004 |
|
|
|
Jul 4 2010, 06:41 PM
Post
#9
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1729 Joined: 3-August 06 From: 43° 35' 53" N 1° 26' 35" E Member No.: 1004 |
The latest issue of Nature mentions Hayabusa 2 while discussing the return of Hayabusa http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100629/full/466016a.html
apparently, the project has been promised an increase of funds and could fly in 2014, returning samples in 2020. |
|
|
Jul 14 2010, 07:47 PM
Post
#10
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 293 Joined: 29-August 06 From: Columbia, MD Member No.: 1083 |
I saw a presentation today on Hayabusa 2 that was presented to NASA by JAXA. As already stated, they're looking at a C-type asteroid with a 2014-15 launch and an arrival in 2017-18. They are hoping to carry Minerva again.
They are also looking at Hayabusa Mark 2, but there were no details in the presentation about what a Mk 2 spacecraft would do in capability/science above the Mk 1. A Mk 2 is looking at a 2020-21 launch (if memory serves). |
|
|
Jul 15 2010, 07:48 AM
Post
#11
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
An article found in today's (15 July) Asahi Shimbun newspaper here says what follows.
JAXA put forward (yesterday) to the Space Activities Committe (or Commission) (SAC, anyway) their Hayabusa 2 proposal for feasibility study. They (SAC) will complete their technical feasibility study during August this year. Their conclusion will then be forwarded to the Ministry of Education, Science, Culture and Sports and the government's Space Development Strategy HQ. Whether next year's budget allocation will reflect this is everybody's concern at the moment. Unlike Hayabusa, Hayabusa 2 will be going to organic rich asteroid. After initial sampling on arrival Hayabusa 2 will release an object to the surface and create an artificial crator of 5,6 m in diameter. Hayabusa 2 will then land in the crator for further sampling and return to the Earth. Pandaneko |
|
|
Jul 15 2010, 07:56 AM
Post
#12
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
Oh, dear! I forgot to mention that Hayabusa 2 will go during the summer of 2014. This is in time for the approapriate orbital insertion to meeting up with the asteroid.
Pandaneko |
|
|
Jul 15 2010, 01:43 PM
Post
#13
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
I now know Hayabusa 2's target. It is 1999JU3.
Pandaneko |
|
|
Aug 6 2010, 08:49 PM
Post
#14
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1429 Joined: 26-July 08 Member No.: 4270 |
-------------------- -- Hungry4info (Sirius_Alpha)
|
|
|
Aug 11 2010, 12:27 PM
Post
#15
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
There was an article in today's (11 August) Yomiuri newspaper about Hayabusa 2. She will create a crator with an explosive charge and land in it.
She will be using a few different types of sample recovery system. One of them is a sticky material. The paper did not mentioin what other methods are. Pandaneko |
|
|
Aug 12 2010, 11:37 AM
Post
#16
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
My apologies, an explosive charge will be used to send out a metal chunck to the asteroid to create a crator. That makes me wonder about the potential damage to the mothership...
Pandaneko |
|
|
Aug 12 2010, 11:50 AM
Post
#17
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
Further apologies
Please do not blame me. As I look around for more info I get slightly different versions. The latest finding is that the projectile itself will have an explosive charge in it and it will create a crator, 4m in diam, and 80cm in depth. Pandaneko |
|
|
Aug 12 2010, 03:58 PM
Post
#18
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 593 Joined: 20-April 05 Member No.: 279 |
A crater that size would mean blasting out over 10 tonnes of regolith (5.3 cubic metres @ 2 tonnes/m3) - and the idea is Hayabusa-2 would be near this to collect material?
Andy |
|
|
Aug 12 2010, 06:08 PM
Post
#19
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 293 Joined: 29-August 06 From: Columbia, MD Member No.: 1083 |
My understanding is the spacecraft will be in a stand-off position during this phase and then approach later to sample/collect the (hopefully) pristine material inside the crater. I guess this supposed "sticky" collection device would operate in some sort of fly-through of the ejecta?
|
|
|
Aug 13 2010, 12:09 PM
Post
#20
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
There was a repeat TV programme on Hayabusa and Hayabusa 2 on NHK today (13 August). I had not watched it before. What caught my attention most was the shape of the impacter as they called it and the sequence of crater making.
The impacter had a shape of a typical drum, but about one third of the way down from the top it had a disk sticking out all around the drum. The disk width was about one third of the drum diameter, I think. Detonation sequence is something I do not trust my memory about. It was so brief, literally a few seconds. Now, there was a clear explosion on the asteroid surface, but, at that same moment the drum was still in the air, that is what I remember. I may be wrong, of course... Pandaneko |
|
|
Aug 14 2010, 08:52 AM
Post
#21
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
What follows is from WIKI on Hayabusa 2. I had a look at WIKI in English and there was little. Proposed improvements are as follows.
1. Instead of a parabolic antenna an array antenna as used with Akatsuki will be used. 2. Pipe lining for chemical thrusters and reaction wheels will be improved. 3. Ion engine power will be increased from 10 micro N to 10 milli N. 4. Sampling sequence will be improved. For instance, a fish eye lens will monitor sampling process and optical monitoring of grains being retrieved. 5. Projectile's shape (sampler horn) will be changed from ball bearing shape to conical bullet shape at 90 degrees. 6. Impacter is 20 cm in diameter and weighs 10 kg. After seperation from Hayabusa 2 it will be deformed in shape by the explosive pressure to smush into the asteroid. What surprised me was that Hayabusa 2 is very similar to Hayabusa, even with a sampler horn! I would have thought that they have given it up... Pandaneko |
|
|
Aug 14 2010, 05:16 PM
Post
#22
|
|
Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8783 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Thanks, Pandaneko!
10^3 uprating--that's a dramatic improvement in engine thrust. I wonder if that indicates advancement in the technology, or just more confidence in pushing the existing design harder based on all the experience gained with Hayabusa 1? Retaining the sampler horn schema is surprising as well. Don't see why they'd do that unless they feel very certain that they understand what went wrong on H1...has anything been published to indicate that? (I would be surprised if much of the post-flight engineering analysis has been translated into English, if it's even been publicly released in Japanese in the first place.) -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
|
|
|
Aug 15 2010, 12:10 PM
Post
#23
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
I should imagine that JAXA itself cannot carry anything on Hayabusa 2 because of yet undecided budgetary confirmation. However, what follows appears to be the most official hideout for them.
http://b612.jspec.jaxa.jp/mission/e/index_e.html Also, I now know that there will be two MINERVAs and 4 reaction wheels and that the stay period around the asteroid will be 1.5 years. Pandaneko |
|
|
Aug 16 2010, 01:02 AM
Post
#24
|
|
Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 58 Joined: 17-September 06 Member No.: 1150 |
http://www.planetaryprobe.eu/IPPW7/proceed...sion7B/p456.pdf
Hayabusa 2 might carry a DLR lander called MASCOT. |
|
|
Dec 23 2010, 09:22 AM
Post
#25
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
This news just in!
Hayabusa 2's budget request was fully approved by the government here!!! It will go in 2014 as planned!!! Pandaneko |
|
|
Dec 23 2010, 09:40 AM
Post
#26
|
|
Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8783 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
GREAT news!!!!
P., I know that Emily will ask for a reference in the event that she decides to write about this (and it wouldn't surprise me if she did; Hayabusa 1 enjoyed considerable mass media attention by the normal standards of UMSF); do you have one handy in either Japanese or English? -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
|
|
|
Dec 23 2010, 10:15 AM
Post
#27
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
Yes, though only in Japanese, from the web digest version of the Yomiuri newspaper. URL here.
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/science/news/2010...-OYT1T01175.htm There may be an article in English with the Daily Yomiuri, but this news will be reported widely by other media too from today on, I think. Pandaneko |
|
|
Dec 23 2010, 08:08 PM
Post
#28
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2173 Joined: 28-December 04 From: Florida, USA Member No.: 132 |
Here's the English version:
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T101223003538.htm "The government will give the science ministry the full amount--3 billion yen--it requested for development of the Hayabusa 2 space probe in the fiscal 2011 budget, sources said...." |
|
|
Dec 24 2010, 09:15 AM
Post
#29
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
I have got this feeling that we may shift this topic into Hayabusa 2 which already exsists. The reason is that Hayabusa 1's news will continue to come in, I think, in the next year and it might become confusing to talk about the two within the same stream...
