Extricating Spirit, Digging out from Troy Options

[briv1016]

5 downsampled navcam frames from sol 2078 are down. Someone might want to make an animation.

[fredk]

Holy $%@#! Wheels are spinning!
Sol 2072:
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/re...00P1314R0M1.JPG
Sol 2078:
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/re...03P1304R0M1.JPG
Spirit

[Tesheiner]

5 downsampled navcam frames from sol 2078 are down. Someone might want to make an animation.

Here is it.

Originals: http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/navcam/2009-11-07/

I thought they were still dealing with the flash memory problems...

[Stu]

Go on girl, you can do it...

[centsworth_II]

I thought they were still dealing with the flash memory problems...

I guess Spirit can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Great to see those moving pictures!

[Tman]

Yikes! ...ok, keeping fingers crossed!

[ups]

Here we go...

[fredk]

I guess this is what Maxwell meant by his cryptic comment:

Squyres: "It's gonna be a long day in the jarosite mines today."

[alan]

Go Spirit Go

[SFJCody]

I guess this is what Maxwell meant by his cryptic comment:

Surely that must have been an Opportunity reference.

[centsworth_II]

Surely that must have been an Opportunity reference.

The jarosite reference doesn't necessarily narrow it down, but it seems like Oppy approaching yet another(!) mystery rock is just another day in Meridiani and not worthy of special comment by SS.

edit: Or, perhaps the comment is just in reference to the fact that for the first time in a long time both rovers will be moving. Or, SS says that all the time and Scott just decided to make note of it today. Such is the trouble with interpreting cryptic remarks (or cryptic postings of ordinary remarks).

[imipak]

Great to see motion at the first attempt, and hopefully encouraging for the outcome. ISTR at Purgatory progress was glacial for many days. I wonder if/when/how often further MI imaging of the possible contact rock underneath Spirit will be done. Perhaps they might not be needed at all..?

[Tesheiner]

I wonder if/when/how often further MI imaging of the possible contact rock underneath Spirit will be done. Perhaps they might not be needed at all..?

One mars bar that they will image it again right after this first move.

[sgendreau]

Here is it.

Come on, hon. Come on....

[imipak]

Animation of the left rear hazcams...

[Hungry4info]

*crosses fingers*

Please... please... get out of that crap!

Edit: What sol are these images from? I'm at http://marsrovers.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit.html , and I'm not seeing the images you guys are posting.

[Guest_Sunspot_*]

Edit: What sol are these images from? I'm at http://marsrovers.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit.html , and I'm not seeing the images you guys are posting.

Spirit Images http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/

Oppy Images: http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/

[fredk]

Here's a gamma-tweaked animation of the right rear hazcams from 2072 and 2078:

You can see the LR wheel has been steered more straight, and presumably driven as well. Can't see the RR wheel. Front hazcams show RF wheel was steered straight as well.

I also would expect underbelly MI imaging. And also pancam images of the middle wheels.

[nprev]

Go, baby, go!!! Good luck, MER team!

[Hungry4info]

Thanks, Sunspot. =)

Yeah, I'm sure they'll image the underneath.

[akuo]

Another momentous moment for the rovers. Good luck to RoverDriver and rest of the team!

[lyford]

I can't help but hear this in my mind while looking at the animated gifs....
Hot Rod

Go Spirit and thanks to the team for all the hard work leading up to these days!

[HughFromAlice]

Exciting to see at least some movement. It almost looks like we might be taking the forward option? From the data available it is hard to judge whether it is more probable that we will get out or not, but being an optimist I think we will eventually inch our way out in time to find a wintering place.

May interest some people ....... just posted a version 3 of the Sol 2002 (Aug21st) sunset movie on YouTube with the sun continuously tracking down to give a more realistic effect. Will do some final corrections/colour adjustments on a V4 soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZtWGy0XcCQ

or type into search:- mars august sunset v3

[fredk]

Maxwell tells us that this move only involved steering, not driving the wheels.

[Juramike]

But we're movin'! It's all good!

[serpens]

But we're movin'! It's all good!

But it looks as if the LR wheel sank further. Given Maxwell's indication that only steering was involved is the downwards movement really good?

[Ant103]

Yes, she moves ! Happy to see that

I think it miss the FHC anim between Sol 2078 and 2079. Done .

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[djellison]

is the downwards movement really good?

We far far FAR too early in the extraction process ( step one of dozens and dozens and dozens of steps ) to say if it's good or not.

