ATV un-manned supply ship, JulesVerne - ESA's AutoTransferVehicle |
ATV un-manned supply ship, JulesVerne - ESA's AutoTransferVehicle |
Feb 22 2008, 09:07 PM
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 124 Joined: 23-March 06 Member No.: 723 |
Jules Verne ATV Launch Approaching
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/...80211120639.htm |
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Feb 28 2008, 08:02 PM
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#2
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Yeah, I'm kind of pumped about it! Just out of curiosity, is ESA considering follow-on versions that might conceivably be crew-rated? (Guess that the Ariane V would also have to achieve this as well).
-------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Guest_PhilCo126_* |
Feb 28 2008, 08:13 PM
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#3
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Guests |
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Feb 28 2008, 10:08 PM
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
You know somebody's gotta be thinking about it, though. Hopefully after they get a few flights under their belt, they'll press on with the idea.
I'm not entirely comfortable with the fact that the ISS will have to rely solely on Soyuz for a substantial period until Orion is available (I just hate single-point vulnerabilities, is all). Jules Verne is clearly much closer to becoming a crew-rated vehicle, plus I'd love to see ESA take the plunge into manned spaceflight. -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Feb 29 2008, 04:10 PM
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#5
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Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 61 Joined: 17-September 05 From: Sweden Member No.: 499 |
I remember reading somewhere that ESA had considered it but decided to try to cooperate with the russians instead of building a spacecraft of their own. I'm not sure where I read it though, was quite some time ago so I could be wrong.
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Feb 29 2008, 04:18 PM
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#6
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
I'm betting that they want to establish a sound performance record with the unmanned version before pressing on with any other applications, which would be a very prudent, even conservative developmental strategy. IMHO, it's damn near irresistable to possess a pressurized space vehicle and not consider going all the way...
One fly in the ointment might be the level of effort needed to man-rate Ariane. IIRC, Jim from NSF.com stated awhile back that not even the Shuttle has ever truly achieved this, being allowed to fly on a series of engineering waivers. All that said, though, I'm sure that different agencies have different procedures & criteria. -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Feb 29 2008, 04:31 PM
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#7
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Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 2262 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Melbourne - Oz Member No.: 16 |
One fly in the ointment might be the level of effort needed to man-rate Ariane. IIRC Ariane 5 was initially was developed as a man-rated launch system to carry Hermes. So if you we ever going to man rate an existing rocket, Ariane 5 is probably easier than most. -------------------- |
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Feb 29 2008, 05:21 PM
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#8
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Special Cookie Group: Members Posts: 2168 Joined: 6-April 05 From: Sintra | Portugal Member No.: 228 |
Yeah, I'm kind of pumped about it! Just out of curiosity, is ESA considering follow-on versions that might conceivably be crew-rated? (Guess that the Ariane V would also have to achieve this as well). Crew-rated maybe not so soon but, according to John Ellwood, the developed technology for the automatic rendezvous and docking techniques, is an important contribute for a future sample return mission from Mars... -------------------- "Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, "If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Alan Poe |
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Feb 29 2008, 05:35 PM
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#9
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Nice interview, Rui!
Hmm...I dunno...Mr. Elwood sure used the word "manned" a lot, and pointed out that JV was designed to two-fault tolerance specs...definitely getting a vibe, here... -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Feb 29 2008, 05:53 PM
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#10
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Special Cookie Group: Members Posts: 2168 Joined: 6-April 05 From: Sintra | Portugal Member No.: 228 |
Nice interview, Rui! Hmm...I dunno...Mr. Elwood sure used the word "manned" a lot, and pointed out that JV was designed to two-fault tolerance specs...definitely getting a vibe, here... Not an interview Nicholas, Ellwood made all the work... Aren't you reading what you want to read? But I too trust vibes...this will be faster than we think... -------------------- "Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, "If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Alan Poe |
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Feb 29 2008, 06:07 PM
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#11
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Not an interview Nicholas, Ellwood made all the work... Aren't you reading what you want to read? Nice work nonetheless, and, yeah... ...in addition to vibes, I also believe in buzz! -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Guest_PhilCo126_* |
Feb 29 2008, 06:08 PM
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#12
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Guests |
Just imagine an escape tower ontop of such an ATV
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Feb 29 2008, 06:34 PM
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#13
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Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8784 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
It's a bit flat, isn't it? Gotta imagine that there's some sort of an aerodynamic front fairing, though; you could put a tower on easy enough.
What might be a bit more difficult is putting a heat shield on the reentry module (and beefing up the front end for reentry stress as well, probably also the ACS for deorbiting with extra mass unless you want to add an independent retro system). -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Mar 1 2008, 03:51 AM
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#14
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 3419 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Minneapolis, MN, USA Member No.: 15 |
JV strikes me as somewhat overengineered for a disposable one-flight vehicle, and somewhat underengineered for a prototype of a recoverable manned spacecraft.
It's a good foundation for the development of a manned vehicle -- but there are quite a few changes you'd want to make before adding a crew, I think. -the other Doug -------------------- “The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
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Mar 1 2008, 05:46 PM
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#15
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Special Cookie Group: Members Posts: 2168 Joined: 6-April 05 From: Sintra | Portugal Member No.: 228 |
Nice work nonetheless, and, yeah... ...in addition to vibes, I also believe in buzz! You want buzz?... Let me give you the closing words of Alain Thirkettle, ESA ISS Programme Manager, in his testimony to spacEurope, to be published Monday...: "...the necessary capabilities for elements of future human exploration transportation and living/working accommodation are available to Europe, and thus both ATV and Columbus are a crucial building blocks for the future plans of the Agency." What are these future plans Nicholas?... (did you get my e-mail?...) EDITED: Launch has been delayed 24 hours due to potential problem identified with the fitting of the grounding straps located in the separation system. -------------------- "Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, "If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Alan Poe |
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