Perhaps, I should have done just that myself in the first place, if I come to think about it... Pandaneko |
|
|
Jan 25 2011, 10:10 AM
Post
#30
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
Another crazy thought... I was not sure where I should put this in and in the end chose this place. I am still talking about the need for engineering cameras.
Although, not directory relevant to interplanetatry missions, I tell you one episode about Hayabusa's capsule helicopter recovery. Heat shield and its inrared signnature and all that. They did a rehearsal before hand, and what they used was a traditional Japanese feet warmer used in your bed filled with warm water. These things used to be made of corrugated metals, but increasingly these are now made of plastics, to hold warm water inside them. I do not use one, as I use my electric bluncket, but there are still people, eldery people, who prefer these traditional warmers. Having said that, let me come to the main issue, engineering cameras. With Hayabusa Minerva was lost (and only one image returned to earth, I think), and it must have been a very expensive system. However, prior to that deployment they sent a target marker down to the surface of the asteroid. That thing was remarkably primitive, with multi-rfelection surfaces, but what it boiled down to was another traditional thing, called ohajiki, for mainly small girls to play with. Ohajiki is made of small beans and enclosed in a cloth (here on earth, that is) container to make it roughly round, about 5 cm in diam. With Hayabusa, two of them was used, as I remember, and the idea was that on landing they do not rebounce. Now, if we have an engineering camara, with a fish eye lens attached to it, can we not forget about MINERVA kind of sophisticated and expensive monitoring devices? Whether angle setting is right or not should not matter as long as a fish eye lens is attached with the marker. It does not be firmly fixed, for cost saving, I think. If we can arrange for that kind of markers, then we should be able to see what is coming down from above, and even what went wrong on landing, etc, etc. Of course, we should have another camera on board the probe itself. Pandaneko |
|
|
Jan 25 2011, 11:15 AM
Post
#31
|
|||
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2173 Joined: 28-December 04 From: Florida, USA Member No.: 132 |
... if we have an engineering camara, with a fish eye lens attached to it, can we not forget about MINERVA kind of sophisticated and expensive monitoring devices? Of course, Minerva was not devised to monitor Hayabusa. Its purpose was to explore the surface of Itokawa. So we wouldn't want to do away with it. If I understand you, you are suggesting that the 'dumb' targets that Hayabusa dropped onto Itokawa could have had simple cameras to monitor Hayabusa's landing? Perhaps, but in addition to the camera, there would need to be a battery and transmitter along with the required electronics. More design, more testing, more weight.... unfortunately. From http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10055257/ns/te..._science-space/ "In this photo, taken by the Hayabusa mothership, the object within the yellow circle is thought to be the MINERVA mini-robot, floating in space. Hayabusa's shadow can be seen on the surface of asteroid Itokawa, toward the top of the frame." "This picture, snapped by the MINERVA mini-robot just after its deployment, shows a solar panel on the Hayabusa mothership." |
||
|
|||
Jan 26 2011, 05:32 PM
Post
#32
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 153 Joined: 14-August 06 Member No.: 1041 |
As I recall, the problem with the Haybusa sampling horn is that the probe landed much sooner than anticipated. I would guess - this is only a guess- that the software engineers did not expect the timing of the landing to be off this much and did not have the necessary flags set for the sampling sequence to execute. It is unclear (to me) whether or not the probe left because of a timer, a maximum temperature was exceeded, or the probe was ordered to depart from earth.
In any case, since they have not changed the design of the sampling horn; it seems a likely conclusion that the failure to collect a pair of good samples was the result of a sequencing error rather than a failure of the sampling horn. |
|
|
Jan 27 2011, 02:56 PM
Post
#33
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
Thank you for clarification of MINERVA's role.
I now have this feeling that all future asteroid landers should have something like MINERVA. I am very ignorant about hardware costs, but they do not need propulsion systems, just being pushed out (or down), so can they not afford a few MINERVA like things, not just for surface observations, but to view what a lander looks like when it comes down and do whatever it is supposed to do on touch down? I do want to see a lander coming down, why not? That should not be very expensive, should it? Pandaneko |
|
|
Jan 27 2011, 06:47 PM
Post
#34
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 555 Joined: 27-September 10 Member No.: 5458 |
Somewhere I read that the Hyabusa development costs were around US$150m and the NSSDC claims the spacecraft alone was around $100m of that. I would imagine Minerva was relatively cheap in comparison. However, the US had planned a lander to be on Hyabusa as well but pulled out due to costs. It always seems to come down to politics in the end. Also, all missions to comets and asteroids, with exception to Hyabusa, have been flybys so far, making it difficult for a lander to have much time to explore before it would lose radio contact.
-------------------- |
|
|
Jan 27 2011, 07:04 PM
Post
#35
|
|
Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14432 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
|
|
|
Jan 27 2011, 08:33 PM
Post
#36
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 555 Joined: 27-September 10 Member No.: 5458 |
Doh, forgot that one. Thanks for reminding me.
-------------------- |
|
|
Jan 30 2012, 08:41 AM
Post
#37
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
No, I cannot provide link information as all this was analogue on local newspapers here during the past 10 days to two weeks and I do not even remember which ones exactly Anyway, :
1. Hayabusa 2 is likely to go as planned in 2014, despite the recent budgetary cut due to the shortage of money in the wake of the earthquake. Actually, the amount of budget cut is very large in % terms, but this article contained in it a JAXA comment that they would somehow manage with their own internal resources being added to the current layout. 2. A German team is going to put a mini-lander with Hayabusa 2. I remember vaguely that there was a posting about this (with the same name given to it) long time ago. The problem as I remember was that the lander was not going to be given a spin at all. P |
|
|
Feb 10 2012, 12:13 PM
Post
#38
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
What follows is found on today's (10 Feb. 2012) Asahi newspaper digital.
JAXA will complete the design of Hayabusa 2 components by mid March this year (2012) and start manufacturing them thereafter. At about the same time they will start electrical connection tests of comms. and control systems by having them together and if possible complete the construction of the flight model by the autumn of 2013 at the earliest. Hayabusa 2's development budget has been almost halved to about 30x 10 to the power of 8 yen within the 2012 budgetary plan and its launch is said to be tricky, but JAXA will not change its launch schedule and will aim for a launch in 2014. According to the plan Hayabusa 2 will be launched on board H2A in 2014 and will arrive at the carbon rich 1999 JU3 in 2018 and will return to the Earth in 2020. (Why as much as 4 years, why not 6 months like Akatsuki!, P) Hayabusa 2's probe cost is 162x 10 to the power of 8 yen and if we include the launch cost the total cost is about 300 x 10 to the power of 8 yen. Launch windows will be open for two weeks in the summer or winter of 2014. 2015 will be left as a backup launch year. http://www.asahi.com/digital/nikkanko/NKK201202090016.html P |
|
|
Feb 10 2012, 03:38 PM
Post
#39
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1729 Joined: 3-August 06 From: 43° 35' 53" N 1° 26' 35" E Member No.: 1004 |
thanks for the update pandaneko!
cutting the budget while keeping the schedule will probably mean saving on tests and cutting corners... I have a bad feeling about this... |
|
|
Feb 10 2012, 07:34 PM
Post
#40
|
|
Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 58 Joined: 17-September 06 Member No.: 1150 |
Somewhere else they said, the 2014 launch depends whether or not they can get the lost parts of the FY 2012 budget additionally in FY 2013.