But it HAS started, and that's reason to be happy.

If you're going to be negative every time any motion doesn't correlate with your expectation of how things should or shouldn't go, you're going to go very very mad, very very quickly.

[alan]

Downward movement when steering only would be expected as that's what happened when it was done previously (before they attempted a turn in place)

I recall roverdriver mentioned testing spinning the wheels while steering was tested to determine if it reduced the downward movement.

[fredk]

So RF and LR wheels were steered on 2078, and now LF and RR wheels steered on 2079. It's really hard to see what's happened with the RR, but if you compare the 2078 and 2079 images:
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/re...03P1304R0M1.JPG
http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/re...04P1314R0M1.JPG
the soil behind the RR has moved quite a bit, perhaps looking as if the RR was actually driven. But my guess is it was just steered like all the others.

This is definitely all good news - finally the extraction has begun!

[BrianL]

Given that we're already up near 1100 posts, perhaps time for a new thread to follow this process?

[imipak]

I don't remember seeing any estimates of how far back along her path Spirit needs to move to have all five working wheels on solid ground. Does the thin crust over the bright, dusty material extend further back than the visible piles of powder excavated by the left hand wheels?

And - forgive me if this has been answered, I've searched but not been found it - do we know what the pale material actually is? Silica or sulphate salts, or something else?

(Edit: Found CosmicRocker / Paolo :

http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...;p=142244"]http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...st&p=142244

...which doesn't shed much light )

[brellis]

do they have cameras on the practice rovers? it'd be neat to see the p.o.v. of what they're planning to do, and how the view compares with the real deal on Mars.

[elakdawalla]

Given that we're already up near 1100 posts, perhaps time for a new thread to follow this process?

Done

GO SPIRIT!!!

[erpol]

I'm a bit late, but I saw this continuation thread just now.
I only wanted to say:

It's a little ol' rover from Pa-sa-de-na...
Go Spirit go, Spirit go, Spirit go.

(cfr. Beach Boys mid '60)



Ciao,
Ermanno

[ustrax]

Ahh Spirit, you beautiful amazing girl...I want to hug you!
GO!

[briv1016]

Teleconference to be held on Thursday:
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2009/nov/H...ck_telecon.html

Audio stream should be available here:
http://www.nasa.gov/news/media/newsaudio/index.html


Also, the tracking site is back up.

[ups]

The server is going to lag with all the spinning wheel gifs.

[Hungry4info]

The server is going to lag with all the spinning wheel gifs.

Yeah isn't it great? the thread with the most spinning wheel gifs is for the rover that isn't going anywhere

[Guest_Oersted_*]

Eppur si muove!

[Greg Hullender]

Eppur si muove!

I'm still waiting to hear the inquisition's report.

--Greg :-)

[centsworth_II]

I thought they were still dealing with the flash memory problems...

I guess they are...

Date extrication starts isn't quite certain, but happening very soon. Want to fix "amnesia events" first if we can.
http://twitter.com/MarsRoverDriver

[Stu]

Scott's latest Tweet:

" On Nov 12, there will be a press conference on upcoming Spirit extrication. Expect news stories shortly after, everywhere. :-) "

[Hungry4info]

What time?

[Astro0]

What time? NASA will host a media teleconference at 1 p.m. EST on Thursday, Nov. 12, to discuss attempts to free the Mars rover Spirit from sandy soil where the venerable robot has been stuck for the past six months.

[JayB]

"Expect news stories shortly after, everywhere. :-) "

If it wasn't for the smiley at the end, that statement would make me very nervous.

[stevesliva]

It's a reasonable expectation that you will see headlines about NASA trying to rescue a "$300M rover" that has been "stuck for six months."

NASA and "problem" draws the press like flies on [a banana].

[briv1016]

$400 million.

[centsworth_II]

"Expect news stories shortly after, everywhere. :-) "

If it wasn't for the smiley at the end, that statement would make me very nervous.

That comment is for the very general public. I would be surprised if there is anything new to readers of the UMSF Spirit thread. It doesn't look like there will even have been any additional action (since the steering movements) taken by Spirit before the briefing.

[Tesheiner]

I would love to know what's behind the "backup plan" in this other tweet: Paolo, Ashley, & I talked w/Chris Voorhees, genius designer of MER's mobility system, today. Helped us re-eval one backup plan.

[centsworth_II]

I would love to know what's behind the "backup plan"....[/i]

I guess the backups are plans that didn't make the cut for primary.