Something else. 600 kilo is too soft for the H-IIA? For Planet-C this problem made the development of IKAROS possible. Hope they could come with something cool this time, too. |
|
|
Apr 25 2012, 08:48 AM
Post
#41
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
Somewhere else they said, the 2014 launch depends whether or not they can get the lost parts of the FY 2012 budget additionally in FY 2013. Something else. 600 kilo is too soft for the H-IIA? For Planet-C this problem made the development of IKAROS possible. Hope they could come with something cool this time, too. What follows is my translation of an article in one of the local newspapers here. I have no link details here, but there are other similar articles reported by other local newspapers. So, I suspect that it does not matter a lot even if I fail to give such details. Anyway, translation goes like this: ★10 million JPY private contribution in 10 dayys to JAXA. Ardent hope for Hayabusa 2. JAXA started inviting private contributions from general public as from 2 April 2012. Hayabusa's story gave a profound impression on people here, but there is not enough money yet for Hayabusa 2. That is why private contributions are looked at favourably. Contribution per person is staying at around JPY 10,000. JAXA started inviting contributions as from 2 April through internet. JAXA also started introducing F-REG contribution payment service offered by Future Commerce, and also accepting credt cards and internet banking (PAY-EASY) services such as UC card, MASTER, VISA, and other credit cards with international credibility. If you use any one of these services you do not need to your bank. Minimum contribution is JPY 1,000, and you can choose what you are contribution for, from: 1. Hayabusa 2 2. Manned spaceship/manned launcher 3. More use of Kibo modele on ISS 4. Space science use JAXA had amassed a total of JPY 11316000 by 12 April ( almost double that by 24 April, P) and were saying thatn you very much. Pandaneko |
|
|
May 25 2012, 07:28 AM
Post
#42
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
Nihon Keizai Shimbun here, a financial newspaper, reported (time stamp is 25 May 2012) that JAXA started producing Hayabusa 2 and main parts will be assembled by the end of this fiscal year for testing.
Pandaneko |
|
|
Jun 9 2012, 05:44 AM
Post
#43
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
Nihon Keizai Shimbun here, a financial newspaper, reported (time stamp is 25 May 2012) that JAXA started producing Hayabusa 2 and main parts will be assembled by the end of this fiscal year for testing. Pandaneko In addition to above posting there was a similar article in today (9 June)'s Asahi Shimbun newspaper. It more or less says the same thing such as Hayabusa 2's design work was completed by the end of April this year and manufacturing started immediately. One additional information it gave is that its ion engines are so designed as to reduce output power automatically by detecting early symptons of mulfunction. Pandaneko |
|
|
Jun 25 2012, 07:09 AM
Post
#44
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
There is an interesting feature on JAXA Japanese web site. What follows is its translation.
<New challenegs> We are currently considering a new device for Hayabusa 2 which was not carried by Hayabusa. It is a collision device. It will be seperated from Hayabusa 2 above 1993 JU3 and when the mothersdhip hides behind the asreroid it will explode in mid air. Then, approx. 2kg collision mass will collide with the asteroid surface and create a crater of approx. a few meters insize. After that, collection and sampling of the newly disclosed surface will be attempted. (end of translation) I would have thought that crater making can be best and least problematically achieved by an explosive device, somehow gently placed on the asteroid surface. That would have been space mining, but this is just a collision process! P |
|
|
Jun 28 2012, 04:13 PM
Post
#45
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 149 Joined: 18-June 08 Member No.: 4216 |
UNNECESSARY QUOTING REMOVED - ADMIN
Paraphrasing David Niven in "The Guns of Navarone": 'there is always a way to set off explosives. The trick is not to be around when they do.' |
|
|
Jun 28 2012, 11:42 PM
Post
#46
|
|
Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 20-January 12 From: Florida Member No.: 6317 |
Here is a short article from the English edition of Asahi Shimbun, dated June 9:
Engineers seek smoother space journey for Hayabusa 2 NEC is the prime contractor again. It seems to me the trouble with "hiding behind" the asteroid when the explosion goes off is that a lot of debris will be floating about for a while. |
|
|
Jun 29 2012, 12:51 AM
Post
#47
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2085 Joined: 13-February 10 From: Ontario Member No.: 5221 |
Why would it? The asteroid's gravity is too negligible to hold onto anything and without air resistance, all the particles would fly away at whatever speed the explosion flung them.
|
|
|
Jul 2 2012, 09:13 AM
Post
#48
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
Why would it? The asteroid's gravity is too negligible to hold onto anything and without air resistance, all the particles would fly away at whatever speed the explosion flung them. I am not exactly sure what they have in mind. Explosion is isotopic, and to get a maximum directionality push you need an infinite mass sitting behind the explosion, resembling rather like a Chinese frying pan. If you want more then you are talking about a cannon, I think. If you reverse the whole setup you will then get a missile. In either case they do talk about explosions. So, what are they talking about? P |
|
|
Jul 2 2012, 08:54 PM
Post
#49
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2085 Joined: 13-February 10 From: Ontario Member No.: 5221 |
Seems to me like the goal is both replicating Deep Impact but on an inert body instead of out-gassing comet. This includes staying in the vicinity rather than just a flyby, so as to measure the velocity change easier.
|
|
|
Jul 5 2012, 08:03 AM
Post
#50
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
Seems to me like the goal is both replicating Deep Impact but on an inert body instead of out-gassing comet. This includes staying in the vicinity rather than just a flyby, so as to measure the velocity change easier. I realise that I have been putting all this very badly indeed. First of all, there is no mistake in my translation about "explosion". They did say "explosion" in mid space. My question/comment is this. Mid space explosion cannot possibly direct a collidinng mass into the right direction. Neither will it be able to give it a sufficient kinetic energy to dig a hole in the asteroid. So, what kind of explosion are they talking about? Perhaps, the collidinng mass has an explosive charge to detonate even if incorrectly pointed (as long as it does get tothe asteroid surface?). P |
|
|
Sep 18 2012, 09:58 AM
Post
#51
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
Some diagrams and what-not. There was a brief TV news coverage on Hayabusa 2 on NHK here yesterday. It said that in order to accelerate the development of Hayabusa 2 a new project manager was appointed. He is Prof Hitoshi Kuninaka of JAXA (that is ISAS). He was apparrently responsible for the development of ion engines used on Hayabusa 1. Prof Makoto Yoshikawa of NAO (National Astronomical Observatory) is no longer the PM for Hayabusa 2 ? In any event the news also said that fabrication of Hayabusa 2 components is progressing rapidly in time for sending it out in December 2014. The TV also showed the impact simulation, very briefly, 2 ,3 seconds. There was a clear and large fireball in mid air (it did look like an explostion, not a firing of a projectile) , and also an explosive impact on the asteroid surface. I am not sure if there was a time lapse between them as the video was so brief. I am more and more confused by this... P |
|
|
Sep 18 2012, 12:10 PM
Post
#52
|
|
Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 20-January 12 From: Florida Member No.: 6317 |
Is Prof. Kawaguchi involved in Hayabusa-2 at all?
|
|
|
Sep 19 2012, 11:30 AM
Post
#53
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
Is Prof. Kawaguchi involved in Hayabusa-2 at all? Good question and I am even more confused by all this. My Google alert today (local Kyodo Tsushin, a news provider like AFP), I think, gave me an e-mail (2012/09/15 16:56) and it says Hayabusa 2 is progressing steadily under the direction of Prof Makoto Yoshikawa. My earlier posting was based on the NHK news which I saw on 17 September. Since I am not exactly sure about the difference between PI and PM both of them may still be involed, but probably not Prof Kawaguchi. This Google alert of 15 September also gave me a clue to what I had been wondering about. It says that a mass (not an explosive mass) will collide with the asteroid by the force of an explosion. This may be in line with the simulation video I saw. There was a fireball in mid-air and it was spherical in shape. The explosion on the ground was hemispherical. This, to me, seems like a very inefficient of digging a hole in the crater. Perhaps, there is a very good reason? P |
|
|
Dec 27 2012, 09:03 AM
Post
#54
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1729 Joined: 3-August 06 From: 43° 35' 53" N 1° 26' 35" E Member No.: 1004 |
Hayabusa 2's structure complete http://www.jaxa.jp/projects/sat/hayabusa2/...What%27s+New%29
|
|
|
Dec 28 2012, 03:39 AM
Post
#55
|
|
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 5172 Joined: 4-August 05 From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth Member No.: 454 |
That's great news. I wish JAXA posted higher-res versions of their photos with their articles....
-------------------- My website - My Patreon - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
|
|
|
Dec 29 2012, 08:57 AM
Post
#56
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1729 Joined: 3-August 06 From: 43° 35' 53" N 1° 26' 35" E Member No.: 1004 |
high resolution pics are on JAXA digital archive
http://jda.jaxa.jp/category_p.php?lang=e&a...mp;page_pics=50 |
|
|
Dec 31 2012, 06:51 AM
Post
#57
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
high resolution pics are on JAXA digital archive http://jda.jaxa.jp/category_p.php?lang=e&a...mp;page_pics=50 Thanks, Paolo I also found an intersting article, which I have translated as follows. Its origin is given at the top of my translation. In it, P stands for pictures and G stands for graphics. Some of these are actually texts and they are too small to be properly recognied, so I have not translated these. Here it goes, from P http://news.mynavi.jp/articles/2012/12/28/...usa2/index.html JAXA demonstrates Hayabusa-2 flight model to the press On 26 December JAXA displayed the flight model currently under construction at its Sagamihara campus (ISAS campus). It is a succesor to Hayabusa which landed on an asteroid caIled Itokawa and returned to Earth in June 2010. It was shown to the press at the time when only its main body frame and solar pannells are complete. P-1: Hayabusa 2 shown here. It looks very different from its final form of completion. P-2: This a 1/20 scale model. A cylindrical device shown in the middle of its body is the impacter. Another point of difference is its increased length (or height) Hayabusa 2 measures 1.0mx1.6mx1.25m and weighs 600kg including fuel. As its predecessor it is intended to carry out a sample return mission. Launch timing of December 2014 is assumed. If successful it will return at the end of 2020. The model shown this time is the completed body frame with its solar pannels plus dummy weight components. Dummy weights are attached to ensure same weight and same centre of gravity during the vibration tests currently being conducted. P-3: Shown from behind the probe. Body and solar pannels are flight ready. Main body is composed of 8 alminium honeycombe pannels (6 outer and 2 inner pannels). P-4: Holes are meant to hold iron engines. Shown in front is the dummy iron engine weight and fuel tank dummy weight is seen at the end of the hole. P-5: A pipe like object is seen sticking out. This is a dummy middle gain antenna. P-6: Seen from the left. 3 solar pannels per one wing are folded and obstructing the view of the side of the main frame. P-7: The device with an ambrella like object is the sampler horn. This sampler horn also is a flight model. A cylinder shown in front is the sase for Minerba 2 (mini-rover) P-8: Sampler horn seen from the other side. Since three minerba 2 rovers will be on board there is also another cyliner on this side. P-9: We could not get the front view of of the main body. Dummy weight of the return capsule is only just shown here. P-10: The model is placed on the vertical vibration tester. Red cable leading from the probe is for acceleration sensors. In front is the horizontal vibration test bed. Main points of difference from Hayabusa are as follows. G-1: On board device comparison (1) G-2: On board device comparison (2)) Conspicuous in its external appearance is the two high gain flat antennas in place of the usual parabolic antenna. Of these one is intended as with Hayabusa for X-band (7-8 GHz) range, but the other one is for Ka band (32 GHz) range to ensure higher comms. speed and to secure higher degree of redundancy. Vital to the return journey is the fuel efficient iron engines. Same number of four engines will be on board. However, propulsive power of each unit has been increased from 8mN to 10mN. New device that attracted our attention is the impacter. This device will accelerate a 2 kg copper collider (liner) to a few km velocity by explosion of an explosive and collide with the asteroid surface, creating an artificial crater of a few meters in diamter. This will make it possible to sample prestine inner materials not affected by solar corrosion. There is no significant change made to the sampler horn. One small change is the nails added to the inner surface of the horn tip in order to increase the amount of samples. The number of projecter has been increased from 3 to 4. Sample containing room is now divided into 3 sections (previously 2 sections). With Hayabusa there was only one mini rover called Minerba which faild to land on Itokawa. With Hayabusa 2 there will be three of these of similar size and these will be collectively called Minerba 2. In addition another small lander called MASCOT developped in Europe will be on board. Hayabusa was intended for sampling from an S type asteroid. Hayabusa 2 will ber flying to a C type asteroid 1999JU3 where existence of organic materials and water is expected. As a result observation devices will include a near infrared spectrometer and mid infrared camera. Of these Hayabusa did have a near infrared spectrometer, but observation range has been changed so that water absorption band can be seen. Main body frame looks similer in size, but it is longer by 15cm in the height direction. Its weight is also heavier bby 100kg in order to cope with the increased number of devices. 2 years to launch, no time to loose Expected launch timing is December 2014, but if JAXA fails to make it next launch timing will be 10 years later, making continuiation the whole project impossdible. Sample return from type C asteroids will be scientifically significant. However, many of them exist in the main belt between Mars and Jupiter and they are too far from here and Hayabusa class probes will not be able to cope with the mission. 1999JU3 just happens to be in near earth orbit, making it about the only type C asteroid. G-3: With Hayabusa 2 there are 3 points of significance G-4: Mission scenario is different G-5: Selection of target asteroid. 1999JU3 has been selected. G-6: With 1999JU3 we still do not know its exact shape. Project manager, Prof Hitoshi Kuninaka of JAXA (ISAS) stresses emphatically that they will to stick with the launch in December 2014. Theoretically speaking, there are windows in June and December of 2015. However, arrival timing of June 2018 cannot be moved and the delayed launch will mean that much harsher operation of iron engines. P-11: Hayabusa 2 project manager, Prof Hitoshi Kuninaka. He was in cgarge of iron engines with Hayabusa. December 2014 launch means 80% operation rate. However, the launch in Decmber 2015 will require 96% operation rate, meaning rest time of only 7 hours per week. Communication with the earth station alone will require 5 to 6 hours and that means almost limiting conditions in case of troubles. Right now, Hayabusa 2 is located at the Sgamihara campus of JAXA (ISAS), but very soon after the year end 2012 it will be transported to Tsukuba Space Center to undergo accoustic tests. It will then be returnd to Sagamihara in mid January 2013 to undergo electricl tests and other component tests. Then, from October 2013 its final configuration will start, to be flight ready by summer 2014. |
|
|
Jan 1 2013, 10:30 AM
Post
#58
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 495 Joined: 12-February 12 Member No.: 6336 |
|
|
|
Jan 2 2013, 12:49 PM
Post
#59
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
I am not exactly sure what they have in mind. Explosion is isotopic, and to get a maximum directionality push you need an infinite mass sitting behind the explosion, resembling rather like a Chinese frying pan. If you want more then you are talking about a cannon, I think. If you reverse the whole setup you will then get a missile. In either case they do talk about explosions. So, what are they talking about? P Today, I actually managed to find an answer to this question of mine. It is revealed in a document presented at an annual ISAS conference of almost exactly one year ago. Since it is a short 10 page document I will fully translate it and post it tommorrow, I think. P |
|
|
Jan 3 2013, 09:28 AM
Post
#60
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
Today, I actually managed to find an answer to this question of mine. It is revealed in a document presented at an annual ISAS conference of almost exactly one year ago. Since it is a short 10 page document I will fully translate it and post it tommorrow, I think.