[nprev]

I'm curious, too, though won't be surprised if there are several backup plans. Lots of lessons learned from TeeBee, I'm sure.

[Astro0]

MIs following the recent wheel moves.
Animation between sols 2076 and 2081.

[fredk]

I don't remember seeing any estimates of how far back along her path Spirit needs to move to have all five working wheels on solid ground. Does the thin crust over the bright, dusty material extend further back than the visible piles of powder excavated by the left hand wheels?

Presumably she needs to get away from the crater that she's dug into. And we finally have a map showing the outline of Scamander crater ("Scamander plains"), with the latest Spirit map update.

With the crater taking up a sizable stretch of the middle of West Valley, I wonder what the approach would be if we drove out of Troy forwards (northwards). Would they continue to VB/G east or west of Scamander?

[Tesheiner]

MIs following the recent wheel moves.
Animation between sols 2076 and 2081.

IMO, it is touching the underbelly. Actually, it's being dislodged by the rover's movement since there is a slight movement of the rock (clockwise orthogonal to the camera pointing).

[nprev]

Sure hope you're right, Eduardo. If that thing's at all mobile, it shouldn't be a factor in the extraction after all.

[climber]

With the crater taking up a sizable stretch of the middle of West Valley, I wonder what the approach would be if we drove out of Troy forwards (northwards). Would they continue to VB/G east or west of Scamander?

Now that we know of Scamander, we can see it... but we didn't before been stucked. I think I can see more crater-like features ahead in the 5.4Mb route map. Assuming Troy is "inside" a crater, I'll choose to drive on the "rims" of the craters to come whatever main direction will be selected.
This means will have to field prove that what we can see from MRO is what we actually can predict from Navcam & Pancam picts.
I'll be intersted to know if you see crater-like features ahead as I do.

[Tesheiner]

Sure hope you're right, Eduardo. If that thing's at all mobile, it shouldn't be a factor in the extraction after all.

To be fair, now I'm not so sure about it.
I see movement on that rock but it might be also an illusion due to the shadows or compression artifacts.

[fredk]

Yeah it looks to me like the perspective has changed a bit and everything under the rover has shifted over a bit, with belly rock staying in place relative to everything else. Hard to be sure though.

In terms of the press briefing, I don't think we've heard definitely what the primary extraction plan is. That would be something to listen for.

[climber]

What time? NASA will host a media teleconference at 1 p.m. EST on Thursday, Nov. 12, to discuss attempts to free the Mars rover Spirit from sandy soil where the venerable robot has been stuck for the past six months.

Any link to this since it'll be in about 15 mn?

Edited, here it is: http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2009/nov/H...ck_telecon.html

[Stu]

http://www.nasa.gov/news/media/newsaudio/index.html

[fredk]

Great new topographic map of Scamander Crater at the very bottom of the list of briefing images:
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/mer/news...el20091110.html

[sgendreau]

A synopsis of anything new would be much much appreciated by we who can't access at work.

Go, Spirit, go, Spirit, go Spirit go!

[climber]

Most single stricking picture of the conf:



Edited, sorry Fredk, same image as your link but can't remove it now.

[Stu]

Emily's Tweeting it...

"What mired Spirit: left wheels broke through duricrust covering soft-sand-filled crater. Right wheels outside crater. "

[briv1016]

Flash was successfully reformatted yesterday; first drive command is Monday/Tuesday.

[Stu]

Spirit MIGHT be stuck here for good...

Monday = drive attempt

Efforts to continue until Feb when there's a review...

Plan = follow tracks back out...

1st drive Mon: plan = 5m worth of wheel turns... commands sent Mon night/Tues a.m, data due back later Tuesday...

[Stu]

"Still a lot of science can be done at this location..."

"Ability to do crude seismometry..."

[PDP8E]

1st attempt: straighten out the wheels and then drive out in the ruts Spirit made on the drive in; start Late Monday / Early Tuesday (jpl time?), get info back: Tuesday

then take a day to see what is going on and re-plan...

Its going to be really exciting around here over the next week or two!

Cheers

[nprev]

Hmmm. That map of Scamander really says it all. They pretty much have to try backing out. Sliding downslope is not an option, it's a rover-sized sand trap.

Re the wheel slewing: Is this Paolo's "sidewinder mode" (rotating the wheels while moving them from side to side)?

[climber]

Assuming Troy is "inside" a crater, I'll choose to drive on the "rims" of the craters to come whatever main direction will be selected.