P [/quote]ause of that As it turned out this is a 20 page document, and not because of that I have not been able to translate the whole pages. So, I am uploading that has been translated so far, as follows. P My notation is as follows. Squares on the original PPT files are designated as S (such as S1, S2 etc) and the diamonds are designated as d (such as d1 and d2 etc). Title page Hayabusa 2 collision device (S1-07) 5 January 2011 Hayabusa 2 project - collidding device subsystem T Saeki (JAXA) P-1 (page one) Page title: Hayabusa 2 project S1: With Hayabusa 2 we intend to create an artificial crater by making a colliding body collide with an asteroid. S2: We will observe thus created crater and subsequently try to sample soils in the crater. On this page there are 3 boxes as follows. They correspond to Launch, Re-entry, and Sample analysis. Also, there are three pictures. Picture -1 at the top is qualified as : Remote sensing observation (optical cameras, infra-red spectrometer, LIDAR (distance measurement)) etc => investigation of the asteroid characteristics Asteroid observation from vicinity, small rovers, sampling of surface materials Picture -2 in the middle is qualified as: Carrying out the collision operation Picture -3 down at the bottom is as follows: Observation of crater formation by cameras and sampling of prestine materials (extra bonus if successful) P-2 Page title: Hayabusa 2 colliding device S1: SCI(Small Carry-on Impactor) S2: Create an artificial crater by a collision process d1: Acceleration by rocket motors etc will mean longer acceleration distances and neccesitate guidance, leading to system becoming too complicated. S3: Use an explosion formed intrusion mass which can be created in a very short time so that the colliding device itself willl not neeed to control its own attitude and carry out guidance. d2: Acceleration of a metal object by an explosive charge d3: Ultra-short time acceleration: (up to 2km/s in 1ms or less) d4: Less contamination of the soil because explosion itself will not crate the crater d5: Casing material will fly away by the force of explosion P-3 Page title: Colliding device configuration (graphics and from left to right, section or areawise) Re-entry vehicle (pale blue area on the left) and it includes cameras Remaining area(s) to the right of the re-entry vehicle depicts the collision device which includes: A: Seperation mechanism (which, I think, is slightly tinted) and its collision device interface section contains wired interface, pyros for seperation and seperation connecter spring B: Collision device body and this consists of : B-1: Collision controller which includes: temp. monitors, heaters, power source circuits, sequensers, seperation detecting sensors, primary batteries, ignition/safety mechaism, heat controlling materials B-2: Collision explosive section which contains: relay explosive (ignition explosive?), main explosive charge and a metal liner P-4 Page title: Mass etc S1: Mass: Less than 20kg (including seperation mechanism) S2: Physical size: 300mm diamter x 300mm height S3: Location: Z face of the probe (inside the rocket coupling ring) P-5 Page title: Seperation mechanism S1: Spin seperation (same as Hayabusa) d1: Collision device itself is not equipped with an attitude control system. Mothership will direct the device. d2: Spin will be given becuse of the long time before collision (40 minitues) after seperation to maintain its attitude. P-6 Page title: Outline of collision operation S1: Colliding device will scatter small fragments in all directions (with velocities up to a few km/s). In addition, landing on the asteroid surface will mean soil scattering. For this reason, the probe will hide behind the asteroid immediately after the seperation. (after this, there are 3 boxes as follows) Box 1: Debris avoidance operation: Hide behind the asteroid. Box 2: Avoiding high speed ijecta by hiding behind the asteroid: Hide behind the asteroid. Box 3: Avoiding low speed ijecta: Keep enough distance from the asteroid if they are doing regular orbital flying. At ultra high altitudes they will have very small velocities and impact effects will be minimal and the probability of collision itself will be very small. |
|
|
Jan 3 2013, 04:47 PM
Post
#61
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1729 Joined: 3-August 06 From: 43° 35' 53" N 1° 26' 35" E Member No.: 1004 |
thank you for your translation, pandaneko, as usual
can you share the link to the document you are translating? |
|
|
Jan 3 2013, 09:37 PM
Post
#62
|
|||
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2173 Joined: 28-December 04 From: Florida, USA Member No.: 132 |
From "Small carry-on impactor of Hayabusa2 mission"
A schematic of the shaped charge penetrator, a model, and a test impact. More pictures at the link. EDIT: The model pictured above is captioned: "Small model of the explosive part. Weight of the explosive is about 150 g." The schematic below is captioned: "Shape of explosive part. It has a liner face in the shape of a shallow dish. The weight of the explosive is about 4.5 kg." So it seems the actual impactor will have 30 times the explosive as the model. |
||
|
|||
Jan 4 2013, 02:14 AM
Post
#63
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
Quote removed - Mod
Thank you very much for this. I am particularly grateful because I now seem unable to access the original source file. It was: http://ae86.eng.isas.jaxa.jp/sss12/paper/s...20202232209.pdf and when I try it I am refused access and one of the advices given is the cache file below, but it does not carry pictures and schematics. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/sear...20202232346.pdf However, I pasted texts into my memo pad. I think some of these are still useful without picture reference and I will try to translate them this evening. In any event "centsworth_II" information is sufficient for us to understand impact operation, I think. P |
|
|
Jan 4 2013, 07:48 AM
Post
#64
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
Quote removed - Mod
This, actually is far better than the pictures and schematics carried in the document I was using. For instance, All I could find as the liner shape was a simple vertical line because only a cross section schematic was there in the document I was translating. Here, you can see a lot more. Anyway, I have been yapping about this mid spce explosion for a long time, thinking that such an explosion cannot possibly send the colliding mass in the right and accurate direction. I am now a lot happier. In case anybody is interested I am pasting the remaining pages of translation as follows. P P-7 Page title: Collision operation Outline: 1.Mothership descends to the asteroid with the collision device pointing to the asteroid 2.Seperation at an altitude of approx. 500m 3.Horizontal evacuation maneuver 4.DCAM seperation 5.Vertical evacuation maneuver 6.Detonation. Timing is by a pre-set timer. Timer is activated on detecting seperation. P-8 Page title: Evacuation time Time between seperation and detonation: If too short then delta V required for evacuation will get larger. If too long the error in colliding position will get larger, making the collision point area lager and/or fall to the asteroid before detonation (I remember there was a couple of pictures here, P) P-9 Page title: Evacuation maneuver and collision accuracy Time from seperation to detonation: 2400 seconds, collision point accuracy (radius) of approx. 200m, evacuation delta V is approx. 10m/s P-10 Page title: Explosive section: Shape: conical Liner: Copper without oxygeon Explosive charge: HMX type PBX Mass: Approx. 9kg (explosive charge alone is 4.5kg) P-11 Page title: Liner flight Liner shape: Shell type. Deformation time: < 0.5ms Relative collision velocity: > 2000m/s. Mass: > 2kg. P-12 Liner into sand experiment P-13 1/2 scale model tests P-14 1/2 scale model flight tests (continued) P-15 1/2 scale model flight tests (continued) P-16 Page title: Long flight tests Test flight distance of approx. 100m P-17 Page title: Long flight tests (continuation) Collision body : 1/1 scale model was used and it was confirmed that its intended flight shape was successfully formed by explosion P-18 Page title: Long flight tests (continuation) Deviation from designed flight path of less than 1 degree confirmed, velocity also confirmed P-19 Page title: Long flight tests (continuation) Observation of ejecta was carried out P-20 Page title: Summary Designed results confirmed and further improvements will be made. |
|
|
Jan 28 2013, 08:21 AM
Post
#65
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
Below is just for your information.
March edition of Scientific American (Japanese version) apparently gives the names of those involved in Hayabusa 2 as follows. Project manager is Prof Hitoshi Kuninaka of JAXA (ISAS). Project scientist is Prof Seiichiro Watanabe of Nagoya University. His main interest is planet formation. Mission manager is Prof Makoto Yoshikawa of JAXA (ISAS and National Astronomical Observatory) P |
|
|
Jan 29 2013, 11:41 AM
Post
#66
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
On my way back from a gym session I walked into a library and amazingly found the March edition of this Scientific American!
There was a short article in it with some photos. Photos apart, what caught my eyes were: 1. There will be a small camera to televise the moment of crater creation. 2. There will be 4 reaction wheels (instead of 3 on Hayabusa), all supposedly trouble free because JAXA now know what went wrong with Hayabusa reaction wheels. 3. Improved (on Akatsuki's) chemical engines. 4. More powerful (+ 20%) ion engines. P |
|
|
Jan 29 2013, 12:27 PM
Post
#67
|
|
Forum Contributor Group: Members Posts: 1372 Joined: 8-February 04 From: North East Florida, USA. Member No.: 11 |
Is the reason for the reaction wheels failure available to the public ?
|
|
|
Jan 30 2013, 08:31 AM
Post
#68
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
Is the reason for the reaction wheels failure available to the public ? I have no idea and the article did not mention the reason. If there are JAXA reports on this issue I am sure there are reasons given there, but finding those reports is a big problem, I think. By the way, Hayabusa 2 will definitely go in 2014 as the funding has been secured. There have been many newspaper reports on this. P |
|
|
Feb 7 2013, 08:55 PM
Post
#69
|
|
Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 20-January 12 From: Florida Member No.: 6317 |
Ah, so the explosive device is not "fired" at the asteroid, so there would be no kick-back. The main vehicle starts moving toward the target, releases the impactor, and then moves away, leaving the impactor to continue on toward the asteroid.
|
|
|
Mar 19 2013, 08:41 AM
Post
#70
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
What follows is from MSN-Sankei newspaper dated 07:58 (local) on 18th March 2013.
JAXA announced that they will use part of the contributions from the general public (approx. JPY 20.000.000) for the flight of Hayabusa 2 in order to install an additional camera at the bottom of the main body so that sampling process can be viewed from the earth. P |
|
|
Mar 19 2013, 05:01 PM
Post
#71
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2085 Joined: 13-February 10 From: Ontario Member No.: 5221 |
Wow! Now that's dedication to PR!
Yes, it's not entirely unprecedented (Junocam, etc.), but seeing such support for outreach is very reassuring. |
|
|
Mar 19 2013, 06:55 PM
Post
#72
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2173 Joined: 28-December 04 From: Florida, USA Member No.: 132 |
Most impressive to see that outreach in this case is a two way street. Public donations used for a high public interest instrument. Similar to the Planetary Society's Mars Microphone. I have a feeling (hope) that the camera will be a more integrated instrument that will actually be used as opposed to the microphone which was more like a hitchhiker that mission planners were reluctant to turn on.
|
|
|
Mar 19 2013, 10:03 PM
Post
#73
|
|
Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8783 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Impressive outreach indeed, but let's be careful when analyzing the reasons why instruments are included or omitted. Integration is sometimes more art than science; designers are wary of add-ons, and rightly so.
-------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
|
|
|
Apr 8 2013, 03:03 AM
Post
#74
|
|
Senior Member Group: Admin Posts: 3108 Joined: 21-December 05 From: Canberra, Australia Member No.: 615 |
|
|
|
Apr 8 2013, 05:32 AM
Post
#75
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 184 Joined: 2-March 06 Member No.: 692 |
I love these send your name things. I can show support and almost be immortal. GO JAXA!
|
|
|
Apr 10 2013, 04:39 AM
Post
#76
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 540 Joined: 25-October 05 From: California Member No.: 535 |
You can now submit your name on the Japanese version of JAXA's Hayabusa 2 page:
http://153.122.7.196/form/ (Deadline: Juy 16 - 12:00 PM JST) The English version should be up on The Planetary Society's website this Saturday (April 13) -------------------- 2011 JPL Tweetup photos: http://www.rich-parno.com/aa_jpltweetup.html
http://human-spaceflight.blogspot.com |
|
|
Apr 16 2013, 12:36 AM
Post
#77
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 540 Joined: 25-October 05 From: California Member No.: 535 |
You can now submit your name on The Planetary Society's website:
http://www.planetary.org/get-involved/messages/hayabusa-2/ -------------------- 2011 JPL Tweetup photos: http://www.rich-parno.com/aa_jpltweetup.html
http://human-spaceflight.blogspot.com |
|
|
Apr 30 2013, 08:33 AM
Post
#78
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
I have checked with JAXA HP in English, but I could not find immediately if what follows is actually carried there. So, just in case, what follows is from Nihon Keizai Shimbun dated 23 April.
"JAXA are inviting 2 piggy-back interplanetary space probes: JAXA announced on 23 April that they will invite 2 piggy-backs to be launched with Hayabusa 2 on their H2A rocket. Invitation period is by the end of May and selection will be made at the end of June. 2 space probes of each less than 50 kg are invited. Hayabusa 2 itself will weigh 600 kg." This makes me think and wonder as follows. 1. Can anybody make proposals so quickly? 2. This must be just powdering operation and the infomation has been circulating within intimate circles, both domestic and intrernational, for a long time. P |
|
|
Apr 30 2013, 12:52 PM
Post
#79
|
|
Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 93 Joined: 21-January 13 Member No.: 6845 |
" 2 piggy-backs to be launched with Hayabusa 2 "
I thought the ATOM (Mars aero-capture mission ) would be one of those missions? I read something about it in 2012. |
|
|
Apr 30 2013, 05:00 PM
Post
#80
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1729 Joined: 3-August 06 From: 43° 35' 53" N 1° 26' 35" E Member No.: 1004 |
according to this presentation (undated but named "fall 2012")
QUOTE Mars aero-capture mission ATOM -> Delayed Phase-A study continues, but launch with Hayabusa-2 became difficult. |
|
|
Apr 30 2013, 07:01 PM
Post
#81
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 495 Joined: 12-February 12 Member No.: 6336 |
1. Can anybody make proposals so quickly? I honestly don't think so, just a proposal can take up to a year to get a heads up. Then they would have to build it. Even if some agency or university were sitting on one suitable unlaunched craft/probe, they would have to practically carry it out the door directly for intergation and testing. So it sound like a nice offer, though one without actual candidates, now that delays have created a vacant spot - perhaps even two. |
|
|
May 1 2013, 01:23 AM
Post
#82
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2085 Joined: 13-February 10 From: Ontario Member No.: 5221 |
Is it also too late to use those 50 kilos on Hayabusa 2 itself, somehow? Or is this offer specifically for other craft on the same launcher? I mean it would be a waste to just let an opportunity like this go.
|
|
|
May 1 2013, 03:16 AM
Post
#83
|
|
Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8783 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Sure, but it would be a risk to rush a development & integration effort with too little time for testing before the launch date. Let's see what they do.
-------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
|
|
|
May 1 2013, 09:54 AM
Post
#84
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1729 Joined: 3-August 06 From: 43° 35' 53" N 1° 26' 35" E Member No.: 1004 |
for more info on the Mars aerocapture demonstrator see this JAXA presentation
|
|
|
May 2 2013, 12:04 AM
Post
#85
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 706 Joined: 22-April 05 Member No.: 351 |
Aviation Week and Space Technology reports that Japan will be cutting back on its space plans and, "But former high-priority goals to promote environmental monitoring, human space activities and putting robots on the Moon are now much lower priorities and will have to fight for funding." I don't know how this will affect Mars plans. Hayabusa-type missions are apparently still planned.
-------------------- |
|
|
Dec 12 2013, 07:57 AM
Post
#86
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1729 Joined: 3-August 06 From: 43° 35' 53" N 1° 26' 35" E Member No.: 1004 |
Hayabusa 2 will be accompanied in solar orbit by two microspacecraft, PROCYON and Artsat 2 and possibly also by Shin'en 2.