It's basicaly what Ray Ardvinson's saying at this time !!!

[ustrax]

What a Monday on the horizon...
Cross your fingers until you get cramps!

[fredk]

Some very interesting discussion of Belly Rock. One of the big concerns they have, which I hadn't heard before, was that the rock may get caught in one of a couple of notches or depressions on the belly. If it did, then presumably the rover would be stuck, if the rock was firmly embedded in the ground. They said the notches are a few cm in size, and that they are near the front edge of the belly. So that's another reason they want to drive forwards (northwards). If they backed up, the rock could get caught in one of the notches.

They also stressed they'll try to keep Belly Rock away from the rover centre of mass. But they didn't say where their MI imaging says the rock is now - closer to the front or the back. (Obviously near the back would be best.)

Other reasons for driving straight forwards are that going backwards would mean having to break through surface crust, so backtracking avoids that extra work. Also going backwards means climbing uphill.

[fredk]

One more bit of info (which also appeared in a new New Scientist article, was that with current dust levels, Spirit might just be able to survive another winter stuck in Troy. So another dust storm without any cleaning could do her in. Another good reason to get mobile.

[centsworth_II]

Good briefing, lots of new details.

I liked the description of Spirit sitting right on a boundary between the highest sulfate level material found by either rover under the left wheel and basaltic material under the right wheel. The sulfur material being the soft, light material on the crater (down slope) side of the rover. Also the vertical changes from the surface of the duricrust to lower in the crust to beneath the crust showing water processes that occurred since volcanic activity in the area ceased.

I don't remember the danger of the belly rock being caught in a engineering depression in the underbelly being brought up before. One reason for driving forward rather than backward. I think that depression is visible in the underbelly images to the left of the belly rock's tip.

The detailed description of what occurred in the last days before halting driving operations was interesting. I found it encouraging that the (middle?) wheel stall seems to have not reoccurred when that wheel was tested. Also, the extraction maneuver, straight forward, is a maneuver that was not previously tried when the rover first became mired. A fresh maneuver leaves room for fresh hope... for me. Also good is the rover was still making progress when the driving was halted and was not just spinning its wheels. The progress was, however, in the down slope direction which is no longer considered a good idea, which is why the wheels were straightened for a straight forward drive.
edit: To clarify, the rover was going backwards toward Von Brun when it stopped. So a forward drive will be heading back in the direction it came from.

My fantasy: The wheels catch traction on some buried rocks and Tuesday morning images show the rover popped out and looking back at Belly Rock.

[nprev]

Stories hitting Google News now; here's the Associated Press release, which usually serves as the root for derivative articles.

[ElkGroveDan]

Spirit landed on Mars with six working wheels but soon lost movement in its right front wheel.

Typical media getting it wrong whenever they can.

[climber]

Nasa comment regarding DM1 picture of today release was not much better (ok, probaly tiping mistakes)
"The red line tracks the 18.8 kilometers (11.7 miles) that NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity traveled from where it landed in January 2004 to its position 2,955 Martian days, or sols, later, on Nov. 4, 2009. The rover landed inside Eagle Crater and spent about half of its first year examining layers inside Victoria Crater before embarking on a long trek to the larger Victoria Crater, which is explored for two years."

[fredk]

Now that we have these great maps of Scamander Crater, I went back and had a look for it in some old anaglyphs posted on this forum. And bingo: there, in Ant's sol 1869 pancam anaglyph mosaic from this post, it is. Here's a crop with Scamander circled in white. Also I've circled in black the "rock garden" where we're currently sitting, with one side hanging over into the crater.

[Keatah]

Why not flap the solar panels and fly away??

[Greg Hullender]

Why not flap the solar panels and fly away??

Feel free. :-)

--Greg

[centsworth_II]

I'm wondering if the dark rectangle indicated by the arrow is the depression in Spirit's underbelly that they are concerned may catch on Belly Rock's tip. The forward drive, toward us as we view this image, is supposed to eliminate this possibility.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/mer/news...el20091110.html

[nprev]

Not to be denser than usual, but is anyone else getting terribly confused by the forward/back distinctions when talking about the extraction?

I propose establishing four standard reference terms: "rover-front", "rover-back", "rover-left", and "rover-right". Rover-front is the normal lead end of the vehicle where the IDD is mounted, and rover-back is obvious. Rover-left is the left side of the vehicle as viewed from above referenced to rover-front. Examples of useage: "Today Spirit moved 2m rover-back", "This MI image has rover-front facing the point of view", "Spirit experienced some slight rover-left slippage during today's drive".