The most interesting of the bunch is PROCYON which, among other things, will demonstrate imaging techniques during at least one but possibly up to three close flybys of small NEOs a presentation of the mission and spacecraft is available here |
|
|
Jan 31 2014, 08:18 AM
Post
#87
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1729 Joined: 3-August 06 From: 43° 35' 53" N 1° 26' 35" E Member No.: 1004 |
a rather detailed description of PROCYON (in Japanese) is available here
|
|
|
Apr 6 2014, 05:46 AM
Post
#88
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
Hayabusa 2 will be accompanied in solar orbit by two microspacecraft, PROCYON and Artsat 2 and possibly also by Shin'en 2. The most interesting of the bunch is PROCYON which, among other things, will demonstrate imaging techniques during at least one but possibly up to three close flybys of small NEOs a presentation of the mission and spacecraft is available here Re above I have just translated this article and the first few pages (up to page 5) are as follows. The rest can be uploaded within the next week, I think. (P) Contents of Presentation • Significance and possibility of hyper minitualisation in deep space exploration * Reference in Space Science and Probe Roadmap • What is hyper minitualisation? • Status of hyper minitualisation space probe industry • Mission possibilities in hyper minitualised deep space probes * PROCYON- 50kg class hyper minitualised deep space probe • Mission outline • Probe system outline • Development • Development schedule P-2 (continue from page 2) Significance in minitualisation and hyper minitualisation What follows are some of the remarks made in the Space Science Probe Roadmap. Here, Importance of minitualisation of satelliets and space probes is recognised. • with a view to realising low cost and high frequency space science missions using improved Epsilon rockets we should aim at minitualisation and improvements of satellites and space probes • improved Epsilon rockets should be able to send out small solar system probes more frequently... • future visions of space probes and satellite systems...through innovation, minitualisation, and weight reduction in probe architecture we should aim at more advanced and flexible missions P-3 •Objectives in minitualisation include frequent missions under budgetary and costing constraints. However, it does not mean "minitualisation=conpromise in sceince results (should not) ---> what should then we be doing? Hyper minitualisation=Innovation (diagram header) Horizontal axis: system scale and number of functions etc. Vertical axis: costs, weight, development length etc. horizontal dotted lines in red: limit of costs and weights etc. 3 character sets in square from top to bottom are: No innovation Innovation speed: low Innovation speed: high (Annotation along the dotted lines in black from LL to UR) more functional! more advanced missions! more... more... P-4 Annotation along the dotted lines in red from LL to UR innovation in minitualisation (such as introductionof highly advanced techniques) etc.) more advanced missions made possible! P-5 |
|
|
Apr 7 2014, 01:19 AM
Post
#89
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
a rather detailed description of PROCYON (in Japanese) is available here Second portion of the translation as follows. Page 5 to page 10. (P) Examples of innovation in hyper minitualisation (page header) similar accuracy in positional astronomy (characters to the right of left larger photo, above arrow) HIPPARCOS (ESA) >1ton, 1989 (left photo) Nano-JASMINE (Univ. Tokyo) 33kg, 2014 (right photo) "achieved mass reduction to 1/30 via progress and revolution in technology" (not at the expense of function or capability) P-5 Towards hyper mini satellites: Hodoyoshi project ・aiming at education/engineering experiments: learning from failures (first 4 lines in the top left yellow square as follows) ・unpractical S/N ratio and comms. capability etc. ・trial and error (time consuming at times) ・no standardisation - one product only (next 4 lines in the bottom left yellow square as follows) ・practical level capability and reliability ・development of small yet functional devices ・systematic developmental methodology (being sure of end products) ・standadizing on software and satellite components etc. (applicable to other uses) aiming at low costs and shorter development period P-6 (character sets below top right photo as follows) angular resolution of 30~1000m 10 kbps (character sets below bottom right photo as follows) angular resolution of 2.5~200m 100 Mbps (No need to translate page 7) (four character sets from top to bottom) Catalogue of onboard devices (Hodoyoshi project) Ultra minituare electric propulsion Radiation hardened ultra small onboard computer Ultra small attitude control devices (such as iW,CG,C,CQ P-8 (No need to translate page 9) Significance of ultra minitualisation in deep space probes: even lighter and even deeper (character set on the graph, top right) (figure: courtesy of ISAS) (characters along the solid lines from top to bottom) reinforcement LEO 3 ton class reinforcement LEO 2 ton class 4th stage (character set lower right at top as follows) 50kg class, Ultra small probes X 4 (character set lower right at bottom as follows) 50kg class, Ultra small probes, C3 approx.40 (Ceres) (and at the very bottom as follows) (C3:how much deeper can we throw into?) P-10 |
|
|
Apr 7 2014, 04:49 PM
Post
#90
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 3-May 12 From: Massachusetts, USA Member No.: 6392 |
Thank you very much for the translations!
|
|
|
Apr 7 2014, 11:05 PM
Post
#91
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
a rather detailed description of PROCYON (in Japanese) is available here Translation of pages 10 to 15. More will follow. P Significance of ultra minitualisation in deep space probes: even lighter and even deeper (character set on the graph, top right) (figure: courtesy of ISAS) (characters along the solid lines from top to bottom) reinforcement LEO 3 ton class reinforcement LEO 2 ton class 4th stage (character set lower right at top as follows) 50kg class, Ultra small probes X 4 (character set lower right at bottom as follows) 50kg class, Ultra small probes, C3 approx.40 (Ceres) (and at the very bottom as follows) (C3:how much deeper can we throw into?) P-10 Ultra small deep space probes - mission varieties (1) * Piggy back on larger space probes and missions – examples: IKAROS (on Akatsuki),PROCYON(on Hayabusa 2) – frequency is minimal, but offers precious opportunity despite the lack of merit arising from low cost and high frequency potential * Piggy back on GTO (geostationary transfer orbit) missions –small kick stage (approx. a few 100kg) added to the top of launcher is used to insert small probe into orbits outside gravity (C3>0) after main satellite insertion into GTO – after that the probe will move into its own mission orbit by EDVEGA etc. (electric propulsion as used in Hayabusa) P-11 Ultra small deep space probes - mission varieties (2) * single probe launch by low cost, medium rocket (Epsilon) – insertion into orbit which reaches ultra far astronomical object making use of its light weight (approx. 50kg) – conducting risky project as precursor to future medium to large missions * cluster of probes launched by medium, low cost rocket (Epsilon) –simultaneous launch of ultra light probes by a single rocket – insertion into far reaching orbit is not possible, but individual orbit manuevability can secure limited mission freedom and variation (--> leading to low cost and frequent deep space missions P-12 Technologies required for lutra small deep space probes (header) • electricity generation very far from Sun --> ultra light weight power generating system (above all photos) • highly efficient and small propulsion system for orbital manipulation (above middle two photos) • overall weight reduction in bus related devices >> (attitude control system, power system, computers etc.) (above bottom three photos) (and at the very bottom) Component technologies for ultra small deep space probes are becoming available P-13 Presentation contents • Possibility and significance of ultra small deep space probes • References made in space science and probing roadmap • What is meant by "Ultra small probes"? •Current status of ultra small probe industry • Mission varieties and realisability of ultra small deep space probes • PROCYON- 50kg class ultra small deep space probes • Mission outline • Outline of probe system • Development • Development schedule P-14 Outline of PROCYON mission (PRoximate Object Close flYby with Optical Navigation) Mission sequence Dec 2014: launch, followed by a series of various component engineering test missions Dec 2015: Earth swingby After Jan. 2016: Planetary flyby mission Outline of mission components 1. 50kg class ultra small deep space probe bus technology testing (nominal mission) (contents in bottom left square) a. orbit determination, comms., attitude control, temp. control, and power generation in deep space b. orbit manipulation in deep space by ultra small electric propulsion system 2. Verification of deep space probing technologies (contents in bottom right square) (Advanced mission: additional mission components) c. comms. by highly efficient X-band power amp. using GaN d. VLBI navigation in deep space e. flyby around asteroids using combined radio and optical wave navigation f. asteroid flyby in ultra proximity and at high velocity using line of sight tracking <Outline of ultra close, high velocity asteroid flyby> (explanation on the right handside picture of probe) Relative velocity in flyby > a few km/s Minimum approach distance a few 10km line of sight control Flyby at ultra close range and obtain high resolution pictures by mirror driving on board and line of sight tracking feedback of pictures End of P-15 |
|
|
Apr 8 2014, 05:13 AM
Post
#92
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1729 Joined: 3-August 06 From: 43° 35' 53" N 1° 26' 35" E Member No.: 1004 |
thank you Pandaneko, and welcome back!