Just a proposal, and in all probability there's already a perfectly good reference system that I'm not aware of.

[Astro0]

nprev, I know what you mean, but inevitably someone will abbreviate rover-front to RF and then were confused with wheel references like RF (right front) etc.

Spirit has been mostly driving 'backwards' for the past 3 years, so backwards is rear facing and forwards is front of vehicle (IDD end).

I just love acronyms of course, but I'd be happier if Spirit just G-O (got out!)

[nprev]

Good point, Astro0, and I actually thought about that after posting. How about MER-xxx? Then we'd have MF, MB, ML, & MR.

(Boy; I have no life, do I?)

[centsworth_II]

I like the fact that avoiding confusion forces the use of more descriptive language when describing a rover move.

Consider this a backlash against text message/tweeter speak.

[BrianL]

I'll suggest arm-ward as the rover forward direction. I'll let someone else suggest a description for the other direction.

[centsworth_II]

Armward ho!


This situation does have a "Back to the Future" vibe, or in this case, Forward to the Past.

[climber]

RF has a lot of traction here whatever RF means...

[Stu]

That's a fascinating anaglyph Fred - you can almost convince yourself you can see the crater as a depression, can't you?

I guess it could have been a lot worse; if Spirit had driven further in, and not just sank in on one side, I think the game would already be over.

[SteveM]

Good point, Astro0, and I actually thought about that after posting. How about MER-xxx? Then we'd have MF, MB, ML, & MR.

(Boy; I have no life, do I?)

Sailors long ago came up with names for vehicle-referenced directions: fore/forward and aft/astern, port and starboard. I've even heard port and starboard used for aircraft.

Steve M

[nprev]

Yeah, thought about nautical terminology as well, and that'd be fine, too.

Anything would be fine as long as there was a consensus & consistent application.

[fredk]

you can almost convince yourself you can see the crater as a depression, can't you?

I would say the crater is clearly visible - no convincing necessary! I was even able to match details of the size, shape, and topography with the contour map. Notice for example the "channel" running out of the crater to the NNW. (It shows up on the contour map as blue.) Look at Ant's original anaglyph to see it more clearly.

I guess it could have been a lot worse; if Spirit had driven further in, and not just sank in on one side, I think the game would already be over.

Exactly! I was thinking the same thing. Looking at those images, there's nothing (apart from the crater shape and hindsight) to suggest danger in the crater. I think the plan was to get over to the "sidewalk" beside HP, and that may have saved us from certain doom.

[Tman]

May interest some people ....... just posted a version 3 of the Sol 2002 (Aug21st) sunset movie on YouTube with the sun continuously tracking down to give a more realistic effect. Will do some final corrections/colour adjustments on a V4 soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZtWGy0XcCQ

Sorry of the late reply. That's a nice idea. The moving sun looks very realistic.

Beside the colour adjustements you could yet implement the local true time generating with http://www.greuti.ch/oppy/html/filenames_ltst.htm

[dshaffer]

Does anyone know where I can find an mp3 file of the Nov 12 teleconference?

[HughFromAlice]

colour adjustements ... local true time generating

Thanks Peter - good ideas and also going to do a few more things for v4. A sort of learning experiment!!! Did it away from home under time pressure and didn't have your v. useful corrected time page bookmarked on my favourites. But I have bookmarked it right now .

Currently working on another Oppy navcam 'panorama' - Sol 2058. They are a real challenge and great fun to do.

[JayB]

"@marsroverdriver Showtime! #FreeSpirit 3 minutes ago from Twitterrific"

[Guest_Sunspot_*]

We might see the first images at exploratorium in the next hour then.

[elakdawalla]

IIRC at the press briefing they said the commands would be executed late Monday evening, Pasadena time -- or maybe that was when the downlink would happen. Perhaps "Showtime" referred to the uplink? Mars24 tells me it's now only 08:20 at Gusev, so they wouldn't be driving yet, right?

Edit: Blerg, I misread Mar24. As I write this it is indeed late evening Spirit time, 19:42. Sorry to add to the confusion.

[centsworth_II]

We might see the first images at exploratorium in the next hour then.

The commands go up tonight, the pictures come down early Tuesday morning. I'm guessing this is all California time. Right now, Spirit time is early evening, so the rover still has a full night's rest ahead before the big day on Mars.