|
|
|
Apr 8 2014, 10:33 PM
Post
#93
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
a rather detailed description of PROCYON (in Japanese) is available here More pages (18,19,20,22) to follow. P (No need to translate pages 16 and 17) System configuration Hodoyoshi satellite system is used for the main system components of power and EDHS/EAOCS. (Tuning and improvements for deep space mission will be conducted for PROCYON) ①Comms. system (ISAS) ②Propulsion system (Univ. Tokyo and ISAS) ③ Mission system (Univ. Tokyo, Meisei Univ, Rikkyo Univ) (optical camera for asteroid observation) (geo-corona imager) P-18 Ultra smal comms. system for deep space probes We are developping ultra small X-band comms. system which is compatible with other deep space probes such as Hayabusa Specs. of PROCYON communication system 目仕様 Frequency band is X, category B Uplink frequency: 7.1 [GHz] Downlink frequency: 8.4 [GHz] Coherent ratio: 749/880 Output power: larger than 15W Command bit rate: 15.625, 125 [bps], 1 [kbps] Telemetry bit rate: 8 [bps] 〜4 [kbps] Maximum communicable distance: larger than 2 [AU] Orbit determination: R&RR Grund stations: Usuda and Uchinoura P-19 HGA(PZ plane) MGA(MZ plane) LGA(PZ,MZ plane) Unified propulsion system of ion thruster and cold gas jets (what follows is the character strings inside top square) Unified propulsion system using Xe based electrical propulsion (small acceleration and high specific impulse) and cold gas jet system for attitude control (RW unloading)+ orbit conrol (acceleration) (middle table contents as follows) Probe total mass: 60 kg Xe mass: 2.5 kg MIPS specific impulse: 1200s MIPS propulsion: 300×10-6N CGJ specific impulse: 25s CGJ propulsion: 11×10-3N (below satellite picture, colours correspond) Ion thruster thrust direction CGJ is used together with RCS for orbit control (character string at very bottom) Ion thruster for Hodoyoshi satellite P-20 (No need to translate page 21) Mission System (Optical navigation and flyby camera) • Imaging system for high speed/ultra close flyby • Realise angular resolution even by the small satellite borne telescope required for optical navigation during close flyby of asteroid • Realise high speed changes in line of sight by controling the rotation of part of the telescope system (driving mechanism) through image feedback Optical system High speed line of sight changes by driving mirorr rotation →capable of tracking asteroid before and after closest approach (inside top right square) Optical system capable of observing objects as dim as magnitude 12 despite 50mm aperture and 150mm focal length (inside bottom right square) Driving mechanism capable of controling the rotational angle around optical axis of the telescope P-22 (end of pages 18, 19, 20, and 22) |
|
|
Apr 9 2014, 04:56 AM
Post
#94
|
|
Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8783 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Pandaneko, just wanted to thank you for yet another superb effort to help us English speakers understand yet another JAXA mission; it's very much appreciated!!!
-------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
|
|
|
Apr 10 2014, 11:16 AM
Post
#95
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
a rather detailed description of PROCYON (in Japanese) is available here What follows is the rest of my translation. P Development teams Joint project by JAXA (ISAS) and Tokyo University community aiming at entirely new form of deep space exploration (ultra small deep space probe) by bringing together knowhows (ultra small satellite technology/deep space probe technology) (System: Univ. Tokyo/ISAS) (Ground operation: ISAS) Propulsion system: Univ. Tokyo/ISAS SAP opening: Nihon Univ. Mission system: Meisei Univ./Univ. Tokyo Science instrument: Rikkyo Univ. Comms. : ISAS DH system: Tokyo Science Univ. P-23 Development schedule Flight model of each device is currently being manufactured in time for flight model integration in April 2014 Nearer events: System structure model/thermal model testing (mid Jan. to Feb.) Compatibility testing Usuda and Uchinoura ground stations (mid to end Feb.) (what follows is the translation of characters inside the chart) The character above 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 2 3 refers to fiscal 2013 and the numbers correspond to July (7), August, September up to March (3) The character above 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1112 refers to fiscal 2014 and the numbers correspond to April(4), May, up to December (12) (Hereafter the chart is regarded as a matrix and from left and from topwise:) (C1:R1) :system (C1:R2): device (C2:R1): design (C2:R2): tests (C2:R3): newly developped devices (C2:R4): devices already developped (C4,5,6:R1): system design (C5,6,7,8:R3): BBM/EM manufacturing/test (C8,9,10,11:R3): FM manufacturing (some devices) (C5,6,7,8,9:R4): FM manufacturing/environment test (some devices) (and finally, diagonally across the bulk of chart from top left to bottom righ) STM/TTM test Usuda/Uchinoura compatibility test prior compatibility test all devices integration test final overall test margin launch site work/loading launch (December 2014) P-24 Summary • Significance and possibility of ultra minitualisation of deep space probes – Minitualisation/ultra minitualisation is an important direction to take in order to carry out low cost and frequent science missions (as stated in Space Science Roadmap) – What is required is not a simple minitualisation of mission and system scales, thereby making compromises in the mission results – Ultra minitualised satellite industry has been active at innovation by introducing advanced technologies available in private industries (by improving on introduction methods), thereby making it possible to produce light weight, small, and low cost satellites with high capabilities – Other component technologies are increasingly becoming available in order to achieve ultra minitualisation of deep space probes – Epsilon+4th satge may be able to send ultra miniture probes into orbits of Mars and beyond re. If increased from 50kg to 100kg they are still sufficiently light for dual (tandem) probing missions. • PROCYON: 50kg class ultra small engineering test deep space probe – Verification of ultra small deep space probe bus system and ultra close and high speed flyby approach to asteroid – Collaboration between university teams and ISAS/JAX with a view to achieving new form of deep space exploration – Piggy back launch on Hayabusa 2 is expected in December 2014 P-25 |
|
|
Apr 10 2014, 11:19 AM
Post
#96
|
|
Senior Member Group: Admin Posts: 3108 Joined: 21-December 05 From: Canberra, Australia Member No.: 615 |
Fantastic work Pandaneko. Thank you so much for translating all that information.
|
|
|
Apr 10 2014, 10:10 PM
Post
#97
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
Hayabusa 2 will be accompanied in solar orbit by two microspacecraft, PROCYON and Artsat 2 and possibly also by Shin'en 2. The most interesting of the bunch is PROCYON which, among other things, will demonstrate imaging techniques during at least one but possibly up to three close flybys of small NEOs a presentation of the mission and spacecraft is available here Paolo, thanks again for this. Do we know anything more about Artsat 2. If 2 was there 1? What was it? Also, Is the launcher of Hayabusa 2 still going to be H2A? I am confused because I realised during the course of my translation that they may be using this Epsilon. As far as I know its first launch was some time last year and I am not too sure if it is reliable. Again, it is not that important, and I am only curiious. P |
|
|
Apr 11 2014, 05:26 AM
Post
#98
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1729 Joined: 3-August 06 From: 43° 35' 53" N 1° 26' 35" E Member No.: 1004 |
Paolo, thanks again for this. Do we know anything more about Artsat 2. If 2 was there 1? What was it? pandaneko, Artsat 1 was launched in February as a secondary payload in Earth orbit. they have a good Facebook page |
|
|
May 24 2014, 10:57 PM
Post
#99
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 817 Joined: 17-April 10 From: Kamakura, Japan Member No.: 5323 |
This really is just in case what follows has evaded the attention of colleagues so far.
I have come across an interesting short video describing activities for MASCOT. Its URL is as follows. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbLmmvki_Bo It is all German and yet it gives us an insight into the workings of this lander. Actually, if you come to think about it this is all the more interesting because with Hayabusa we had to imagine what the landing site looked like. However, MASCOT will give us actual images and I am already very exited about this prospect. P |
|
|
May 25 2014, 03:17 PM
Post
#100
|
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1088 Joined: 19-February 05 From: Close to Meudon Observatory in France Member No.: 172 |
Yes : thanks a lot Pandaneko for your translation. What an useful work !
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 13th May 2024 - 01:49 PM |
RULES AND GUIDELINES Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting. IMAGE COPYRIGHT |
OPINIONS AND MODERATION Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators. |
SUPPORT THE FORUM Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member. |